NEIPA and LODO

[JimRausch]

Here's a question for discussion: It's apparent that oxidation is a particularly bad problem for NEIPAs. If you keg, then you can take precautions to limit O2 exposure. But what about us bottlers?
My thought is taken from a common practice among wine producers: They (we) use Camden every time we rack in order to reduce the oxygenation. So, does it make sense to rack onto 1 Camden tab in my bottling bucket? 1 per 5G won't stun the yeast (plus there's plenty of suspended yeast in a NEIPA) but might help scavenge some of the oxygen that would be inadvertently introduced, no matter how careful you are during bottling. The main Q I have, is would there be enough time to dissipate the SO2? Wine bottles aren't cracked open for a year or so, so plenty of time for it to dissipate. But what about beer that I'd start consuming 2-3 weeks after bottling? Thoughts?

 

[thehaze]

I too bottle and have experienced oxidation with NEIPAs. There are some things you can do to limit O2 exposure. Purge any headspace with CO2, also the bottling bucket and the bottles themselves. Add whirlfloc or similar at the end of boil and perform a whirlpool, do not cold crash, bottle quick and consume quicker. With proper process, you will see plentiful carbonation after 5-6 days. Taste there and if it tastes good, you can wait to drink or throw the bottles in a fridge or a cooler space. I would also try to avoid using too much flaked anything, but that's me.

I brewed a couple of NEIPAs, but now I brew hybrids, meaning I use a simple grainbill, mash high, use loads of hops, a good yeast strain, ferment quick and bottle quicker, and I skip adding hops during fermentation and wait after. I only dry hop for 2-3 days at most. Beers tend to be hazy. Some things I have not yet managed to get, like a really thick mouthfeel and smoothness, but it's coming.

I would not add Campden, but I do use Brewtan B in the mash and boil.

As fot waiting 2-3 weeks to drink IPAs: that's a long time, but it also depends what kind of IPA we are talking about and how good ( or not ) your process has been.

 

[specharka]

A lot of brewers use Campden tablets in their mash liquor to preclude the formation of chlorophenols and arrest mash oxidation. The sulfites in the mash convert to harmless sulfates in the boil and don’t appreciably affect the flavor. My gut feeling is that any Campden added after fermentation is complete will result in high levels of sulfites in the finished beer, since brewers don’t wait nearly as long after racking as vintners do to package and serve.

However, you can still scavenge oxygen from your serving vessel by krausening the beer. The addition of fresh yeast and wort to a finished beer will reduce dissolved oxygen to imperceptible levels and preserve the beer. If you don’t have the capability to perform a closed transfer to a serving keg, adding a small amount of actively fermenting yeast to your beer is a great way to arrest the effects of oxygen ingress due to bottling.

 

[JimRausch]

Thanks guys! I was worried that adding some metabisulfite might lead to off-flavors due to not enough time for the SO2 to degas.
thehaze- I would love to try some BrewtanB, but haven't seen it available in the US yet. Hard to purge with CO2 if you don't have a tank . If I did, I might just get everything else to keg. And my 2-3 week comment is just because that's the length of time I tend to bottlecarb everything. Not that I don't sample before...... . For a NEIPA, it makes sense to start drinking earlier.
specharka- good idea on the krausening. A little difficult to get the carbonation level right since I bottle, but I did do it once (for practice) and can do the math if I need to. A member of my local homebrew club who happens to be a bit of a genius on all things fermentation suggested bottling with a bit of CBC-1 or EC-118 to get a quick bottle fermentation. Not sure it's necessary to add more yeast in a NEIPA, but it couldn't hurt.

 

[specharka]

Thanks guys! I was worried that adding some metabisulfite might lead to off-flavors due to not enough time for the SO2 to degas.
thehaze- I would love to try some BrewtanB, but haven't seen it available in the US yet. Hard to purge with CO2 if you don't have a tank . If I did, I might just get everything else to keg. And my 2-3 week comment is just because that's the length of time I tend to bottlecarb everything. Not that I don't sample before...... . For a NEIPA, it makes sense to start drinking earlier.
specharka- good idea on the krausening. A little difficult to get the carbonation level right since I bottle, but I did do it once (for practice) and can do the math if I need to. A member of my local homebrew club who happens to be a bit of a genius on all things fermentation suggested bottling with a bit of CBC-1 or EC-118 to get a quick bottle fermentation. Not sure it's necessary to add more yeast in a NEIPA, but it couldn't hurt.

The purpose of adding fresh, active yeast is to encourage propagation and promote oxygen uptake (aerobic fermentation) by the yeast. Your beer will certainly have enough cells to bottle condition itself, but by the time the suspended yeast consumes the sugars, the beer will have become irreparable oxidized.

You don’t need much active yeast for krausening to work (1-2 grams per 5 gal is enough), and you can use CBC-1 or EC-1118 (avoid using a more attenuative ale strain though), but the key is to make sure the conditioning yeast and sugar is actively fermenting before you pitch it. FWIW, I use this method for carbonating my sours and they never develop pellicles in the bottle, which is indicative that oxygen uptake by the yeast has been successful.

 

[corax]

I would love to try some BrewtanB, but haven't seen it available in the US yet.

William's has it:
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Brewtan-B-P4461.aspx

I think a couple others have it too, but I can't remember who.

 

[thehaze]

I know Themaltmiller UK carries it: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/brewtan-b-50g/

I don't know if they send overseas, but I live in Europe so that's easier.

But I think some AU websites have it as well: https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/brewtan-b

Can also be found on ebay, but I have not used them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brewtan-B-...ved-Shelf-Life-Stability-Flavor-/272890481964

Other websites:

https://onlinebrewingsupplies.com/finings/brewtan-b-enhanced-clarity-and-stability

https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pr... 1 LB--brewtan-b-1-lb-formerly-called-tanal-b

https://homebrewsupplies.ca/product/460-brewtan-b-1-oz/

50 gr which is like 1.8 oz, I have enough for 20-25 batches.

 

[couchsending]

Brewers Friend has a krausening calculator

 

[couchsending]

Brewers Friend has a krausening calculator

 

[Queequeg]

If you have bottle an IPA then my advice is do not use a bottling bucket. Make your priming solution and then use a syringe to dispense the appropriate volume to each bottle.

If you have access to CO2 then you can refill the head space on the fermenter. You could also do this by collecting CO2 in punch balloons during fermentation.

The next step up is then a beer gun as you can purge the bottle and the end space.