New 10 Gallon Herms! Pics!

[The Pol]

Yes, I see that. I'm just not familiar with all the disconnects and connections at the top of the HLT and MT.

You should submit this to BYO, if you haven't already...

BYO, you really think so? Hrmmm.

I can help you out with the connections at the top there, I have my order history from McMaster all saved.

QD's
6739K64 6 Each Hose Couplings For Coolant, Sleeve-lck Sckt X Barb, 3/8"cplg Sz,1/2"hose Id
6739K59 7 Each Hose Couplings For Coolant, Plug, 1/2" Nptf Male, 3/8" Coupling Size

FITTINGS TO ATTACH QDs TO HERMS COIL
50915K328 2 Each Standard Brass Compression Tube Fitting, Adapter For 1/2" Tube Od X 1/2" Nptf Male Pipe

TO ATTACH LOC LINE THROUGH LID OF MLT
5307K48 1 Pack 1/2" Npt Male Connector For 1/2" Id, Snap-loc Any-which-way Coolant Hose

LOC LINE FOR MLT RETURN
10095K45 2 Packs 1’ Of 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

NOZZLE FOR LOC LINE RETURN LINE
10095K25 1 Pack 1/2" Diameter Round Nozzle For 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

1 EA to affix QDs to HERMS coil and to the MLT LID for the LOC LINE RETURN LINE
50785K94 3 Each Med-pressure Extruded Brass Thrd Pipe Fitting, 1/2" Pipe Size, Hex Coupling, 1-3/16" Length

 

[The Pol]

Thanks, that's helpful. Real simple question: How do you connect the heat exchange coil at the top? I have an immersion chiller (that I would keep as such as I think it is 3/8" and it's 50'), but that is bent at the top to accomodate hoses at a horizontal angle, not vertical. Did you cut the coil, and how did you connect that to the tubing?

I did cut this tubing, it was originally a "pre chiller" from B3, then I used the above listed compression and hex fittings to attach the QDs.

 

[The Pol]

Here is my starter parts list. I am not going to guarantee it is correct, but this what I have so far. Anybody can take it and revise it also. I am also sure there are a few little parts that are left out. Also pol if you see anything wrong just let me know.

2x 10 rubbermaid coolers with valves (valves should have ½ “opening)

1x johnson controller (a419)

1x March heat resistant pump for food (needs valve or valves)

1x 25 foot 1/2" DIA copper tubing coil (with means to affix quick disconnects at ends)

1x Thermowell stopper or stopper with a crimped corny pickup tube. (for Johnson temp probe)

2x Solid stoppers with temp probes to read MLT temp and HLT temp

1x 120v 1500w water heater element (needs separate length of wire and plug to wire up) Also needs a means to insulate bottom wires. OP used JB weld. EXCELLENT DIELECTRIC PROPERTIES FOR EVEN 240VAC

1x SS nut (fits top side of heater element threads and pulls heater seal upwards to seal bottom.) (not sure where to get this yet) BARGAINFITINGS.COM


12 ft heat resistant tubing (1/2 ID)

6x stainless hose clamps

MC master parts (mcmaster.com)

6x #6739K59 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Plug, 1/2" Nptf Male, 3/8"

6 x Coupling Size#6739K64 High Flow Hose Coupling For Coolant, Sleeve-lck Sckt X
Barb, 3/8"cplg Sz,1/2"hose Id

1x 6142K49 Ac Gearmotor W/fan, Face Mnt, 100 Rpm, 7 In-lbs Torque, 115 Vac

1x 34935K66 Polypropylene Propeller With Shaft U-shaped Blade, 2-1/2" DIA.

1x 6099K22 Stainless Steel One-piece Set-screw Coupling 5/16" Bore, 1" Length, 5/8" Od, Without Keyway

1x 10095K12 Loc-Line Any-Which-Way Coolant Hose 1/2" ID, 24" Length W/ Connectors & Round Nozzles, this is (2) orders as they are 12" long

I updated it above....

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

I updated it above....

Ok added to list except one.

What is the part # for this one?

1 EA to affix QDs to HERMS coil and to the MLT LID for the LOC LINE RETURN LINE


Hey pol I noticed on mc master they had a 13 inch loc line with connectors and nozzle, Is this the same thing, but just under 1 part number?

1x 10095K12 Loc-Line Any-Which-Way Coolant Hose 1/2" ID, 13" Length W/ Connectors & Round Nozzles

 

[The Pol]

Ok added to list except one.

What is the part # for this one?

1 EA to affix QDs to HERMS coil and to the MLT LID for the LOC LINE RETURN LINE


Hey pol I noticed on mc master they had a 13 inch loc line with connectors and nozzle, Is this the same thing, but just under 1 part number?

1x 10095K12 Loc-Line Any-Which-Way Coolant Hose 1/2" ID, 13" Length W/ Connectors & Round Nozzles

The part number is listed above.... 50785k94
It looks like the Loc Line you listed is what you want... but you want 2' of Loc Line

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

The part number is listed above.... 50785k94
It looks like the Loc Line you listed is what you want... but you want 2' of Loc Line

Ok that clears that up. I have updated list.

 

[rman]

Another question for any experts out there. I'm getting ready to purchase my HERMS coil and want to get 50' 1/2" tubing (I think). The "refrigeration" grade tubing is WAY cheaper than type K or L but does not seem to be NSF rated for liquids (from what i can find). Is there any real difference btwn refrigeration grade and the others besides wall thickness? Any health concerns?

Pol, Do you think 50' of 1/2" for your coil is overkill or would 25' be plenty? Also did you get 1/2" OD or 1/2" ID (5/8" OD)?

 

[G-E-R-M-A-N]

Another question for any experts out there. I'm getting ready to purchase my HERMS coil and want to get 50' 1/2" tubing (I think). The "refrigeration" grade tubing is WAY cheaper than type K or L but does not seem to be NSF rated for liquids (from what i can find). Is there any real difference btwn refrigeration grade and the others besides wall thickness? Any health concerns?

Pol, Do you think 50' of 1/2" for your coil is overkill or would 25' be plenty? Also did you get 1/2" OD or 1/2" ID (5/8" OD)?

I am not Pol, but he has used 25ft copper pre chiller from B3. It would seem a waste to use 50ft IMO. He only has a few degree difference between the HLT and the MLT.

 

[planenut]

I'm not sure how much extra wort you would lose in the extra 25'.
I'd stick with 25.

 

[rman]

I'm not sure how much extra wort you would lose in the extra 25'.
I'd stick with 25.

Thanks. I misread his post. I shouldn't lose any wort though as the sparge water will get pumped through the coil during the sparge to clear out any wort.

 

[The Pol]

25' will suffice. You need to remember that the more copper you pack into the HLT, the less water volume you have. So you are balancing some things here. 25' will suffice, 50' would be overkill, completely.

My tubing is 1/2" copper tubing, this generally refers to the OD of the tubing. Most tubing is sold by its nominal OD. As to the different grades of copper tubing... I dont know. I didnt know that there were different grades. I would definately make sure that whatever you do buy, it is OK for potable water.

If you have any further questions, let me know. Glad to help.

 

[The Pol]

Thanks. I misread his post. I shouldn't lose any wort though as the sparge water will get pumped through the coil during the sparge to clear out any wort.

Precisely... pump the sparge water through the coils. You lose no wort that way, and it definately helps clean out the sticky stuff.

 

[Stile]

Heya Pol,

Fantastic work :rockin:. Well like so many others, i've decided to give this a go. The one question i have is, what is the model number of your A419??

IE. A419xxx-xx

and.... (guess i have another question) since your setup for 208-240v with your new E-keggle, any plans on updating you HLT to a 220v element for faster heating??

 

[The Pol]

The A419 was purtchased from Northern Brewer... didnt know they had different models. Mine will switch 16A at 120VAC... that is all I know!

As for the larger element in the HLT... here is the ONE issue. How long are those 240VAC elements? How tall is the HLT? How much water will you always have to have in the HLT to keep it submerged?

You can get a nice short 120VAC 2000W element for the HLT, mine is 1500W, that would help heating slightly. Most 240VAC elements are going to run about 14" or more in length (height) in the HLT. This equates to 8 gallons of water MIN in the HLT at all times when the element is running.

Once you strike you will have to top up the HLT, if you have a 5500W element in the HLT you will get up to recirc temp again in about 3-4 minutes. Whereas with the 2000W element it would take 9-10 minutes.... during which time you would simply hold off on the recirc obviously.
I went with the 1500W element when I didnt dream of having 240VAC capability on my rig. I also never really cared about the initial heating time... as I spend this time prepping everything else anyway.

You CAN do it, but be SURE to turn off the element when you are striking (pumping to the MLT) or else you will smoke the element in the HLT... it will need a nearly full HLT to stay submerged. The 120VAC element is always under water in the HLT due to its short length.

I probably WONT upgrade the HLT to 240VAC since it works fine for me as is... I have the A419, which I cannot use on a 240VAC element. I have a control panel that WILL NOT accomodate another PID or SSR. Also, I would need another PID and SSR to control the HLT. The system currently works as I intended, I cant see buying another PID, SSR, and wiring a whole new control panel to accomodate the extra stuff.

 

[Stile]

Ya the A419 comes in a few variations. NB just happens to have the ones that fits most brewers needs. There is a 220v switching model available.

I see your point on the length of the heating element... It maybe the catalyst to me building a seperate heat exchanger but not to sure as of yet. I was thinking along the lines of a paint can sized exchanger and filled with non conductive oil which would hold heat better.... plus being safer. I know it seems like an extra piece of equipment... so again, i'm not sure.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, my A419 can switch 240VAC but at only like 10A, which is pretty worthless.

I went through many ideas before I settled on my rig. I literally drew up designs, calculated heating times and figured out procedures for each design for MONTHS before I built it.

There are people that build an external HERMS heater in order to more quickly do step mashes, but they are missing something I think. Here is why, and here is how the Brew Beast V2.0 handles it. I am brewing a Heffe here with a protien step mash, the typical step mash right?

Heat HLT to 145F... lose 15F heating MLT, strike with 130F and rest at 122F.

During the 20 minute 122F step, do not recirculate, there is no need.

During the 122F step, heat the HLT to 156F or whatever the appropriate alpha rest temp is.

When the 122F step is complete, start the pump and heat the mash to alpha rest temp (156F). You have 8 gallons of thermal mass in the HLT, plus your heater. In your external HEX you will have only 1-2 gallons of thermal mass, the element will run much more... maybe that doesnt matter really.

This is what you are doing with a smaller external HERMS HEX, except you arent recirculating during the 122F step, who cares though?

 

[The Pol]

Ya the A419 comes in a few variations. NB just happens to have the ones that fits most brewers needs. There is a 220v switching model available.

I see your point on the length of the heating element... It maybe the catalyst to me building a seperate heat exchanger but not to sure as of yet. I was thinking along the lines of a paint can sized exchanger and filled with non conductive oil which would hold heat better.... plus being safer. I know it seems like an extra piece of equipment... so again, i'm not sure.

If you use a paint can, you are going to be limited again to a 120VAC element, still heating the same quantities of water in the end, what will you gain?

 

[The Pol]

There is a certain magazine that is showing interest in my rig... I may get more recognition for brewing than I do flying, amazing.

 

[Stile]

If you use a paint can, you are going to be limited again to a 120VAC element, still heating the same quantities of water in the end, what will you gain?

Ya i thought about that too, so i was thinking about a seperate heat exchanger and going electric in my HLT too. I know my logic seems totally flawed and i'll more then likely just build your exact setup.

I'll just go with a 2000w 120v element (HD i think... Lowes has 1500w) No need to reinvent the wheel i guess.

Have you run the numbers on the cost of running your entire system on a typical brew session??

And gratz on the magazine.... you've done class A work and deserve all the kudos you get from your brewing peers.

 

[The Pol]

It costs me about $1.22 per brew session out here at our current cost per KWh. When I was using strictly propane to heat the HLT and BK, I was using nearly $5 per session in gas. Not to mention overheating my garage in the summer if I wanted to stay in out of the sun, and breathing in CO in the winter if I wanted to brew.
Temp control within .5F.
Step mash without infusions.
No CO
Cheap
What does the Mc Ds commercial say? IM LOVIN IT!

 

[The Pol]

Ya i thought about that too, so i was thinking about a seperate heat exchanger and going electric in my HLT too. I know my logic seems totally flawed and i'll more then likely just build your exact setup.

I'll just go with a 2000w 120v element (HD i think... Lowes has 1500w) No need to reinvent the wheel i guess.

Have you run the numbers on the cost of running your entire system on a typical brew session??

And gratz on the magazine.... you've done class A work and deserve all the kudos you get from your brewing peers.

Any design that fits your parameters is by definition not flawed... just thought I would ask. I originally thought about building an external HEX with a 3 gallon cooler as well. Then I realized that I was able to accomplish the same thing without it, and without running another element and temp controller.

You can adjust the temp of the HEX faster, but in the end you are still heating the same ammount of mash water, so with a couple techniques, I was able to work around the slower response time of the HLT HEX.

I think an external HEX separate from the HLT would look sweet, and would work well, but it never fit my design philosophy of simple, affordable, reliable and repeatable. It was simply extra... in my case.

 

[jkarp]

I'll just go with a 2000w 120v element (HD i think... Lowes has 1500w) No need to reinvent the wheel i guess.

Even though HD's website says 2KW 120V elements SHOULD be available in the store, I couldn't find them anywhere. Ace Hardware stocked 'em tho - just in case you run into the same problem.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, Lowes and HD have horrible websites. They do not list much of what they DO carry, and list many things that they DONT carry in your local store. Sort of a crap shoot.

 

[Mainebrew]

Whats mcmasters part # for that hose?

Thanks

 

[The Pol]

The LocLine for the MLT return line???

It is on page... 14 or sumthin, here it is.

LOC LINE FOR MLT RETURN
10095K45 2 Packs 1’ Of 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

NOZZLE FOR LOC LINE RETURN LINE
10095K25 1 Pack 1/2" Diameter Round Nozzle For 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

 

[Gonefishing]

Just curious... I know that your heating element is through the bottom, but could one mount one from the side, rather near the bottom? Would seem you could possible use a longer element, which may help if the rest of the system will be 220v as mine will be ( pump I bought is 220v)

 

[The Pol]

Just curious... I know that your heating element is through the bottom, but could one mount one from the side, rather near the bottom? Would seem you could possible use a longer element, which may help if the rest of the system will be 220v as mine will be ( pump I bought is 220v)

The diameter of the cooler would only really allow an 11" long element. If you can find a 240VAC element that is that short, Id say go for it. http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html I am not sure how it will seal, I have never seen it done.

 

[Stile]

Well.... i'm running 16.25 amps with a 120v 2000w element. The A419 should do the trick... usually, manufactures will drop specs on the low end for public safety. I'm sure it could switch 17 amps with no problems.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, I know a guy that bought a knockoff of the JC A419, that would only switch like 10A at 120VAC... or so it said. He called JC, they said they actually manufactured the controller for another company and it was derated because the power cord was a lighter AWG... so, I am sure the controller can handle the 2000W element without a problem.

 

[Gonefishing]

I found a 240 element that looks short enough to mount as yours does..
Plumbing > Water Heaters > Water Heater Elements > Water Heater Element : Grainger Industrial Supply