Never Use Pbw Again!!

[Nierika]

I use both OC Free and PBW. I've tried the Sun stuff and was really impressed at first, but after soaking some bottles it left this white film that I couldn't rinse off no matter what (someone mentioned an acid wash earlier. Maybe that's what it needed.) My water is really hard, but I have never had that film with Oxyclean.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I use both OC Free and PBW. I've tried the Sun stuff and was really impressed at first, but after soaking some bottles it left this white film that I couldn't rinse off no matter what (someone mentioned an acid wash earlier. Maybe that's what it needed.) My water is really hard, but I have never had that film with Oxyclean.

Don't know that product, but guessing a vinegar solution would clean it off. Our local version of Oxy leaves a film on my demijohns (carboy-ish thang) which I remove with a vinegar solution. I don't clean bottles with that though, just the demijohns....

 

[weirdboy]

I recently picked up a big container of PBW for dirt cheap from a place that was closing their doors. I still haven't used it, since I also have a big ol' box of oxyclean that I'm maybe 1/4 of the way through so far.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I am thrilled with the PBW. Tap water pH is 9.2 - 9.3 on average. I buy PBW wholesale in 50 pound buckets. With shipping my per gallon cost is around 10 to 15 cents.

I also use it as a Line cleaner.

 

[Cliff897]

And it's not even 100% it's 30%
Sodium Metasilicate is cheap stuff $1.50 a pound in a 50 pound bag.

I'm sure you can get it in smaller volumes tho.
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Chemicals_S_Z-Sodium_Metasilicate.html

I put a natural bristle paint brush in sodium metasilicate solution that was clogged with years and years of old oil paint. The solution strength was maybe a quarter cup of the powder to a quart of water.

It stripped away all the old paint and started to denature the brush. The bristles became permanently limp and without any body. The brush was ruined

The lesson for me was this stuff is strong.

 

[Cliff897]

What's the effect of Oxyclean type cleaners on copper? I currently have a counterflow chilller with copper that needs a strong cleaning after sitting for 7 years and will have to look locally for something to clean it with. Thoughts?

Vinegar will brighten it up
So will muriatic acid in some solution of water.

 

[Cliff897]

Even in hard water areas for people without a built in water softener, water softening salt is cheap. Surely it would be easy enough to add water softener to the mix?

No. the saline doesn't really have anything to do with the hardness of the water.

A residential water treatment station can have two principle elements ( one for filtering and hardness and the other for acid remediation). The Acid remediation is a volume filled with either Limestone or magnesium and calcium blend that some folks call "CalMag". The water is percolated through the mineral where the acidity is neutralized. Yes, those minerals end up in the water. Makes you beer taste good too.

The hardness and other filtration issues are addressed by percolating the water through a bed of Zeolite. It's an aluminum compound that has a specific Ionic charge. Minerals and Crap in the water are attracted to it and eventually it becomes so burdened with the crap that it's electrical potential needs to be recharged and the crap rinsed away.
Enter the salt~!!
A saline solution is percolated through the Zeolite bed which reverses the ionic charge returning the zeolite to its original state and water is flushed through the zeolite bed to flush the sale away.

 

[rtockst]

a guy I know swears by arm and hammer super washing soda. I couldn't find any info on the box about what is in it, but he says it works great and is cheap. Does anyone know anything about it?

 

[Brew-boy]

I will never use oxy clean again, I left it in a keg and it left the inside with a pitted finish.
I use B-brite or PBW. Not sure why the oxy junk did this to my keg but I could care less as I will not use it ever again.

 

[Hermit]

a guy I know swears by arm and hammer super washing soda. I couldn't find any info on the box about what is in it, but he says it works great and is cheap. Does anyone know anything about it?

If I see a washing machine tub where the holes are all clogged up, I know what detergent they are using. I'm told if the water is hot enough this isn't a problem.

 

[Cliff897]

a guy I know swears by arm and hammer super washing soda. I couldn't find any info on the box about what is in it, but he says it works great and is cheap. Does anyone know anything about it?

Sodium carbonate CAS # 000497-19-8

 

[GNBrews]

I will never use oxy clean again, I left it in a keg and it left the inside with a pitted finish.
I use B-brite or PBW. Not sure why the oxy junk did this to my keg but I could care less as I will not use it ever again.

Good news. It's not pitted. Stainless steel is damaged by acids, but is fairly impervious to bases (Oxyclean = sodium percarbonate = basic). What you think is pitting is actually mineral deposits from where the oxyclean granules landed when you poured it in to the keg. I had the same reaction when I left a solution in a keg for a few days. Vinegar or a diluted muriatic acid solution will remove the spots in seconds.

 

[z987k]

no one has mentioned that you could just go buy sodium percarbonate in bulk.

Oxiclean is about 55% sodium percarbonate, but you could buy 100% online and at pool cleaning stores at around $1/lb and use about half as much yet.

oh and this cracked article takes a funny look at it: http://www.cracked.com/article_17606_7-high-tech-products-their-cheap-ass-ingredients.html

 

[Jipper]

FWIW I have found PBW for $2.60 a pound from MOREFLAVOR.com... which means that it probably isnt in stock. BUT, you have to buy it in a 50 pound bucket AND pay for shipping. IT is only $43 to ship...

So I can get 50 pounds for $3.46/pound which is the BEST price I have found anywhere online.

Always with the digs, Pol ...

 

[Nierika]

Hmmm, did a search for sodium percarbonate and came up with this on Amazon:

BioKleen Percarbonate

It's $99.85 for 50lbs and only $9.99 shipping (It's coming from Spokane, WA and I'm in Philly!) Seems like a good deal. there was so spec sheet on their website, so I'm going to email them and ask about the ingredients. I'll keep you posted when I hear back.

Also, they sell by the 500 lb tub. Might be good to get a few people in on a buy.

 

[GNBrews]

It's silly to dick with a 50lb bag of something that you'll use just an ounce or two of every time you brew. Just buy the generic oxiclean from Walmart...buy (2) tubs if you want to always have an extra on-hand.

 

[z987k]

It's silly to dick with a 50lb bag of something that you'll use just an ounce or two of every time you brew. Just buy the generic oxiclean from Walmart...buy (2) tubs if you want to always have an extra on-hand.

I agree. I would look into pool cleaning supplies store before I bought 50lbs.

 

[Brew-boy]

Good news. It's not pitted. Stainless steel is damaged by acids, but is fairly impervious to bases (Oxyclean = sodium percarbonate = basic). What you think is pitting is actually mineral deposits from where the oxyclean granules landed when you poured it in to the keg. I had the same reaction when I left a solution in a keg for a few days. Vinegar or a diluted muriatic acid solution will remove the spots in seconds.

Thanks for the info GNB

 

[ScubaSteve]

no one has mentioned that you could just go buy sodium percarbonate in bulk.

Oxiclean is about 55% sodium percarbonate, but you could buy 100% online and at pool cleaning stores at around $1/lb and use about half as much yet.

oh and this cracked article takes a funny look at it: http://www.cracked.com/article_17606_7-high-tech-products-their-cheap-ass-ingredients.html

That is hilarious. I especially liked the energy drink segment....

 

[SkinnyShamrock]

We use PBW at the brewery because it is a cleaner/sanitizer in one, and because it's powdered, and therefore not quite as annoying to deal with as liquid caustic (splash concentrated caustic on your arm 1/4" above the OSHA-required glove you're wearing as you're measuring it out just ONCE, and that'll be enough to change your mind haha). Plus it's safe on aluminum, so if you accidentally splash it on a piece of equipment that has aluminum parts, you don't have to worry about those parts looking like Swiss cheese in under three minutes.

 

[The Pol]

We use PBW at the brewery because it is a cleaner/sanitizer in one

PBW is a sanitizer?

 

[Lodovico]

PBW is a sanitizer?

No, it is not. Listen to the 5 Star Chemical podcast with Charlie and he clearly states that it is a cleaner and not a sanitizer.

 

[The Pol]

No, it is not. Listen to the 5 Star Chemical podcast with Charlie and he clearly states that it is a cleaner and not a sanitizer.

Right, I know this... but the post before mine sayes that it is... just making sure I didnt miss some huge change in thier formulation

Otherwise they wouldnt sell StarSan in thier "cleaning package" WITH the PBW that they sell to HBers.

 

[remilard]

PBW is percarbonate, wetting agents and chelating agents. This is why it doesn't leave horrible mineral deposits like a percarbonate + inert filler item like oxyclean.

If you know how to construct a suitable cleaning agent from percarbonate, silicates and phospates of course you can do it cheaper than PBW costs because you don't need to pay Five Star for their expertise.

If you want a complete cleaning agent that isn't designed in particular for brewing applications you can buy dishwashing detergent.

Why anyone would use oxyclean is beyond me. In the time you guys spend rinsing everything with vinegar I can make enough money to buy a lifetime supply of PBW and have delivered in a boilermaker.

 

[Lodovico]

PBW is percarbonate, wetting agents and chelating agents. This is why it doesn't leave horrible mineral deposits like a percarbonate + inert filler item like oxyclean.

If you know how to construct a suitable cleaning agent from percarbonate, silicates and phospates of course you can do it cheaper than PBW costs because you don't need to pay Five Star for their expertise.

If you want a complete cleaning agent that isn't designed in particular for brewing applications you can buy dishwashing detergent.

Why anyone would use oxyclean is beyond me. In the time you guys spend rinsing everything with vinegar I can make enough money to buy a lifetime supply of PBW and have delivered in a boilermaker.

+1 to this .

 

[The Pol]

PBW is percarbonate, wetting agents and chelating agents. This is why it doesn't leave horrible mineral deposits like a percarbonate + inert filler item like oxyclean.

If you know how to construct a suitable cleaning agent from percarbonate, silicates and phospates of course you can do it cheaper than PBW costs because you don't need to pay Five Star for their expertise.

If you want a complete cleaning agent that isn't designed in particular for brewing applications you can buy dishwashing detergent.

Why anyone would use oxyclean is beyond me. In the time you guys spend rinsing everything with vinegar I can make enough money to buy a lifetime supply of PBW and have delivered in a boilermaker.

I only rinse with StarSan, wouldnt I have to do that anyway? That takes me 1 minute, I want your job.

 

[remilard]

I only rinse with StarSan, wouldnt I have to do that anyway? That takes me 1 minute, I want your job.

If you are sequestering with star san you should sanitize in a separate step you cannot sanitize an item that isn't clean and an item that has scale or beer stone is not clean.

I bill quite a bit more in a minute than a PBW to clean a carboy costs, jobs like that are easy to get. Get a law degree or a math degree.

 

[The Pol]

Why does it have scale on it? Ive never noticed any film, is this something I can see with the naked eye?

Im not smart enough for a degree.

 

[remilard]

Let's try the socratic method.

Why are phosphates or EDTA added to dish washing and laundry detergent? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use inactive filler like Oxyclean does? Why do something that costs money? Because it is effective? What effect does it have?

 

[The Pol]

Let's try the socratic method.

Why are phosphates or EDTA added to dish washing and laundry detergent? Wouldn't it be cheaper to use inactive filler like Oxyclean does? Why do something that costs money? Because it is effective? What effect does it have?

I dunno... what.