New BIAB setup. Ss brewtech or Spike? Utah Diesel or Arbor Fab?

[matt_m]

Do you boil with the false bottom in place?

Yes, its so open it has no impact on basically anything except that during whirlpool some of the hop matter will pile up on it if there were a lot of hop additions.

I have a 15 gallon Spike kettle (V2 maybe?) and I used to use it for 5 gallon BIAB batches. I went with a 15 gallon kettle so I didn't have to worry about the size of my grain bill or the amount of hops I add during the boil or hover over the kettle for the entire time. I tossed an ounce of Columbus into the boil once and the foam got within an inch of the top of the kettle. That would have been an awfully big mess if I was using a 10 gallon kettle.

Exactly what I went with. Except then I also bought an Anvil Foundry. It would be pretty easy to max out the Foundry with a bigger beer if you want 5 gallons out. So far the beers I've done it went into a corny keg for fermenting with Kviek in a hot water bath. Once I get rolling I'd like to do double brew days.

 

[ranchonodinero]

I know you said no electric, but thought I'd toss my .02 in. I use a Brewboss system for all grain and a burner for extracts and ciders. The brewboss is electric and after having built a propane based, two tier converted keg system, this is far easier. Brew days are fast-around 4 hours from cold water to total cleanup. I've only been making 6 gallon batches in it. Is it perfect-no-but I like the flexibility. And electric isn't bad at all. Sure, you don't have the reassuring sound of a jet engine burner going-in fact, it's kinda weird with how little sound the thing makes while brewing-except for the voice prompts, but take a look at them. No, Darrin (the owner) didn't put me up to this, but if you are looking at some of the other systems, you should take a look at Darrin's too.

 

[dhoyt]

I agree with spike being a great kettle, however...

What size beer are your brewing that makes you feel that you need a 15 Gal kettle for a 5 gal Batch? I may be reading to far into this, if so, i do apologize. I know I am a strange one, just because I do enjoy my beer , and I actually try to stay along the small size ( 4-6%), so my 10 Gal kettle is perfect for my brewes. with my grains and water I am at the 9 gal mark on my kettle. when i start my boil i am at the 7.5 Gal mark. I have no issues with boil overs or anything. From what I have read, you want a kettle that is double the size that you want to brew, so if you want to do 10 gal, you actually want a 20 G kettle. On this note, I do BIAB, an actually bag, not a basket ( i can see a basket needing a bigger vessel just because of the extra weight)

I'm personally trying to have my cake and eat it too with a 15 gal but I'm not sure my thought process is even valid. I want the ability to do 5 and 10 gal batches. I know that I wouldn't be able to do big beers at the larger volume but I don't want to go all the way up to a 20 gal and not be able to do 5 gal batches at all. However that was also why I was leaning towards spike because you can get the side by side ports instead of horizontally stacked. I was thinking that even with a 20 gal kettle I could still do 5 gal batches? Thoughts?

 

[dhoyt]

I know you said no electric, but thought I'd toss my .02 in. I use a Brewboss system for all grain and a burner for extracts and ciders. The brewboss is electric and after having built a propane based, two tier converted keg system, this is far easier. Brew days are fast-around 4 hours from cold water to total cleanup. I've only been making 6 gallon batches in it. Is it perfect-no-but I like the flexibility. And electric isn't bad at all. Sure, you don't have the reassuring sound of a jet engine burner going-in fact, it's kinda weird with how little sound the thing makes while brewing-except for the voice prompts, but take a look at them. No, Darrin (the owner) didn't put me up to this, but if you are looking at some of the other systems, you should take a look at Darrin's too.

I have nothing against electric it just doesn't really tickle my fancy. I feel more badass making beer over a flame hahaha. it's like the difference between grilling a steak outside or putting it in the oven. Do they both work and result in eating delicious meat, of course. I just enjoy one process more than the other is all.

 

[k-os]

I'm personally trying to have my cake and eat it too with a 15 gal but I'm not sure my thought process is even valid. I want the ability to do 5 and 10 gal batches. I know that I wouldn't be able to do big beers at the larger volume but I don't want to go all the way up to a 20 gal and not be able to do 5 gal batches at all. However that was also why I was leaning towards spike because you can get the side by side ports instead of horizontally stacked. I was thinking that even with a 20 gal kettle I could still do 5 gal batches? Thoughts?

If you're not going electric you could probably get away with doing a 5 gallon batch in the 20 gallon kettle. I had planned that when I bought my Spike 20 gallon kettle two years ago, however the placement of the TC port for my heating element is around the 4 gallon mark, so I haven't even tried to do any 5 gallon batches in it and ended up getting a 10 gallon kettle from their Bargain Cave that already had all the ports I needed (I may add one more for whirlpooling).

 

[Redpappy]

I'm personally trying to have my cake and eat it too with a 15 gal but I'm not sure my thought process is even valid. I want the ability to do 5 and 10 gal batches. I know that I wouldn't be able to do big beers at the larger volume but I don't want to go all the way up to a 20 gal and not be able to do 5 gal batches at all. However that was also why I was leaning towards spike because you can get the side by side ports instead of horizontally stacked. I was thinking that even with a 20 gal kettle I could still do 5 gal batches? Thoughts?

if your planning to stay gas, you should have no issues doing 5 gal batch in a 20 g kettle. For my set up, I start with 8.5 G of water, and about 13lbs of grain. Once the grains are added, I’m sitting at about 9.8 g. Not much room, so 15g kettle for 10G batch would be hard to do unless you do a sparge.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I have nothing against electric it just doesn't really tickle my fancy. I feel more badass making beer over a flame hahaha. it's like the difference between grilling a steak outside or putting it in the oven. Do they both work and result in eating delicious meat, of course. I just enjoy one process more than the other is all.

You must not love in an area with cold winters. I have a really nice burner, but brewing in the garage with the door open when it's 5 degrees ot gets old. I brewed the other day when it was about zero out with 30mph winds. I was mashing in my heated garage in a tshirt. Electric is the way to go for those of us who live on the frozen tundra.

 

[mkopec1]

You must not love in an area with cold winters. I have a really nice burner, but brewing in the garage with the door open when it's 5 degrees ot gets old. I brewed the other day when it was about zero out with 30mph winds. I was mashing in my heated garage in a tshirt. Electric is the way to go for those of us who live on the frozen tundra.

Yeah Im with you there this is why I got a robo brew. Plus even in the summer we have the option to take it to basement or whatever when its 90 with 80% humidity. But now I have the option to do both. Do summer brews outside in my old school cooler mash and burner boil or take it inside when weather sucks.

 

[dhoyt]

You must not love in an area with cold winters. I have a really nice burner, but brewing in the garage with the door open when it's 5 degrees ot gets old. I brewed the other day when it was about zero out with 30mph winds. I was mashing in my heated garage in a tshirt. Electric is the way to go for those of us who live on the frozen tundra.

I moved to NC a few months ago, while it's cold now everyone says it doesn't last long. That is the down side of not going electric though and it is definitely a valid point.

 

[dhoyt]

if your planning to stay gas, you should have no issues doing 5 gal batch in a 20 g kettle. For my set up, I start with 8.5 G of water, and about 13lbs of grain. Once the grains are added, I’m sitting at about 9.8 g. Not much room, so 15g kettle for 10G batch would be hard to do unless you do a sparge.

This is good to know, if I can comfortably do 5 and 10 gal batches that would be great. If I went with a 20 gal I think I would have to go with a spike kettle because they are the only ones doing side by side ports. The traditional vertical configuration would probably not keep the temp sensor submerged for a 5 gal batch.

 

[hezagenius]

@dhoyt

Are you doing threaded or TC ports?
TC will give you flexibility if you ever want to do electric. They are easier to clean as well.
The downside is all the fittings are generally a bit more expensive than threaded.

 

[dhoyt]

@dhoyt

Are you doing threaded or TC ports?
TC will give you flexibility if you ever want to do electric. They are easier to clean as well.
The downside is all the fittings are generally a bit more expensive than threaded.

Definitely TC.

 

[dhoyt]

The SS brewtech 20 gal BME kettle has also caught my eye. It looks like the ports maybe low enough for a 5 gallon batch but I'm not sure the concave bottom would be work with a basket

 

[Vintage Iron]

I brew with a 15-gal Spike kettle using a RIMS/BIAB set up and love it! I agree with the comments about getting a larger kettle than you think you'll need.

Here is my set up while mashing in a "Ten-Fidy" clone a couple of months ago. I do a full-volume (no sparge) brew, so things can get tight in that mode. While this is probably the biggest ABV beer I'll ever make the kettle was about as full as it could get. (12-gal water and a full 5-gallon bucket of grains for a 5 gal batch)

Video Link:
https://i.imgur.com/3gescyB.mp4

 

[Redpappy]

I brew with a 15-gal Spike kettle using a RIMS/BIAB set up and love it! I agree with the comments about getting a larger kettle than you think you'll need.

Here is my set up while mashing in a "Ten-Fidy" clone a couple of months ago. I do a full-volume (no sparge) brew, so things can get tight in that mode. While this is probably the biggest ABV beer I'll ever make the kettle was about as full as it could get. (12-gal water and a full 5-gallon bucket of grains for a 5 gal batch)

Video Link:
https://i.imgur.com/3gescyB.mp4

that’s a 5 gal batch in a 15 gal kettle? That must be a BIG beer. Was it tasty?

 

[Vintage Iron]

that’s a 5 gal batch in a 15 gal kettle? That must be a BIG beer. Was it tasty?

Yes, that is a 5-gal batch. The OG ended up at 1.102 and it fermented down to 1.029. (9.6%) It still carbing up, but the initial taste test was yummy.

 

[Redpappy]

Yes, that is a 5-gal batch. The OG ended up at 1.102 and it fermented down to 1.029. (9.6%) It still carbing up, but the initial taste test was yummy.

Wow....sorry, I’m a 4-6 abc guy that is huge lol

 

[Bobby_M]

The impression that I get is that you haven't seen a batch brewed on an electric system. It's one thing to be nudged in that direction by strangers on the internet but to see it in person is almost 100% convincing. The perfect temp control, repeatable boil rate, lack of carbon monoxide, cheaper energy cost. The list goes on for a while. I would take a bag in an electric kettle over a basket in a propane kettle any day. The only real argument anti-electric is the initial setup cost that some people incur due to new electrical circuits needed and the controller being quite pricey.

Are you considering Ford's new Model T? Nah, I'm going to buy the nicest horse drawn carriage I can find. I joke, but that's a pretty accurate analogy having done it both ways for a lot of years.

 

[dhoyt]

I brew with a 15-gal Spike kettle using a RIMS/BIAB set up and love it! I agree with the comments about getting a larger kettle than you think you'll need.

Here is my set up while mashing in a "Ten-Fidy" clone a couple of months ago. I do a full-volume (no sparge) brew, so things can get tight in that mode. While this is probably the biggest ABV beer I'll ever make the kettle was about as full as it could get. (12-gal water and a full 5-gallon bucket of grains for a 5 gal batch)

Video Link:
https://i.imgur.com/3gescyB.mp4

Yeah I think I have settled on spike because of the customization they have. You can get ports in any configuration you like which is nice. I'm going to go with a 20 gal kettle like I originally was thinking. The big concern was that with a kettle that size I wouldn't be able to do 5 gal batches in it but it sounds like with direct fire it shouldn't be an issue. What I'm thinking about now is the ability to switch between direct fire and electric depending on the situation. So now I'm figuring how many ports I'm going to need. Electric coil, whirlpool, two temps depending on electric or direct fire... Price tag keeps going up! Hahaha

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Yeah I think I have settled on spike because of the customization they have. You can get ports in any configuration you like which is nice. I'm going to go with a 20 gal kettle like I originally was thinking. The big concern was that with a kettle that size I wouldn't be able to do 5 gal batches in it but it sounds like with direct fire it shouldn't be an issue. What I'm thinking about now is the ability to switch between direct fire and electric depending on the situation. So now I'm figuring how many ports I'm going to need. Electric coil, whirlpool, two temps depending on electric or direct fire... Price tag keeps going up! Hahaha

Spike is pretty good with helping make decisions, if you email them. I have 4 ports on my 30 gal. Spike kettle that I use for boiling, and 3 ports on my Mashtun. If you don't use the TC port isn't being used t you can always put a cap on it.

 

[Vintage Iron]

Yeah I think I have settled on spike because of the customization they have. You can get ports in any configuration you like which is nice. I'm going to go with a 20 gal kettle like I originally was thinking. The big concern was that with a kettle that size I wouldn't be able to do 5 gal batches in it but it sounds like with direct fire it shouldn't be an issue. What I'm thinking about now is the ability to switch between direct fire and electric depending on the situation. So now I'm figuring how many ports I'm going to need. Electric coil, whirlpool, two temps depending on electric or direct fire... Price tag keeps going up! Hahaha

I purchased my 15-gal kettle used (actually two of them) from a guy who had a business making tea on a small commercial scale. The reason I bring this up is because I was actually looking for a 10-gal kettle, but couldn't pass up the price he was selling these for. I was shocked when the UPS guy dropped them off on my doorstep and I saw how big they are!

There are times the 15-gal kettles are nice for the extra space, and there are times where it's actually somewhat of an Achilles heel that the kettles aren't 10 gallons. Honestly, I think a 20-gal kettle may be a bit overkill for 5-gal batches. Have you seen a 20-gal in person? They're pretty big. Here are a list of pros/cons I've encountered with my 15-gal kettles as compared to the 10-gal Spike kettle a local friend/homebrewer has. Hopefully this will help in your decision making.

Pros:
1) I can brew monster ABV beers.
2) There is plenty of room for stirring in grains and the wider kettle diameter means less clumping when we mash in.
3) There is very little risk of boil over during initial boil start up. (hot break)

Cons:
1)These kettles are HEAVY. Spike products are high quality thick stainless steel. Just the empty kettle with no water in it is lot to carry. If I pick up the kettle by both handles with about 10-gal in it, you can feel the handles flex. I don't do that often! LOL
2) Because of the height and diameter of these kettles, they can be tough to clean. They don't fit in just any sink. You really need a "utility" type of sink to fit them in for cleaning. I didn't think of this when I purchased these kettles and I had to put in a new utility tub faucet in our basement sink as the old one wasn't tall enough to reach up over the top of the kettle.
3) The Spike kettles have a very thick copper-clad bottom, which is great. One thing I've noticed is that it takes a lot longer to cool this kettle (immersion chiller). I believe this is due to the bottom of the kettle being almost twice the size of a 10-gal kettle. (more mass) . A 20-gal kettle will have even more kettle mass to cool.

The bottom line is that I love these 15-gal kettles even though they are a bit of a beast compared to a standard 10-gal kettle. Having said that, I definitely wouldn't want anything bigger than this. Unless you plan on brewing double (10gal) batches, I would very much rethink the idea of buying a 20 gal kettle for 5-gal batches for the above reasons. Sometimes brewing lower ABV batches in these kettles can be a bit like doing finish carpentry with a sledge hammer; it gets the job done, but is kind of like a bull in a china shop.

Speaking of brew kettles, I will be brewing a cream ale (New Glarus Spotted Cow clone) later today. I'll try to take some pics of what that batch looks like so you get an idea of just how much extra space a 15-gal kettle offers for a 5-gal batch of a lower ABV beer.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

It really comes down to what style of beer and how much you want to brew at a time. A 20 gal kettle is pretty big if you are only doing a batch of a cream ale, but if you like Russian Imperial Stouts or other styles that require alot of grain you might appreciate the extra room in the kettle.

 

[Vintage Iron]

As promised, here are some in-use pics of a 15-gal Spike kettle.

First off is sitting in our basement utility sink.



You can see that the base of it barely fits in the sink.



And here it is with 9 gallons of water and 10lbs of grain. I'd describe it as 2/3 full:

 

[wilserbrewer]

That is a nice fitting bag i must say lol

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

It really comes down to what style of beer and how much you want to brew at a time. A 20 gal kettle is pretty big if you are only doing a batch of a cream ale, but if you like Russian Imperial Stouts or other styles that require alot of grain you might appreciate the extra room in the kettle.

Off topic but isn't spotted cow a farmhouse ale?

 

[Vintage Iron]

Off topic but isn't spotted cow a farmhouse ale?

That's what I always thought too. NorthernBrewer seems vague. Here is how the instruction sheet for the recipe reads:

"Those among us who are or were farmboys and -girls will correctly identify them as Holsteins; to the rest of the citified, sissified world they’re “spotted cows” This multigrained Midwestern take on the American cream ale is an uncomplicated, unfussy, lovable guzzler."​

After reading this description, it sounds like a Farm-house or Cream ale are both correct. (shrug) . Either way, I love this recipe. It always tastes even better than the real thing. Our basement smells amazing while it's fermenting!

 

[NewJersey]

I'm only 1 brew in on a 10 gallon eBIAB setup ND it was an 8% full volume mash. I think 9%would absolutely max out a 10 gallon pot, which is fine for me.
Whenever I get around to making something bigger than 9% I'm just gonna scale the recipe back to 4 or 4.5 gallons.
I like having the smaller and easier to handle/clean pot.

 

[Cato1507]

I use a 10gal eBIAB kettle but usually I go for 5-6%ABV and I find it perfect size for full volume BIAB.

 

[NewJersey]

I use a 10gal eBIAB kettle but usually I go for 5-6%ABV and I find it perfect size for full volume BIAB.

Depends on the style for me. For NEIPAs it's whatever, but for real IPAs I sometimes want 6ish abv and sometimes I crave 8ish. They're totally different beers

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm only 1 brew in on a 10 gallon eBIAB setup ND it was an 8% full volume mash. I think 9%would absolutely max out a 10 gallon pot, which is fine for me.
Whenever I get around to making something bigger than 9% I'm just gonna scale the recipe back to 4 or 4.5 gallons.
I like having the smaller and easier to handle/clean pot.

I love my 10G pot and have no wish to go bigger. Next time I brew a really big beer, I'll either go back to my cooler MT for that batch or, eventually, I'll use a K-RIMS set up. A dunk sparge is also an option and would probably help efficiency anyway.