NEW EZboil unit with automated step mashing and boiling

[Smellyglove]

I got it yesterday. I've been working 14hr days the last days so I haven't been able to fully test it though.

However. I installed it in my panel and did a get-to-know-it test, doing four steps, held for 10 minutes each, with 10C increments.

It worked flawlessly out of the box. No need to autotune or anything. Plug it in and let it play.

But. There is one thing I didn't understand, it's not mentioned in the updated user manual, if it is I didn't see it.

After reaching next set temp, it was holding that temp for several minutes, before it beeped to tell me that the timer for that step has started. So sort of a delay on the timer for when it starts to count. I mailed Auberins about this, but I don't expect an answer until monday.
That function, if it actually is a function was pretty handy though. Since the herms is up to the next temp pretty fast, but the mash tun will naturally lag behind a bit, It didn't start the next step timer until my mash tun was close to the actual set temp. I do no sparge, so I use way more water than those who sparge, so I guess with a normal sparge setup the mash temp would be pretty much on par with the set temp, when the timer for the next step would start.
If it's possible to tune this "delay", that would be great. As pr now I understood that I need to add +5 minutes to each mash step since the EZ started the timer for each step about five minutes before my mash tun was actually at the set temp. This test was done with plain water though. An actually mash will most likely differ somewhat.

And, I used a Sestos before, and tuned it to overshoot slightly during the ramps, just to get the temp in the mash tun up faster, or else the herms would take it easy for the last few degrees, so the mash tun would take several minutes to get to set temp from something like 2C from desired temp..if that made any sense. Out of the box the EZ was spot on, never overshot, so to get the mash tun up to set temp took longer than the Sestos. I have asked them this too, if it's possible to make it overshoot the ramps, slightliy, then let it stabilize. If there's no setting for it it's possible to switch the algorithm to a straight PID-algorithm, where I guess I can tune it to overshoot by a degree or two during ramps.

Easy to program, that push and turn knob is excellent comparing to just buttons as the Sestos have. Although I must say I could wish the display was nicer, it seems a bit "pixelated", but no biggie. The extra functions I asked for are really needed, for me at least.

All in all, very happy with the first test. And it doesn't feed my fake OCD as it doesn't have decimals either

 

[aeviaanah]

I got it yesterday. I've been working 14hr days the last days so I haven't been able to fully test it though.

However. I installed it in my panel and did a get-to-know-it test, doing four steps, held for 10 minutes each, with 10C increments.

It worked flawlessly out of the box. No need to autotune or anything. Plug it in and let it play.

But. There is one thing I didn't understand, it's not mentioned in the updated user manual, if it is I didn't see it.

After reaching next set temp, it was holding that temp for several minutes, before it beeped to tell me that the timer for that step has started. So sort of a delay on the timer for when it starts to count. I mailed Auberins about this, but I don't expect an answer until monday.
That function, if it actually is a function was pretty handy though. Since the herms is up to the next temp pretty fast, but the mash tun will naturally lag behind a bit, It didn't start the next step timer until my mash tun was close to the actual set temp. I do no sparge, so I use way more water than those who sparge, so I guess with a normal sparge setup the mash temp would be pretty much on par with the set temp, when the timer for the next step would start.
If it's possible to tune this "delay", that would be great. As pr now I understood that I need to add +5 minutes to each mash step since the EZ started the timer for each step about five minutes before my mash tun was actually at the set temp. This test was done with plain water though. An actually mash will most likely differ somewhat.

And, I used a Sestos before, and tuned it to overshoot slightly during the ramps, just to get the temp in the mash tun up faster, or else the herms would take it easy for the last few degrees, so the mash tun would take several minutes to get to set temp from something like 2C from desired temp..if that made any sense. Out of the box the EZ was spot on, never overshot, so to get the mash tun up to set temp took longer than the Sestos. I have asked them this too, if it's possible to make it overshoot the ramps, slightliy, then let it stabilize. If there's no setting for it it's possible to switch the algorithm to a straight PID-algorithm, where I guess I can tune it to overshoot by a degree or two during ramps.

Easy to program, that push and turn knob is excellent comparing to just buttons as the Sestos have. Although I must say I could wish the display was nicer, it seems a bit "pixelated", but no biggie. The extra functions I asked for are really needed, for me at least.

All in all, very happy with the first test. And it doesn't feed my fake OCD as it doesn't have decimals either

Check out the tSP value in mash settings. Basically if you want timer to start at 155 for a programmed step of 156 you would set this to 1. If you want timer to start at 156 set to 0.

 

[Smellyglove]

Check out the tSP value in mash settings. Basically if you want timer to start at 155 for a programmed step of 156 you would set this to 1. If you want timer to start at 156 set to 0.

Yes, i know about that setting. But the "issue" was that it SP and SV were the same for several minutes before it started the timer for that step. Just like "Oh, I'm at the programmed desired temperature, I'll just wait a few minutes before I start the timer".

It took like two minutes to ramp the herms itself up to the set temp, but the timer did not kick in after several minutes later. And just so there's no confusion, the EZ measures at the HERMS.

The thing is I need an answer from Auberins about this delay-time. Is it random? Is it fixed? So I can dial in my programming of the unit.

 

[aeviaanah]

Yes, i know about that setting. But the "issue" was that it SP and SV were the same for several minutes before it started the timer for that step. Just like "Oh, I'm at the programmed desired temperature, I'll just wait a few minutes before I start the timer".

It took like two minutes to ramp the herms itself up to the set temp, but the timer did not kick in after several minutes later. And just so there's no confusion, the EZ measures at the HERMS.

The thing is I need an answer from Auberins about this delay-time. Is it random? Is it fixed? So I can dial in my programming of the unit.

My unit does not do that in mash. The only other thing that is similar would be in boil mode. Ad setting is alarm duration in seconds, It will put the controller on hold between steps for the value entered here.

Possibly it is oScr or AttE? I haven't messed with these yet.

 

[Smellyglove]

My unit does not do that in mash. The only other thing that is similar would be in boil mode. Ad setting is alarm duration in seconds, It will put the controller on hold between steps for the value entered here.

Possibly it is oScr or AttE? I haven't messed with these yet.

It doesn't sound like its those parameters either. It did not overshoot and held the temp perfectly. And the ad setting is for boil mode, and it didnt beep the entire time either.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm currently doing a second test-run, and this time it behaves like expected. And, don't know why I didn't try this.. but the oScr setting can be a negative value, meaning I can overshoot my ramps, in theory. Just started testing with negative oScr now.

 

[aeviaanah]

How'd the test go?

 

[Smellyglove]

How'd the test go?

I've only used this for step mashing. Not in boil mode so this is about step mashing-mode.

I've ran through two more tests. Flawlessly. The issues I had earlier was either me programming the unit wrong (but honestly I don't know how that could happen as it's a pretty easy unit to program, but it's a still just a computer executing the input it gets). Or it just had a bad day.. I also wish it was possible to save mashing programmes, so you could just load them for different brews, but the memory in the unit is full, so I guess that will not happen.

I wish I could overshoot the ramps with just one long cycle near the set-temp, as I tuned the Sestos to do, and then stabilize at the set temp. To get the mash tun just a tad quicker up to set-temp when it's just those few degrees left, those degrees are pretty slow. I'm talking about 1-1.5C in the mash tun.

This little bugger is stable as hell. No overshoots, no deviation or anything, without any tuning, out of the box, a good algorithm. But it does play it safe, almost no cycles near set point, just a very few and long ones, which brings it up to where it should be, but it takes a little more time than a tightly tuned PID, which would fire long cycles closer to the set point and then burst-fire to hit its mark. You can't go wrong with this one, safe but slower when it's closing in on its set temperature.

It's easy to program, the push-and-turn-potmeter makes menu navigation and programming is a walk in the park comparing to just buttons (like the sestos had, just buttons). You can configure it to start a program with the press of a button, or select a mode where it starts the program the instant it gets powered up. If you need to fix something gone wrong so you need to stop it it's just a press of a button to pause the program, and one press to resume it. It doesn't trigger my made up brewing OCD since it has no decimals. The internal calculations are at 0.1, but the display only shows whole degrees.

For people doing eBIAB with elements in the kettle and recirculation I believe this must be the buy of the year, as it can also control boil. I don't do eBIAB myself though. I use one mash tun and one boil kettle no-sparge. You can also trigger relays with it (AFAIK) which are linked to the mash steps. This is nothing I need pr now, so I haven't looked into those functions. You can also make it beep in boil mode to remind you to add hops, chiller, nutes or whatever at different times.

Edit: And I must say. The customer care is way up there. It's Blichmann and Auberins of the ones I've been in contact with which really make you feel like you've bought an investment. As Blichmann said, "We got your back". I've been on the mail with Auberins the last two days, and couldn't be happier with the support.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Here is my ebiab setup, still have some work to do before she's ready for commissioning.

Bayou 44qt kettle
DSPR310 EZboil controller
2x40A SSRs
2x1500W SS elements
KegKing MkII wort pump
3pc SS ball valves
SS cam locks
DIY copper recirculating CFC chiller, elevated for complete drainage
DIY chrome steel rolling stand with black iron pipe gantry for hoisting grain bag
Cereal killer malt mill

Its all self contained so I can store it in the laundry room when not in use, and roll it into the kitchen for brew day. The bottom shelf has enough height to accommodate the brew pot and all the gear leaving the 24"x 24" top shelf clear for fermenters.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'd like to add that after brewing with it for the first time, I'd really like to be able to calibrate it with a 0.1 resolution. As it is now my mash tun is about 0.5C off. (depending on grist size, I tend to adjust the HERMS RTD after grist size, to hit target temp in the MT) And it's only possible to calibrate it with whole degree steps.

 

[Smellyglove]

It seems like they are on it when it comes to the 0.1 degree resolution for calibrating. I'm awaiting answer from them.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I think I'll just wait till ur done reinventing the goddamned thing before sending mine in for an update. This is kind of a $#!t show BTW, and I'm not impressed with Auber that they are revising the firmware based on opinions from one single glove, smelly or otherwise.

As long as Auber are happily expending resources fulfilling wishlists, (seemingly before said person even bought the unit), speaking as a consumer who bought one of the first units I would like to see a youtube video tutorial on its use.

 

[Smellyglove]

I feel they are just listening to their users, which is great. Maybe I'm the only one who has contacted them voicing my opinions about how I feel it should be for our use.. This unit is pretty new. I know what at least I want, which is basically some more versatilty, which doesn't make the unit worse, just more versatile, which in the end will make it cover more of our different needs. You'll get more bang for the buck..

For instance I'm an European user, and don't want to use it in Fahrenheit to get the desired resolution, to have it calibrated correctly (you can't calibrate using F, which has a higher resolution than C, and then switch over to C for use). Six steps with the AI algorithm was in mho to little, since you couldn't HOLD the first step, which you can now. It takes four extra buttonpresses now to program it, but we have two more steps.. And that it needed user input to start excluded those of us who start the brewery on a timer.

I must say that I'm impressed that they do listen to their users, even if I might be the only one.. You only have one more option in the system-menu now, comparing to the first version..Which is if it shall start a program on powerup, or on user input. I'm only asking for extended functions of those which are already in there (except for the start on powerup, which is a new function). If you're happy with it the way it is then there's no reason to send it in to get the FW updated. But different users different needs, not everybody needs to use all the functions, but they are available, which can't be a bad thing.

 

[aeviaanah]

I feel they are just listening to their users, which is great. Maybe I'm the only one who has contacted them voicing my opinions about how I feel it should be for our use.. This unit is pretty new. I know what at least I want, which is basically some more versatilty, which doesn't make the unit worse, just more versatile, which in the end will make it cover more of our different needs. You'll get more bang for the buck..

For instance I'm an European user, and don't want to use it in Fahrenheit to get the desired resolution, to have it calibrated correctly (you can't calibrate using F, which has a higher resolution than C, and then switch over to C for use). Six steps with the AI algorithm was in mho to little, since you couldn't HOLD the first step, which you can now. It takes four extra buttonpresses now to program it, but we have two more steps.. And that it needed user input to start excluded those of us who start the brewery on a timer.

I must say that I'm impressed that they do listen to their users, even if I might be the only one.. You only have one more option in the system-menu now, comparing to the first version..Which is if it shall start a program on powerup, or on user input. I'm only asking for extended functions of those which are already in there (except for the start on powerup, which is a new function). If you're happy with it the way it is then there's no reason to send it in to get the FW updated. But different users different needs, not everybody needs to use all the functions, but they are available, which can't be a bad thing.

I'm familiar with the revisions to firmware in DSPRa and b. I'm glad these updates were released. Thanks!

What other ideas do you have in mind? I'd like alarm duration for mash mode to use as a reminder much like the alarm duration for boil. Thoughts?

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm familiar with the revisions to firmware in DSPRa and b. I'm glad these updates were released. Thanks!

What other ideas do you have in mind? I'd like alarm duration for mash mode to use as a reminder much like the alarm duration for boil. Thoughts?

What would you use an alarm during mashing for? The controller beeps when ending and starting each step, and also on program end.

 

[aeviaanah]

I would set alarm type to beep so I can hear it if far away. Letting me know the next step

 

[Smellyglove]

I would set alarm type to beep so I can hear it if far away. Letting me know the next step

I honestly can't see why this would be needed. It beeps so you can hear it when you're in the same room. But if you're "far away", why would you need to hear the beeps? If you're far away then you probably use the unit for what it was made to to, set it and forget it. You know it will do as programmed, so why would you need to hear the beeps from far away.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I would set alarm type to beep so I can hear it if far away. Letting me know the next step

Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't you use the relay outputs to activate a loud buzzer? Then it could be anything from a doorbell chime to a klaxon.:rockin:

 

[Smellyglove]

Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't you use the relay outputs to activate a loud buzzer? Then it could be anything from a doorbell chime to a klaxon.:rockin:

That's possible. The relays follow the steps in mashing mode.

 

[aeviaanah]

I get the fact that it won't be beneficial to some. It could remind of FWH addition, or in my case when the control switches from HLT to MT and back. This happens twice during the course of my mash.

I'm going to end up using the relays with a programmable timer to limit how long the buzzer stays on.

 

[Smellyglove]

C-revision is out.

More stable temp control (pretty stable down to 0.1 degree F now, comparing to about 0.3 before)

Possible to calibrate with a 0.1 resolution (display still shows resolution in whole degrees when in use)

The oScr function now works as before if you enter a positive value (to negate potential overshoots), but if you enter a negative value you force overshoots. If you set it to -2 it will overshoot by 2 degrees, just to let it come back to set temp and stabilize itself there.
I asked about this function to combat the extemely slow last one degree (in C) rise to set temp as the algorithm just was too careful with overshooting. So instead of baking in an overshoot into the algorithm this setting has taken the place of the negative values in oScr which did nothing (noticable) before, as an option.

This function should work as intended in all settings, if you have a HEX-coil in HLT, a compact HEX or if you do straight BIAB with a heat source directly firing into you mash.

EO bug in mash mode has also been taken care of. I noticed it didn't execute in the A/B revision.

Since I'm in europe, I ordered a new one, because of the cost sending it back to the states isn't worth it. Americans can send theirs in for a FW upgrade.

It's taken a lot of emails back and forth but kudos to Auber for implementing these functions, tuning the code to get a more stable temp and giving us a pretty powerful yet simple to use tool for mashing.

 

[brewasaurus55]

I have just finished a BIAB control panel utilizing the DSPR310 controller:

I brew 2 1/2 gallon (10 l) batches in my kitchen so it 120 volt. I still need to wire up my 1500 watt heating element before I can do some performance testing.

Auber Instruments has not just been listening to Smellyglove. The A revision to the firmware resulted, at least in part, from discussions I had with them. There was a considerable back and forth between Auber and myself before they implemented any changes. They truly seemed interested in listening to customers to make their product even better.

 

[swimIan]

I don't think any company would listen to one or two customers.

 

[TexasWine]

I don't think any company would listen to one or two customers.

My understanding is that they're a small company based out of Alpharetta, Georgia, which is just north of Atlanta. You might be surprised.

 

[swimIan]

My understanding is that they're a small company based out of Alpharetta, Georgia, which is just north of Atlanta. You might be surprised.

True

 

[Smellyglove]

Anyone know the difference between C and D revision?

 

[TexasWine]

Anyone know the difference between C and D revision?

I just ordered the D yesterday, but I couldn't tell you the differences.

I do have one question for y'all. I noticed tSp is a little different on this unit compared to the dspr120. On the 120 the tSp is the temperature at which the timer starts. For the 310 the tSp is described as a temperature difference in the following manner.

Note 3: Mashing timer starting temperature: tSP This parameter is defined as the temperature difference between the measured temperature (PV) and set temperature (SV), or deviation from the set point. Its default value is 1 degree. It means when program finished current step and start to heating at the maximum output power set by parameter mOUT (see note 5-2) to reach the next step, the timer will not start to count until the temperature is one degree below the set temperature of the next step. When the controller finished current step, the controller will make two short beeps, and another two short beeps after a second. Then, the controller will turn the heater to full power to reach the next set point.

So the question is, is what's in the manual accurate? Is tSp really a temp difference and not an absolute number?

 

[aeviaanah]

Here is a change log for new release info

https://www.auberinc.com/images/Manual/DSPR310_changelog.pdf

 

[aeviaanah]

I just ordered the D yesterday, but I couldn't tell you the differences.

I do have one question for y'all. I noticed tSp is a little different on this unit compared to the dspr120. On the 120 the tSp is the temperature at which the timer starts. For the 310 the tSp is described as a temperature difference in the following manner.

Note 3: Mashing timer starting temperature: tSP This parameter is defined as the temperature difference between the measured temperature (PV) and set temperature (SV), or deviation from the set point. Its default value is 1 degree. It means when program finished current step and start to heating at the maximum output power set by parameter mOUT (see note 5-2) to reach the next step, the timer will not start to count until the temperature is one degree below the set temperature of the next step. When the controller finished current step, the controller will make two short beeps, and another two short beeps after a second. Then, the controller will turn the heater to full power to reach the next set point.

So the question is, is what's in the manual accurate? Is tSp really a temp difference and not an absolute number?

Tsp is an option to have the timer start prematurely. So if your set point is 152 and your tsp is 1 degree, the timer will start at 151.

 

[Smellyglove]

I just ordered the D yesterday, but I couldn't tell you the differences.

I do have one question for y'all. I noticed tSp is a little different on this unit compared to the dspr120. On the 120 the tSp is the temperature at which the timer starts. For the 310 the tSp is described as a temperature difference in the following manner.

Note 3: Mashing timer starting temperature: tSP This parameter is defined as the temperature difference between the measured temperature (PV) and set temperature (SV), or deviation from the set point. Its default value is 1 degree. It means when program finished current step and start to heating at the maximum output power set by parameter mOUT (see note 5-2) to reach the next step, the timer will not start to count until the temperature is one degree below the set temperature of the next step. When the controller finished current step, the controller will make two short beeps, and another two short beeps after a second. Then, the controller will turn the heater to full power to reach the next set point.

So the question is, is what's in the manual accurate? Is tSp really a temp difference and not an absolute number?

I don't understand how it could be an absolute number. I haven't tried this myself as the first thing I did was to set this value to 0. If you're doing a herms or rims you'll have a delay either way, (between the HEX and mash tun) so no point in adding a further -1degree delay, as I see it. But as far as I've understood it it should start the timer at -1 degree relative to SV.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I have the 'A' version. Works great, I'm in the middle of boiling a batch of kölsch right now. Boil timers for hop additions are harder to setup/use so I'm making do with a timer app. The step mashing is super easy to use and makes this unit a solid gold investment.

 

[aeviaanah]

I don't understand how it could be an absolute number. I haven't tried this myself as the first thing I did was to set this value to 0. If you're doing a herms or rims you'll have a delay either way, (between the HEX and mash tun) so no point in adding a further -1degree delay, as I see it. But as far as I've understood it it should start the timer at -1 degree relative to SV.

Smelly, do you ever add a whirlpool addition? Say 175F for 30min?

 

[Smellyglove]

Smelly, do you ever add a whirlpool addition? Say 175F for 30min?

For hoppy beers I always use WP additions, but much lower than at 175F. But I don't use any built in alarms in either brewing software or the EZ. I just set a timer on my phone as I find it much easier to do.

 

[aeviaanah]

How are you cooling and maintaining whirlpool addition temperature?

 

[TexasWine]

I don't understand how it could be an absolute number. I haven't tried this myself as the first thing I did was to set this value to 0. If you're doing a herms or rims you'll have a delay either way, (between the HEX and mash tun) so no point in adding a further -1degree delay, as I see it. But as far as I've understood it it should start the timer at -1 degree relative to SV.

So it sounds like the DSPR120 and 310 are definitely deferent in regards to tSP. An excerpt from the 120 manual is below. The initial setting for tSP is 151 degrees Fahrenheit.

"When timer function is enabled, the timer counting will be started by timer start temperature, tSP. When temperature reaches timer start temperature, the timerstarts to count."

So if I'm thinking about tSP with the 310 correctly, if a positive tSP is utilized it must be combined with a negative oScr. Otherwise the temperature may never overshoot and the timer will never start.

Which brings up another question. For anyone with a HERMs, have you used any of these settings to prevent the timer from starting before the grain bed temp has reached the set point? I'd rather not overshoot my desired rest temp, but oScr seems like the best option to artificially induce a delay. I wished there was a setting that allowed the timer to be started on a timed delay after reaching the set point.

 

[augiedoggy]

So it sounds like the DSPR120 and 310 are definitely deferent in regards to tSP. An excerpt from the 120 manual is below. The initial setting for tSP is 151 degrees Fahrenheit.

"When timer function is enabled, the timer counting will be started by timer start temperature, tSP. When temperature reaches timer start temperature, the timerstarts to count."

So if I'm thinking about tSP with the 310 correctly, if a positive tSP is utilized it must be combined with a negative oScr. Otherwise the temperature may never overshoot and the timer will never start.

Which brings up another question. For anyone with a HERMs, have you used any of these settings to prevent the timer from starting before the grain bed temp has reached the set point? I'd rather not overshoot my desired rest temp, but oScr seems like the best option to artificially induce a delay. I wished there was a setting that allowed the timer to be started on a timed delay after reaching the set point.

I may be misunderstanding you but when I used to use my 310 for my boil kettle, I would set my temp to stop at 207. I also set my alarm to go off alarm at 207 and the timer to start at the same time and boil for 1 hour then shut down... It did in fact started fine when the setpoint was reached and did not need to overshoot? At that point I would go to manual pwm control and babysit it through the boilover stage. I also set the relay output to start my separate hop addition timer when the boil was reached

 

[TexasWine]

I may be misunderstanding you but when I used to use my 310 for my boil kettle, I would set my temp to stop at 207. I also set my alarm to go off alarm at 207 and the timer to start at the same time and boil for 1 hour then shut down... It did in fact started fine when the setpoint was reached and did not need to overshoot? At that point I would go to manual pwm control and babysit it through the boilover stage. I also set the relay output to start my separate hop addition timer when the boil was reached

I think what you're describing is btSP, which is the boiling timer set temp. That works exactly as you describe.

What I'm talking about is tSP, which is a parameter in mash mode.

Make sense?

 

[BeardedBrews]

What I'm talking about is tSP, which is a parameter in mash mode.

I'm interested (and hopeful) to hear the results when you get your unit in for testing. In general I'm thrilled with the 120's performance, but having a menu defined temperature as the start condition for the mash timer is clunky. The delta to setpoint approach is much more logical in my opinion and would be a great firmware addition to the original units

One other thing I've been curious about for those using step mashing, do you rely entirely on the re-circulation to move the grain bed temperature, or do you also give a quick stir at some point during the ramp? If just recirculating it seems like 10-20 minutes of the step could be consumed simply waiting for the temperature to equalize.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think what you're describing is btSP, which is the boiling timer set temp. That works exactly as you describe.

What I'm talking about is tSP, which is a parameter in mash mode.

Make sense?

I m pretty sure I used mine in mash mode until I switched it to boil mode once 207 was reached.I remember having to toggle between the two modes every time I used it. Perhaps I didnt use it correctly. I could be mistaken though since its been a while since I switched to brucontrol.

 

[TexasWine]

I m pretty sure I used mine in mash mode until I switched it to boil mode once 207 was reached.I remember having to toggle between the two modes every time I used it. Perhaps I didnt use it correctly. I could be mistaken though since its been a while since I switched to brucontrol.

Well, I never thought to use it that way, but sounds like it works great!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you'd just dial in a higher mash temp, let it ride up and hold, then when you were ready to attend to the boil you'd switch it over to manual and baby sit it. Sound right?