NEIPA do you make a point to transfer kettle hops to the fermenter?

[homebrewdude76]

Do people put effort into limiting the boil/whirlpool hops into the fermenter? Or just transfer it all in without straining and filtering?

 

[Jag75]

I use a hop spider in my Grainfather . I've tried just dumping them in and my pump got plugged so bad it was irritating. If you just toss em in you can try whirlpool let it go for a bit and most will drop especially with whirfloc. I try to limit the hops from going to the fermenter.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am curious. For the last few years I have been transfering from the kettle to the fermenter using my auto-siphon and leaving a good amount of hop debris behind. I brewed my first NEIPA recently and, while I normally throw hops pellets in loose, for this batch I used bags for the flame out and whirlpool hops. It seems a shame that all those hops are only in the beer for a short time, but I have concerns that lots of hop material in the fermenter might cause vetatable flavors. I am not sure if those concerns are based on any sound science or not, as you read lots of different opinions on hopping and dry hopping.

 

[Maverick986]

I just brewed a NE IPA, with a twist today, and had been wondering the same. Through some digging you can go either way. I decided to filter the wort and remove majority of everything from the wort. I may try skipping filtering next time to see how it works out.

I foundtje below article while researching, it may help in your decision.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

 

[HopsAreGood]

I BIAB and primarily brew NEIPAs. I toss in all of my whirlpool hops loose, usually half at 170 and the other half at 150. Usually 4-5 ounces each addition. I get 5 gallon paint strainer bags with the elastic top and line a 7 gallon brew bucket with one. I then pour everything from the kettle into the bucket, through the strainer bag. I then pick the bag up and let all of the hop juice run into the bucket. It's pretty much the same exact process you do with the grains when doing BIAB, except it's hop juice not sugars. From there I pour everything from the bucket into the fermenter. An added benefit of doing it this way is that you're also oxygenating your wort with the pouring and splashing. I then throw out the spent hops and strainer bag. This process works well for me.

 

[IBRUTOO]

Use a home made hop spider and squeeze the wort out of the hops at the end to get the most into the fermentor. Three batches this way and seems to increase the juicyness.

 

[isomerization]

I BIAB and primarily brew NEIPAs. I toss in all of my whirlpool hops loose, usually half at 170 and the other half at 150. Usually 4-5 ounces each addition. I get 5 gallon paint strainer bags with the elastic top and line a 7 gallon brew bucket with one. I then pour everything from the kettle into the bucket, through the strainer bag. I then pick the bag up and let all of the hop juice run into the bucket. It's pretty much the same exact process you do with the grains when doing BIAB, except it's hop juice not sugars. From there I pour everything from the bucket into the fermenter. An added benefit of doing it this way is that you're also oxygenating your wort with the pouring and splashing. I then throw out the spent hops and strainer bag. This process works well for me.

I do pretty much the same, except with a mesh kitchen colander/strainer instead (save the Earth). Not concerned with trub in the fermenter at all.

I don't want hop debris in there though, not sure if there’s been a brulosophy in that variable. Seems like that would be the perfect case for grassiness to build up.

 

[couchsending]

Why would this style of beer be any different than any other? The more break material you can keep out of the fermenter the better and you certainly don’t want any hop matter in there either..... zero!

Everyone that complains about this style needing to be drank quickly and that they fall off fast, well you need to look at how much junk you transfer into your fermenter. Trub is full of oxidative material, the more you can keep out of the fermenter the better. On a professional scale they will always dump trub over the first 24 hours. However as homebrewers this is where we have an advantage. We can cool our wort much faster and let break material settle in the kettle before transferring.

I try to get my wort to be as clear as humanly possible going into the fermenter even for “hazy” beers. And if for some reason part of the transfer doesn’t go as planned and some break material does make it into the fermenter it always gets dumped after fermentation starts. When you get a wiff of it you’ll understand why you don’t want it in there.

 

[isomerization]

Why would this style of beer be any different than any other? The more break material you can keep out of the fermenter the better and you certainly don’t want any hop matter in there either..... zero!

Everyone that complains about this style needing to be drank quickly and that they fall off fast, well you need to look at how much junk you transfer into your fermenter. Trub is full of oxidative material, the more you can keep out of the fermenter the better. On a professional scale they will always dump trub over the first 24 hours. However as homebrewers this is where we have an advantage. We can cool our wort much faster and let break material settle in the kettle before transferring.

I try to get my wort to be as clear as humanly possible going into the fermenter even for “hazy” beers. And if for some reason part of the transfer doesn’t go as planned and some break material does make it into the fermenter it always gets dumped after fermentation starts. When you get a wiff of it you’ll understand why you don’t want it in there.

I get what you’re saying, but would love to see a true side-by-side NE IPA comparing trub and no trub. Bottle condition and see which one darkens first!

I hate to be the guy that says, it works for me, so I don’t believe it. Show me some data!

 

[couchsending]

I get what you’re saying, but would love to see a true side-by-side NE IPA comparing trub and no trub. Bottle condition and see which one darkens first!

I hate to be the guy that says, it works for me, so I don’t believe it. Show me some data!

I'll take the word of the best brewers in the world in regards to trub carryover into the fermenter. Guys that make the same
beer over and over and over and have the large labs and testing equipment as well as a sensory panel trained to know what
to look for.

There's so much data out there about the oxidative materials found in trub. Hops presence is the first thing to go when oxidation occurs.
I'd want to keep as much oxidation away from my hoppy beers as possible. Yes there are studies out there about the positive nutrients
found in trub but do the positive benefits outweigh the negative? I'd dump whatever you can after 12 hours and 24 hours if you are carrying
break material over into the fermenter.

 

[isomerization]

I'll take the word of the best brewers in the world in regards to trub carryover into the fermenter. Guys that make the same
beer over and over and over and have the large labs and testing equipment as well as a sensory panel trained to know what
to look for.

There's so much data out there about the oxidative materials found in trub. Hops presence is the first thing to go when oxidation occurs.
I'd want to keep as much oxidation away from my hoppy beers as possible. Yes there are studies out there about the positive nutrients
found in trub but do the positive benefits outweigh the negative? I'd dump whatever you can after 12 hours and 24 hours if you are carrying
break material over into the fermenter.

We both know that commercial and homebrew scale often don’t align. That’s likely the reason for so many unnecessary “boogie men” in this industry.

If I had a way to drop trub, I would! Sadly I have 2 kids and 1 more on the way (jk kids I love you), so that investment will have to wait for now.

EDIT: found this article,
http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/trub-seperation-why-and-how/

I’m interested to try a batch where I remove all the trub prior to pitching yeast, would just use a bucket with spigot and settle out trub (in a fridge) prior to transfer and pitching yeast.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I hate to be the guy that says, it works for me, so I don’t believe it. Show me some data!

I agree. Most breweries send the wort through a plate chiller (or similar) so they need to limit how much matter goes into their chiller and pumps. There is probably some downstream impact as well. That does not really apply to me. I have seen plenty of evidence that "trub" into the fermenter does not have a big impact (at least on the homebrew scale). I am not sure I have seen much research into hop matter, especially given the massive amounts of hops that are added to beers like NEIPA which are often added well below boiling temps. I could easily see flameout hops contributing pleasing hop flavors/aroma in the fermenter...or I could also see them adding grassy/vegetable qualities. Are they going to be that much different than dry hops added on day 2?

 

[wepeeler]

This is something I have been researching online, with my home brew club and with other brewers for a few years now, and my conclusion has been it really doesn't matter on the small home brew scale ie 5 gallons. I've made about 30 neipas in the past 18 months, and with most of them, I've dumped everything into the fermenter. Never had a beer brown. Never had a beer drop in aroma. Although, I recently bought another fermenter. It'd be interesting to see if I split a 10 gallon batch and did a filtered wort vs not filtered and see if I could differentiate.

 

[Homergah]

I get a good centralized hop pie in the middle of my BK after a final whirlpool and pump over to fermenter. I don't go to any extraordinary means of excluding anything from the fermentor. But I don't just dump it in either. I'll end up with a little bit of debrit in the fermentor but nothing on a large scale. This pretty much mimics what I've done professionally. With the exception that my professionally made beers are excellent, and my homebrew is not.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Whats the difference between NEIPA and any other hoppy beer. I've always used a hop bag but my last batch I just threw the hops in to see if I got any "better" flavor. Transferred every bit of trub hop material into the fermenter. It made an Awesome beer. I have one going now the same way and I'm expecting the same results. I kick a keg in a couple weeks so oxidation isnt much of an issue for me

 

[homebrewdude76]

I have been 100% transferring everything from the boil kettle to fermenter, but I go into the conical. Some hours later I dump the bottom and pitch the yeast. My next batch I am going to use my hop back with leaf hops in a bag for the last part of the whirlpool. This will act like a filter and remove most large parts. I was wondering if excluding the hops and break would cause issue. So looks like it won't, and some say it doesn't matter. Thanks

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

All hops are dumped loose into the kettle. I whirlpool and let it settle into a nice cone. Then I draw my wort for the fermenter from the edge of the kettle. That's the extent of limiting trub and hop matter from making the trip to the fermenter.

I've had no issues with browning or premature flavor fade on my NEIPAs, but they've all been gone within 6 weeks of kegging.