New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

[TNGabe]

are you of the opinion that wheat in the grist affects banana flavors?

it's my understanding that banana comes from the yeast. the reason why wheat beers often have banana flavors is because of the hefeweizen yeast produces banana esters, not because of the wheat. you could brew a 100% barley beer using hefe yeast and still get bananas.

It's a combination of the yeast and the mash schedule. A ferulic rest (if I recall correctly) can increase taster perception of banana flavors. Not saying that's what's going on here, just an example of how mash temp plays into this.

 

[samwhois]

I think that wheat malt can create some awfully interesting flavors with any yeast. Especially at warmer temps. I certainly understand that the hefe-yeast is the main contributor to this flavor but a high percentage of wheat gives any brew a bready and perhaps some banana flavor. Especially at high fermentation temps.

 

[samwhois]

I think that a yeasty sample with this particular yeast strain could be perceived as having some banana esters.

 

[samwhois]

I just think that a yeasty sample with this particular yeast strain could be perceived as having some banana like esters

 

[duckmanco]

I pitched one rehydrated pack into 63F (5.5 gal @ 1.045) wort and set the fridge to allow the beer to free rise to 67F at which I'll likely hold it there for 36 hours and then let it free rise to whenever it wants.

I saw activity this morning roughly 17 hours after pitching.

Finally tasted mine after a couple days in keg after force carbing, and even after finishing at 1.003, this is great stuff and goes down like nothing. My experience with Saisons is limited but I'd say mine with this yeast is too clean and would have benefited greatly from an increase in temp early in the ferment, BUT as it stands now ester wise (closer to wyeast 3787) it's still an awesome drinking beer that I will gladly rebrew with this yeast again. All in all, very happy with the dry saison yeast.

It's got me wondering what it would be like in your typical Belgian ales like dubbels, tripel or quad if the temp was kept restrained. Bet it'd be worth trying.

 

[F250]

Finally tasted mine after a couple days in keg after force carbing, and even after finishing at 1.003, this is great stuff and goes down like nothing. My experience with Saisons is limited but I'd say mine with this yeast is too clean and would have benefited greatly from an increase in temp early in the ferment, BUT as it stands now ester wise (closer to wyeast 3787) it's still an awesome drinking beer that I will gladly rebrew with this yeast again. All in all, very happy with the dry saison yeast.

It's got me wondering what it would be like in your typical Belgian ales like dubbels, tripel or quad if the temp was kept restrained. Bet it'd be worth trying.

Very cool. Do you mind posting your recipe?

Rick

 

[duckmanco]

Very cool. Do you mind posting your recipe?

Rick

Not at all....

5.5 gal
1.040-1.043OG
85% effic (my efficiency is through the roof on low gravity beers, so keep % the same but adjust for your system. Also, I brew for 5.5 post boil.)
FG 1.003 (wasn't looking for this, but oh well)

4.5lb Belgian Pils
2.75 Vienna
12 oz Torrified wheat
Mash @ 150
60 min boil

.25 oz zythos @ 60"
.5 oz zythos @ 10"
2 oz zythos at 2"

I'd ferment warmer but still pitch cool (63-65) and probably let it free rise to 72 and either hold there or let it free rise completely with no temp control -> all depends on how much yeast derived character you want. The zythos, believe it or not plays. That hop to me, comes off with a lemon line sprite like character and then drops off into an herbal note. Another poster on here, bierhaus15 recommended I try zythos in a hoppy saison and the way this beer is tasting right now, I think he was right.

 

[El_Cabrito]

My experience with Saisons is limited but I'd say mine with this yeast is too clean and would have benefited greatly from an increase in temp early in the ferment...

what roughly was your temp schedule? i am looking to use this soon (i hope) and i usually let the temps take off for saison (high 70s °F to 80s) early rather than later.

 

[duckmanco]

what roughly was your temp schedule? i am looking to use this soon (i hope) and i usually let the temps take off for saison (high 70s °F to 80s) early rather than later.

I pitched at 63F and set the fridge to allow the beer to free rise to 67f (probably should have let it go to 70-72f) and then at 30 hours in, and for arbitrary reasons I bumped the temp to allow the beer to ferment at 69f. After the 3rd day I pulled it from the fridge to let it free rise to wherever it wanted, which it probably didn't get north of 75f, and by then it was done anyway I'm sure. After a sh*tty day at work I sampled some more tonight and although its a little cleaner than it should be, it's still a nice drinking beer.

 

[El_Cabrito]

nice. i am heading to the LHBS in a few and plan to p/u a few packs. probably brew a rye saison tomorrow nite if all goes well. still debating belle saision or the olde standby wlp566.

 

[Dr. Francois]

I'm only reporting unsubstantiated rumors, but I heard at LHBS that T-58 and Belle Saison are progeny of the same strain, reported to be the strain from Saison DuPonte.

Again, not evidence, but repeated rumors from a very smart guy who works at LHBS.

 

[F250]

Not at all....

5.5 gal
1.040-1.043OG
85% effic (my efficiency is through the roof on low gravity beers, so keep % the same but adjust for your system. Also, I brew for 5.5 post boil.)
FG 1.003 (wasn't looking for this, but oh well)

4.5lb Belgian Pils
2.75 Vienna
12 oz Torrified wheat
Mash @ 150
60 min boil

.25 oz zythos @ 60"
.5 oz zythos @ 10"
2 oz zythos at 2"

I'd ferment warmer but still pitch cool (63-65) and probably let it free rise to 72 and either hold there or let it free rise completely with no temp control -> all depends on how much yeast derived character you want. The zythos, believe it or not plays. That hop to me, comes off with a lemon line sprite like character and then drops off into an herbal note. Another poster on here, bierhaus15 recommended I try zythos in a hoppy saison and the way this beer is tasting right now, I think he was right.

Nice and thanks.

Imma going to give this a try. I wonder how well it would work if I cooled to 62, pitched, gave it 48 hours at 60 ambient and then moved into my office where it's 72-75 most of the time?

Also, I've never used Zythos hops, they do sound good tho.

Rick

 

[duckmanco]

^^^ if it were my batch I'd do one of the following based on your ferment temp options:

1. More yeast derived flavors - I'd pitch at 62-63 and put it in your 60 ambient spot for 24 hours then move to your office where it's 72 and let it rip

2. Less funk - pitch at 62 and keep it in your 60 ambient spot, but even then the thermal activity of fermentation will bump the temp north of 60f. Most say 5-8 degrees warmer, so you'd likely at some point in the ferment hit 70-75 anyway.

Either way I bet you'd get great results. I'd pick option 1 as my beer is pretty clean. Also, although the Zythos are great in this recipe, if you'd prefer to keep it traditional, then you could certainly go with the typical Goldings (EKG or styrian) or Saaz. I'm trying to kill off a lb. of Zythos, so for me it was worth the try.

 

[F250]

Duckman, I think I'll give option #1 a try first. I really like the saisons that have that yeasty orange taste, I think you have to get into the 80's to get that.

I'm still thinking about hops the French hop sounds nice along with some styrians. We'll see.

Rick

 

[atonofhops]

If I may interject.....I have been a long time user of Danstar I have used all of their yeasts(execpt the lager) I have used them with and with out making starters and never used more than 1 pack in any brew even my moneter 14% Imperial Milk Stout. I see no reason to buy 2 packs of this yeast I just purchased 3 packs of the saison yeast for evaluation. I have done the same for all of the danstar yeasts. I will make 3 5 gallon beers(same grain bill or extract) I will pitch dry yeast in one the rehydrated yeast in the next and last I will make a starter. I keep notes on fermentation progression. With the others time seems to be the only factor the starters worked to fg much faster. There has been only a minor diffrence in flavors and aromas between all 3 methods. I beleive the diffrences would not be noticible to the average person. I will proceed with my evaluations asap and report back when done.

All 3 batches are done bottled and carbonated.
I used only one package each for 2 batches and the third got a good healthy starter. The 2 batches started and finished at the same time about 5 days I let it go to 10 days then placed in a secondary. The starter batch had airlock activity in about an hour and the batch was done in 2 days. The starter batch finished at 1.002 the other batches finished at 1.004 all batches had an og of 1.054. The flavor from the starter batch is slightly higher in spicey and estery flavors, to me but 3 of my friends could not tell the diffrence in any of them. I like this yeast and will be using it as a replacement for liquid yeast for my belgian brews.

 

[sathrovarr]

so what temperature is the best for this yeast?

 

[atonofhops]

IMO I think 70* is just fine some folks I have read let the beer heat up and get more activity at around 80*

 

[nshalev]

IMO I think 70* is just fine some folks I have read let the beer heat up and get more activity at around 80*

can you comment about the rumors of this being the same as T58?

 

[tennesseean_87]

I have used t-58 and it hasn't attenuated that high for me (which is fine--I mashed accordingly). My friend used Belle in an extract Belgian IPA (with some simple sugar) and it dropped down to 1.002. I don't think T-58 would do that, but I have very limited experience.

 

[Spartangreen]

So in the end, was 1 pack of the yeast fine?
I used this yeast to brew a Belgian Pale Ale yesterday, and I got to reading today that 2 packets are needed (per the packet). OG=1.052

 

[Chamuco]

I usually go with 3724 in the low 90s for my saisons and decided to give the belle a try this time. I pitched 1 packet on a 1.070 (oops....was aiming for 062) 5 gallon wort yesterday around 5pm at 80*. Going nuts this morning (6am) at 83* and smells wonderful. Krausen was already reaching the airlock so I switched to blowoff and left for work. I plan to keep it around 80* for a week and then I'll check og and post the results.

 

[beergolf]

I brewed a Saison using it last week. I put the fermenter in a cooler with an aquarium heater. Set it to 68. the next morning upped it to 72, that evening upped it to 74. Next morning to 76 and that evening to 80. Been sitting at 80 since then. In a couple of weeks I should know what it will taste like.

Really curious how it will taste. Very simple recipe to let the yeast show through. It would be great to have a dry option for saisons.

 

[xhcadamx]

Anybody who has used this yeast care to talk about what kind of flavors out of this yeast? I want to use it but based on what others have posted about attenuation and temps, it looks like it is a dried version of 3711.

 

[mb82]

Anybody who has used this yeast care to talk about what kind of flavors out of this yeast? I want to use it but based on what others have posted about attenuation and temps, it looks like it is a dried version of 3711.

I am also wondering.

 

[craigevo]

I think the description 3711 on the wyeast site describes what I detect from the belle. Spicy, pepper and citrus.

The citrus is lemony, orangey. The pepper is white rather than black I would say, sounds awful to have pepper in a beer, but actually its quite subtle and nice. theres some other spices but less obvious what they are and they are not so strong.

I think the pepper accumulates on the tongue and makes the taste change from start to finish of a single glass. It gets spicier - ie hotter.

My saison finished at 1005 which is about 89% attenuation. It is dry, but not as dry (or tart) as I was expecting. There is some mouthfeel left in the beer which I also wasnt expecting ( I mashed at 64 degrees C which is quite low and I didnt use any dextrin malt). Again, I seem to be parroting the wyeast descriptors as I have just re-read them and see they also describe " unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel". I have not used the 3711 so cannot say if they are the same, but the descriptors are strikingly similar to what I taste.

It took 5 days to get to final gravity on a rising temp from 17 to 25 degrees C over 5 days.

it is very drinkable after only a few days in the keg. I am extremely happy with this yeast and will order some more.

I haven't done a saison before and haven't drunk many either so I'm no expert on this style.

 

[kaboom133]

For those interested in trying this yeast, I just ordered some from the hops shack in Ohio http://www.hopsshack.com, and it's a little cheaper than northern brewer. I know it's not a lot, but I figured it's worth mention.

They also ship faster to me than NB, but that may be because I live in PA.

 

[Montanaandy]

I ended up pitching a pack of this into a batch that I started with 3724 that stalled at 1.050 (OG was 1.098). Normally 3711 is my go-to when 3724 occasionally acts stupid and stalls but I had this on hand so decided to give it a try. It will be interesting to see how it compares to 3711.

 

[Chamuco]

I usually go with 3724 in the low 90s for my saisons and decided to give the belle a try this time. I pitched 1 packet on a 1.070 (oops....was aiming for 062) 5 gallon wort yesterday around 5pm at 80*. Going nuts this morning (6am) at 83* and smells wonderful. Krausen was already reaching the airlock so I switched to blowoff and left for work. I plan to keep it around 80* for a week and then I'll check og and post the results.

Ok, sold! Down to 1.003 and tastes amazing. I kept it between 80 and 85*. Spicy-citricy, strong and dry. I'm kegging this one tonight!

 

[Spartangreen]

So in the end 1 packet did the job.
OG 1052
FG 1012
(Hit the recipe)
Fermented @ 66deg for 2 weeks.
Belgian Pale Ale
Tastes great!

 

[DeTech]

Super spicy! Pepper, coriander, and lemon. In retrospect I would have vamped up the bitterness to balance out the yeast profile. Sticking it on oak for a week to see if I can get it to even out. Pitched at 65F and elevated to 76-78F for a 10 days.