New Cost Question

[jshell55]

I looked through a few old threads on this important topic, but have a couple of questions for the forum dwellers.

I've been brewing mainly from the Cooper's kits up until now and I want to phase into some grain/extract combination.

I can get one of those kits for about $16, prehopped and with a little packet of yeast. They're about 3.3 lbs of extract, I think. The directions call for you to add 2 kg (4.4 lbs) of sugar to most of them, so the total all-in cost for this is about 20 bucks give or take, and I will end up with 6 gallons of sugary beer.

I just bought and brewed my first half-batches from Dry Malt Extract (DME). It cost me about $12 each for 3 lb bags of amber extract, a few dollars for some hops and yeast, the total was about 30 clams, and I will get about 6 gallons of hopefully excellent beer.

When I transition to grain, most of the formulations in Palmer's book call for 7-8 lbs of grain for a 5 gallon batch, so for my 6 gallon batches will be about 9 lbs, bulk pale barley around here is selling for about $1.75 per pound, so we're looking at about $16 for the grain, another $3-5 for the hops, and a couple bucks for the yeast, so $20-$25 bucks for an all grain batch, if I ever get to that level of sophistication. I also think that you can get grain by the 55 lb bag for around $1 per pound, which would actually reduce my batch cost to about $17, once I got the yeast and hops. Dunno about the beer quality, but I am optimistic that I will figure it out. But, that's about what I am paying for the kits.

So my questions are:

In #2 above what will happen if I try to reduce my cost by cutting back on the amount of DME and adding sugar, like the Coopers kits? Yeah, it will undoubtedly make the beer crappier.... or will it?

Am I about right on my calculation in #3? Seems like this is the thriftiest way to do the brew.

What happens if I add less grain and more sugar to #3? I know, I will probably end up with something tasteless that will give me a headache, like Budweiser.

Help guide me, forum dwellers.

 

[Germelli1]

Ok, I am not a typical "YOU NEED TO GO ALLGRAIN" person, but since all grain is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper I have to suggest this: I would look into partial mashing. You can use 2 row malt to mash the specialty grains (giving you more freedom in brewing styles and ingredient use) then use extract to bring your beers up to gravity.

This way you can start partially mashing only the amount of grain you are comfortable with, and keep progressing to the point where you use little to no extract.

I get grain by the sack directly from the maltsters for $33. On my house recipes that use 10-12 pounds per 6 gallon batch, my costs come out to $10-15 per batch.

I also have tons of harvest yeast in my fridge and with the exception of specialty strains which I only buy once then harvest, I NEVER buy yeast so that cuts down on costs.

 

[rayg]

That quote about 6 hours sharpening the axe doesn't
appear anywhere in Google books until 1994, where it
appears in "Endless Prospects: 301 Tactics to Reach
Hard-to-Reach People"- Page 27 by C. Richard Weylman.
His version is "If I had six days to chop down a tree, I
would spend five days sharpening my axe", and he also
attributes it to Lincoln. There must be a billion apocryphal
Lincoln quotes out there.

Ray

 

[Germelli1]

That quote about 6 hours sharpening the axe doesn't
appear anywhere in Google books until 1994, where it
appears in "Endless Prospects: 301 Tactics to Reach
Hard-to-Reach People"- Page 27 by C. Richard Weylman.
His version is "If I had six days to chop down a tree, I
would spend five days sharpening my axe", and he also
attributes it to Lincoln. There must be a billion apocryphal
Lincoln quotes out there.

Ray

It took me a while to figure out what you were talking about! I didn't even realize I still had a forum sig up since I have them turned off haha. I think a teacher had it up on the wall of his office sometime and it just stuck with me!

 

[kh54s10]

Hijacking this thread some more.......

If I had 8 hours to fell a tree, I would spend 20 minutes cutting it with a chainsaw, then 7 hours 40 minutes contemplating what I had done enjoying homebrews.

 

[KevinM]

DME/LME/Grain is said to provide both body and flavor to a beer.
Straight sucrose (table sugar) has none of the extras that these have and will only provide alcohol. It's said that too much of it will reduce body (since it has none) and may give a cidery flavor to the beer.

Check it with some of ingredient information since I don't really pay attention to the DME/LME or barley.

 

[stratslinger]

Agreed with KevinM - using large amounts of sugar as your fermentables isn't going to create a very good beer - it'll have alcohol content, for sure, but the body and flavor just won't be there.

Another thing you need to take into account when looking at non-Cooper's kits or All Grain is specialty grains. Many of these don't need to be mashed, so they're commonly steeped prior to adding your extract - this tends to add some color and definitely imparts some flavor and body above and beyond the extract - but it also adds a little to the cost, since now you're talking about extract PLUS a small amount of grain (I've done extract w/ steeping grains ranging from under a pound of grain to 2.5lbs).

Likewise, those same specialty grains would be involved in All Grain brewing - those and more, since there are a lot of specialty grains that need to be mashed and thus can't be used in extract beers. These can vary in cost, but will likely average a little more than what your base malt costs.

Bottom line though, if you're looking to reduce the cost of your ingredients, All Grain is probably your best bet. Just know that it carries a heftier up-front cost for equipment, depending on your setup.

 

[unionrdr]

I use cooper's cans as a base,with 3lb bags of Munton's plain DME's,& various hops,depending on the style I want to end up with. I don't use added sugars anymore. All that sugar dries the ale up,& makes it "thinner". Some sugar added with DME can be fine. I'm going to have my wife use about 250g of demerara sugar with 3 different malts,both DME & LME. With 1oz of hops over 2 additions. It'll be a summer ale. This should be something to think about.

 

[jshell55]

Thanks, Forum Dwellers:

The gradual phase-in of the grain brewing is probably what I will do. I have a little experience with partial-grain batches from morebeer.com, because I was given a couple of batches awhile back, and I am at least a year smarter now than I was when I did that project.

A lot will depend on my success with these first two DME batches. These are low-key enough that I can harvest the yeast as well, thus saving me a buck or two.

$33 for a bag of grain is pretty thrifty. I can make a lot of low-consequence mistakes at that rate. How do you get it? Order on line or a store nearby?

 

[Germelli1]

Thanks, Forum Dwellers:

The gradual phase-in of the grain brewing is probably what I will do. I have a little experience with partial-grain batches from morebeer.com, because I was given a couple of batches awhile back, and I am at least a year smarter now than I was when I did that project.

A lot will depend on my success with these first two DME batches. These are low-key enough that I can harvest the yeast as well, thus saving me a buck or two.

$33 for a bag of grain is pretty thrifty. I can make a lot of low-consequence mistakes at that rate. How do you get it? Order on line or a store nearby?

Actually through this site...see if there are any bulk grain buys near you. The maltsters will sell to homebrewers at a FORTY-TWO bag minimum so we get a whole bunch of homebrewers together and place an order for everyone. I get 2-row pale malt for $33, Marris Otter 2-row for $42 and Munich Malt for something in that range. Shipping on those bags is killer if ordered through as store so I am willing to drive a bit if I am ordering 220 pounds of grain for under $200!

 

[mredge73]

Buying anything in bulk will save you lots of money.
So don't forget hops, you can get them by the lb and save a lot of money.
And my new yeast harvesting efforts save me $6-8 a batch.