New to 110v brewing : Grainfather or new Unibrau V3?

[augiedoggy]

Since this is version 3 of Brau Supply's setup, and not a lower-cost entry level system, I'm going to trust that they put it through the paces to make sure there are no issues with boil/heating. Especially considering that the previous versions used 2 elements and they went with one here.

Ok I'll bite. Im not sure how a cheaper quality and lower cost stc1000 based controller could be considered and upgrade as the most expensive thing on the v3 is the $100 pump from what I see or possibly the modified steamer basket in the low cost generic chinese pot ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8137137#post8137137) .... The ezboil 2 element based system was superior in multiple ways to this. If im wrong im open to hearing exactly How this is superior and why? Because it costs more? The solid sided grain bucket with the false bottom is nice but I just dont see anything in its construction that warrants the cost on such an economically built system myself. Just pointing out what im seeing. 1650w of power in a wider 10 gallon non insulated kettle is not an upgrade over a single 2000w or two 1500w elements no matter how much one charges for it.

 

[cheesebach]

Ok I'll bite. Im not sure how a cheaper quality and lower cost stc1000 based controller could be considered and upgrade as the most expensive thing on the v3 is the $100 pump from what I see or possibly the modified steamer basket in the low cost generic chinese pot ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=8137137#post8137137) .... The ezboil 2 element based system was superior in multiple ways to this. If im wrong im open to hearing exactly How this is superior and why? Because it costs more? The solid sided grain bucket with the false bottom is nice but I just dont see anything in its construction that warrants the cost on such an economically built system myself. Just pointing out what im seeing. 1650w of power in a wider 10 gallon non insulated kettle is not an upgrade over a single 2000w or two 1500w elements no matter how much one charges for it.

Yep - there's good opportunity available for someone to step in now and offer something similar to the Brau Supply V2, since they're no longer available. I expect the margins are quite a bit higher on this new V3 system. For now, I'll most likely be looking into going through the effort of building my own system sometime next year, since the Brau Supply V2 was the only pre-built system there's nothing else currently available to fill that gap.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yep - there's good opportunity available for someone to step in now and offer something similar to the Brau Supply V2, since they're no longer available. I expect the margins are quite a bit higher on this new V3 system. For now, I'll most likely be looking into going through the effort of building my own system sometime next year, since the Brau Supply V2 was the only pre-built system there's nothing else currently available to fill that gap.

Doesnt high gravity, brew boss and many others make a version of the same thing?

 

[cheesebach]

Doesnt high gravity, brew boss and many others make a version of the same thing?

Similar, but there are important differences (at least for my wants/needs):

1) Controller - The Brau Supply V2 had a simple, clean EZboil controller with a small footprint. IIRC, the High Gravity has a bulky PID and the brew boss is also bulky and software controlled. I'd like something that I can easily setup and put away for a brew day rather than having a dedicated cart/stand taking up floor space all the time. The previous Brau Supply would seemingly have been the best for this due to the small, simple controller, quality fittings, and the convenient way the small pump could be connected directly to the output from the kettle.

2) Power - Brau Supply was 2x120V heating elements, whereas High Gravity and BrewBoss are both 240V (or possible 20A 120V on the High Gravity). The Brau Supply V2 seems the most flexible for batch sizes up to 6 gallons for this reason.

3) Basket - Brau Supply V2 had a stainless mesh mash basket. The others are both false bottom and bag in the 5G batch size offerings. The bags basically require a pulley system for draining, whereas the mash basket could just be set on top of the kettle while coming up to a boil. You could even add a sparge for high gravity beers easily with this type of setup, whereas you'd have to do a dunk sparge in another vessel to do this with a bag.

Granted, all of these things could be addressed with some modification, but the Brau Supply V2 already came with these things for the same price or less. Unfortunately, the new Brau Supply system took a significant downgrade in departments #1 & #2

 

[DevilsCups]

Ok I'll bite...

Not sure what you're "biting at" here. I never said it was a superior system. I'm just saying that they seem confident that it will be fine.

 

[jturman35]

As a new brewer the V3 looked quite attractive despite the price tag. I like the concept, but like mentioned above what do you get for $1200? Is the controller just an Inkbird?

I may just build my own system and buy a controller.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not sure what you're "biting at" here. I never said it was a superior system. I'm just saying that they seem confident that it will be fine.

Sorry but to me you kind of implied just that with the statement
"Since this is version 3 of Brau Supply's setup, and not a lower-cost entry level system"

 

[augiedoggy]

As a new brewer the V3 looked quite attractive despite the price tag. I like the concept, but like mentioned above what do you get for $1200? Is the controller just an Inkbird?

I may just build my own system and buy a controller.

Thats what im saying... the brains of a $1200 biab "system" is just one of these with possibly custom firmware and SSR like alpha omegas free firmware for stc1000 units like this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-ST...hash=item25c8f4932f:m:m-KPIkpuwrZl-HwtKmKPh3w

The older ezboil controller was vastly superior in function and features.

 

[augiedoggy]

Similar, but there are important differences (at least for my wants/needs):

1) Controller - The Brau Supply V2 had a simple, clean EZboil controller with a small footprint. IIRC, the High Gravity has a bulky PID and the brew boss is also bulky and software controlled. I'd like something that I can easily setup and put away for a brew day rather than having a dedicated cart/stand taking up floor space all the time. The previous Brau Supply would seemingly have been the best for this due to the small, simple controller, quality fittings, and the convenient way the small pump could be connected directly to the output from the kettle.

2) Power - Brau Supply was 2x120V heating elements, whereas High Gravity and BrewBoss are both 240V (or possible 20A 120V on the High Gravity). The Brau Supply V2 seems the most flexible for batch sizes up to 6 gallons for this reason.

3) Basket - Brau Supply V2 had a stainless mesh mash basket. The others are both false bottom and bag in the 5G batch size offerings. The bags basically require a pulley system for draining, whereas the mash basket could just be set on top of the kettle while coming up to a boil. You could even add a sparge for high gravity beers easily with this type of setup, whereas you'd have to do a dunk sparge in another vessel to do this with a bag.

Granted, all of these things could be addressed with some modification, but the Brau Supply V2 already came with these things for the same price or less. Unfortunately, the new Brau Supply system took a significant downgrade in departments #1 & #2

You can order the custom built baskets on aliexpress they start and like $35 shipped... Or use the bayou classic steamer setup with a bag in the steamer basket.

Doesnt the robobrew and mashand boil work the same way too? those can be bought for like $300 shipped.

 

[cheesebach]

You can order the custom built baskets on aliexpress they start and like $35 shipped... Or use the bayou classic steamer setup with a bag in the steamer basket.

Doesnt the robobrew and mashand boil work the same way too? those can be bought for like $300 shipped.

There's still the same issue with power in any of the available 5gal batch eBIAB systems - the Brau Supply V2 was the only one I'm aware of that offered a 2x1600W configuration.

I haven't check aliexpress to see what they're offering for that price, but for the stainless steel custom mash baskets I've seen people ordering from Arborfab and the like, they're typically starting around $200. I've seen too many reports of mashes getting stuck and resulting in scorching wort and/or burning out the element when recirculating with a bag and one of those bayou-type steamer baskets to have confidence in going that route.

To me, the robobrew and mash and boil have the same limitations/drawbacks of the Grainfather - they're all propriety parts with a built in pump and element, so you could be looking at a much longer and more expensive repair process if one of those parts break outside of warranty. That, plus they're again limited to 1600W and designed for a sparge. Not having the ability to do no-sparge for a 5gal batch up to around 1.065 OG is a deal breaker for me.

 

[ch19]

You can order the custom built baskets on aliexpress they start and like $35 shipped.

Hey Augiedoggy, do you have any links to the AliExpress baskets? Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

There's still the same issue with power in any of the available 5gal batch eBIAB systems - the Brau Supply V2 was the only one I'm aware of that offered a 2x1600W configuration.

I haven't check aliexpress to see what they're offering for that price, but for the stainless steel custom mash baskets I've seen people ordering from Arborfab and the like, they're typically starting around $200. I've seen too many reports of mashes getting stuck and resulting in scorching wort and/or burning out the element when recirculating with a bag and one of those bayou-type steamer baskets to have confidence in going that route.

To me, the robobrew and mash and boil have the same limitations/drawbacks of the Grainfather - they're all propriety parts with a built in pump and element, so you could be looking at a much longer and more expensive repair process if one of those parts break outside of warranty. That, plus they're again limited to 1600W and designed for a sparge. Not having the ability to do no-sparge for a 5gal batch up to around 1.065 OG is a deal breaker for me.

brewhardware.com sells a prebuilt dual 1600w element modified inkbird controller for about $100.
EDIT** I was mistaken see below.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hey Augiedoggy, do you have any links to the AliExpress baskets? Cheers!

There are a number of sellers who sell these and in the past they were under $40 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hom...id=1caa973e-372e-4181-8f9f-00d69a5409b7&tpp=1

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hom...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000015.44.6f7727d9b34leR

 

[TexasWine]

brewhardware.com sells a prebuilt dual 1600w element modified inkbird controller for about $100.

Actually, for now he's just selling the modification with a second toggle switch to run a pump off the alarm outlet. At this time it will not run two elements.

 

[augiedoggy]

Actually, for now he's just selling the modification with a second toggle switch to run a pump off the alarm outlet. At this time it will not run two elements.

Good to know.. I thought he mentioned he swapping out the ssr with a dual one to run a second so incorrectly assumed it was also rated for the same 15 amps as the other outlet. But I also didnt think about the 30a outlet and power cord needed for the main power for that setup.
Even without actual temp control for the supplemental second element it will work fine since you would want one on 100% when boiling and thats the only time it think one would really want the second element.

 

[TexasWine]

Good to know.. I thought he mentioned he swapping out the ssr with a dual one to run a second so incorrectly assumed it was also rated for the same 15 amps as the other outlet.

No, you're correct in that he did mention swapping out the ssr with a dual one. I don't remember what thread though. It's just that he's not currently offering them on his website.

I'm assuming he did the switcheroo for his own use, or maybe a proof of concept for something he'll sell in the future. I've already hit him up about converting one for me

 

[Bobby_M]

Right, just messing around at the moment. It needed a second input supply cable of course and an ssr swap. My concern is the heat buildup. Needs a sink and that would demand wall mounting using standoffs to make room.

 

[augiedoggy]

Right, just messing around at the moment. It needed a second input supply cable of course and an ssr swap. My concern is the heat buildup. Needs a sink and that would demand wall mounting using standoffs to make room.

How difficult would it be to mount a heat sink externally? I imagine this would require cutting a hole in the box which would be somewhat labor intensive when doing many.

I think even just having a second switched 15 amp capable element plug that doesnt even really have to be pid controlled would be ideal for many hoping to brew 5-10 gallons with one of these... IMO at that point its easy just to run a separate cord from another circuit but many people want the "cool factor" of controlling it all from one box I think.

 

[portdawg66]

I am in the exact same position. My wife has given me the green light to proceed with whatever system I decide on. That decision has come down to either the Grainfather or the Unibrau V3. So here are the major differences that are driving my ability to decide...

Grainfather: Solid system with a ton of user reference available (YouTube, BLOGs, etc.). The "Connect" system is a significant benefit... allowing download of a myriad of recipes both via Grainfather's Recipe Site, as well as BrewSmith. Ability to mash with a high grain bill.

Unibrau V3: Modular design. High quality "brew system" hardware. Plate chiller. Ability to mash with a high grain bill.

So truth be told, both systems are great choices... any input on this process would be greatly appreciated.

On a side note; Unibrau V3 is about to start shipping any day now!

 

[enormous13]

I just don't see how Steven can justify the markup to the $1,200 price tag on that new Unibrau system. The controller is obviously inferior to the prior versions he's offered, and when compared to the GF Connect it's night and day with the whole Bluetooth/Web Connectivity aspect.

I see he upgraded the pump from those little brown pumps, but that's all of $50. The new basket is interesting with how it seats in the pot and then hangs from the ledge when draining, but a few stainless hooks achieve the same thing with any basket.

Considering what else is on the market, and their price points, I think Unibrau has priced themselves too high by about 25%. And if you're willing to DIY, then the price is easily double your costs.

 

[cheesebach]

I just don't see how Steven can justify the markup to the $1,200 price tag on that new Unibrau system. The controller is obviously inferior to the prior versions he's offered, and when compared to the GF Connect it's night and day with the whole Bluetooth/Web Connectivity aspect.

I see he upgraded the pump from those little brown pumps, but that's all of $50. The new basket is interesting with how it seats in the pot and then hangs from the ledge when draining, but a few stainless hooks achieve the same thing with any basket.

Considering what else is on the market, and their price points, I think Unibrau has priced themselves too high by about 25%. And if you're willing to DIY, then the price is easily double your costs.

I have pretty much the same thoughts on this exactly. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on the V2 system in a 2x120V dual element configuration with the EZboil controller back in August when those options disappeared and the new V3 system was announced. Aside from the price increase, it seems this update was kind of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. The new basket does look very appealing (and I would have been OK with the higher price point), but when I noticed the downgrade in the controller and lack of dual element support, it kind of turned me off to the whole thing. Even if someone were to spend the extra to add the second element option that they're offering now, you'd still have to drill the hole for the extra probe yourself or move the temperature sensor to the pump output as they suggest.

The Grainfather certainly seems like a better value at this point, but having done BIAB no-sparge for the past 2 years, I don't think I want to add a sparge back to my process for standard gravity beers.

For now, I'm following other build threads going on and trying to decide what exactly i'd want in doing my own DIY, but kinda still hoping someone comes out with a better full-volume mash prebuilt system, since i'd personally rather be making beer than rigging up a whole system from scratch.

 

[jlinz]

The sparge is so easy on one of these, it will make your head spin.

 

[Bobby_M]

How difficult would it be to mount a heat sink externally? I imagine this would require cutting a hole in the box which would be somewhat labor intensive when doing many.

I think even just having a second switched 15 amp capable element plug that doesnt even really have to be pid controlled would be ideal for many hoping to brew 5-10 gallons with one of these... IMO at that point its easy just to run a separate cord from another circuit but many people want the "cool factor" of controlling it all from one box I think.

Since the back panel is aluminum, an external sink can be screwed on with compound smeared on. It would then need standoffs on the mount holes and it would be best to wall mount to encourage updraft of the heat.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think about 5% of grainfather, mashnboil and robobrew users think the included element is adequate. The other 95% don't. I can't fathom how all the manufacturers assumed most Americans won't go through any effort to gain access to higher amperage circuits for the sake of brewing. All these units should be 2250w optional.

 

[BrunDog]

No replacement for displacement! Wait... that’s for cars... but you get the gist!

 

[enormous13]

I'm hoping they can re-engineer one of these all-in-one kits for 220/240v use, I feel like that'd really appease a lot of the folks that're on the fence about these units. Since these come from an Australian firm, I'd imagine the units they sell domestically have to run on 220v, wouldn't they?

 

[jlinz]

I think about 5% of grainfather, mashnboil and robobrew users think the included element is adequate. The other 95% don't. I can't fathom how all the manufacturers assumed most Americans won't go through any effort to gain access to higher amperage circuits for the sake of brewing. All these units should be 2250w optional.

I respectfully doubt your figures being a member of the robobrew usa thread. A few complain but most think the boil is adequate.

On another note, the fascination with boil strength is pretty American. I need a BIG boil in M'erica! In reality, a super vigorous boil is just not necessary.

 

[cheesebach]

I respectfully doubt your figures being a member of the robobrew usa thread. A few complain but most think the boil is adequate.

On another note, the fascination with boil strength is pretty American. I need a BIG boil in M'erica! In reality, a super vigorous boil is just not necessary.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that many or maybe even most users of those systems are satisfied with the power of those systems. I also agree that 120v is enough to maintain a good boil. However, (at least for me) the ramp times to mash temp and then to boil temp are more important considerations. I know there’s the option to set up the night before and set the timer to be ready in the morning, but the extra 20-30 minutes of downtime in getting up to boil is still a factor for me, since I’m often pressed for time.

 

[jlinz]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that many or maybe even most users of those systems are satisfied with the power of those systems. I also agree that 120v is enough to maintain a good boil. However, (at least for me) the ramp times to mash temp and then to boil temp are more important considerations. I know there’s the option to set up the night before and set the timer to be ready in the morning, but the extra 20-30 minutes of downtime in getting up to boil is still a factor for me, since I’m often pressed for time.

It's true, there is a lag. The timer feature is good and cuts time off the front end, but you do have to wait for like 20 minutes after mash to get up to boil.

 

[enormous13]

I'll give Bobby the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was referring to ramp up times, both from start to mash and then from mash out to boil. The whole point of these all-in-one units is convenience, so when it adds another hour to your brew day because of the smaller elements, it kind of negates some of that convenience factor for some people (not all). If they could offer a unit that could match the ramp up times of the DIY systems then I think they'd really be in business.