Needing some guidance

[Romex2121]

I’m having some issues with getting My blonde ales crisp and clean , I brew AG and use a 5 gal. Igloo as a MT so far I prefer the light ales And have brewed Biermunchers centennial Blonde a few times and Brulosophers best Blonde Ale twice ,, they come out ok but seem kinda blah and lacking ,, with all the compliments these two guys get with their beers it’s got to be something on my end that’s not right ,,
I follow the recipes to the tee including fermenting temps and times ..
I’m wondering if it’s my water that’s causing issues , I have no idea what’s in my tap water but it seems good for drinking (I’ve had worse) , So far I’ve tried half tap (used campden tabs) half RO,, 100% RO which made the finished beer seem kinda flat and lacking,, I’ve also used 100% spring (Bottled) water but still can’t seem to get a good clean,crisp flavor , as of yet I’ve never tried building a water profile I’ve read a lot about it but don’t quite understand it
ive also tried different levels of carbing ( bottles) thinking that would help..
There’s a beer called
Pistol Pete’s 1888 (4.8abv / 20 IBU) that a Craft brewer in Albuquerque NM. makes and sells here in Carlasbad NM. its a Blonde Ale but it’s got a Lager Type quality it’s crisp , clean and has a nice hop flavor to it without being bitter ..
this is what I think a blonde ale should be but so far mine hasn’t made it there yet ,,

 

[NeoBrew]

It might help if you let us know about your fermentation process and equipment. That might be part of the process that’s causing you trouble. Particularly oxidation somewhere along the way.

also, water profiles are daunting. Pick up BrewNWater. It does all the calculations for you so you can lessen your learning curve significantly. Water chemistry is probably important for what you are trying to do.

 

[Coastalbrew]

X2 for brun' water. Also give this thread a good read. A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

 

[monkeymath]

You describe your beers as "blah and lacking" in contrast to commercial examples which you find "crisp and clean". I assume you find your beer lacking in bright, fresh flavours?
I think this is a very typical "homebrew flavour". I've rarely had a homebrew, be it my own or others', that did not suffer from that defect to some extent. And I'm sure a lot of the people praising the recipes actually get the same kind of flavour.

The exact cause is hard to determine. I've found that quickly chilling the wort after the boil had a great impact (I used to let the wort cool overnight). Pitching active yeast, thereby reducing the lag time until fermentation kicks off, should also help.
Now, almost all instructions you find tell you to take a lot of gravity samples so as to determine the end of fermentation. I find this to be a vector for cold-side oxidation, which should be avoided. Just keep the young beer in the fermenter a couple days longer. That also aids the maturation.

 

[Romex2121]

Gonna try to explain how I did last batch of Cenntenial blonde ale without being long winded ,, used brewersfriend to scale to 3 gal. Think I used 2 gal tap water and the rest RO , milled grain and set water out day before with maybe a 1/4 Campden Tablet to remove chlorine in tap water,, Brew day I mashed and sparged as normal per recipe .....
now that I think about it when I drained MT I drained wort into a different kettle because I was using my BK to heat sparge water , once sparge water was put into MT I dumped first running (wort) into my BK , I’m wondering if this could have caused hot side oxidation issues ??
Once all wort was collected it was boiled for the 60 min. hops added per recipie,,
Cooled wort with immersion chiller tried whirlpooling but it never works for me , drained wort to Carboy With siphon trying to avoid trub at bottom of kettle , everything was sanitized with starsan prior to using ,, I can’t remember but I may have put wort into fermentation fridge to get to pitching temp (65 degrees) cause wort was still to warm, pitched yeast ( US-05) following day ,, I did pull a few samples thru out fermentation to check FG ,, I don’t use any Co2 so oxygen more than likely got into carboy when samples were taken ,, After FG was reached I let it go for another week then took temp down to 40 ish for maybe 3 days then siphoned to bottling bucket primed ( 2.7 carb ) with sugar , gently stirred and bottled , bottles set at 71 or so for 3 weeks ,, chilled 1 for a couple days and tried it it was pretty good I thought so I put the case in the fridge to chill for about a week then started drinking and this is when I noticed the beer tasted kinda heavy and blah for lack of a better word ,, it just didn’t have that clean crisp taste that you would expect a light ale to have , bottles did carb up ok , there’s also a very slight off taste that I can’t explain ...
This is why I’m wondering about water and since NeoBrew brought up Potential oxidation issues that’s got me concerned as well.....
Not sure what I can do about oxygen if not kegging or purging vessels with gas .....

 

[Romex2121]

I’m thinking about brewing same beer again tomorrow but since we have no LHBS here there’s no way to get anything to treat water ,, What water would you suggest if not adding anything ?
RO , bottled spring ??
Tap water may be fine but not knowing for sure yet I’d rather use something else and see if it makes a difference.....

 

[Dland]

As others have said, it could be a few things. Could be water, (there is a lot of that in beer), could be oxidation after fermentation, in mild does comes out less crisp, kind of bla, more and one starts to get the "wet cardboard" flavor.

If your mash temp is higher, your going to get more unfermentable sugars, which takes away from "crisp" in my opinion. For clean as in drier, keep mash temp at or just below 150F.

Your fermentation temp with US-05 is good. You aged it long enough, but for crisp and clear, I would suggest aging it very cold the whole time.

For really crisp, cold fermented lager yeast is good, but I've made some good clear blonde and cream ales with that yeast around that fermentation temp.

 

[NeoBrew]

Gonna try to explain how I did last batch of Cenntenial blonde ale without being long winded ,, used brewersfriend to scale to 3 gal. Think I used 2 gal tap water and the rest RO , milled grain and set water out day before with maybe a 1/4 Campden Tablet to remove chlorine in tap water,, Brew day I mashed and sparged as normal per recipe .....
now that I think about it when I drained MT I drained wort into a different kettle because I was using my BK to heat sparge water , once sparge water was put into MT I dumped first running (wort) into my BK , I’m wondering if this could have caused hot side oxidation issues ??
Once all wort was collected it was boiled for the 60 min. hops added per recipie,,
Cooled wort with immersion chiller tried whirlpooling but it never works for me , drained wort to Carboy With siphon trying to avoid trub at bottom of kettle , everything was sanitized with starsan prior to using ,, I can’t remember but I may have put wort into fermentation fridge to get to pitching temp (65 degrees) cause wort was still to warm, pitched yeast ( US-05) following day ,, I did pull a few samples thru out fermentation to check FG ,, I don’t use any Co2 so oxygen more than likely got into carboy when samples were taken ,, After FG was reached I let it go for another week then took temp down to 40 ish for maybe 3 days then siphoned to bottling bucket primed ( 2.7 carb ) with sugar , gently stirred and bottled , bottles set at 71 or so for 3 weeks ,, chilled 1 for a couple days and tried it it was pretty good I thought so I put the case in the fridge to chill for about a week then started drinking and this is when I noticed the beer tasted kinda heavy and blah for lack of a better word ,, it just didn’t have that clean crisp taste that you would expect a light ale to have , bottles did carb up ok , there’s also a very slight off taste that I can’t explain ...
This is why I’m wondering about water and since NeoBrew brought up Potential oxidation issues that’s got me concerned as well.....
Not sure what I can do about oxygen if not kegging or purging vessels with gas .....

There is not going to be any shortcut for you on water chemistry. Either you just use what you have available or you find/get a water analysis. We can't advise you on your tap water or potential spring water because it could have a starting water chemistry anywhere on the spectrum. If you want to use distilled or RO water and build it up, then you can be pretty certain what the water chemistry will be. There were a couple sources mentioned above that you could try.

Moving your wort when it is hot can be an oxidation issue, but if you were at mashing temps, IMHO, it would be pretty minimal. Some who believe in Low Oxygen brewing might tell you that's a big deal.

Pitching yeast sooner after brewing might be helpful. It helps stave off possible infection. Using liquid yeast that has been grown up to the proper pitching size and doing a vitality starter would all help your fermentation get off to a better start. I don't use dry yeast much, but pitching more than one pack could also help depending on the starting gravity of the beer.

Stop taking samples during fermentation. Every time you open the fermenter you are introducing oxygen. That oxygen is SURE to oxidize your beer and cause it to stale and have off flavors. My method is to ferment until all apparent activity has stopped. (No bubbles in airlock, no krausen) Then I let it sit for one week after that just to be sure the yeast is done cleaning up. I will typically do one gravity check after fermentation, but I do it AFTER I transferred my beer using some of the last of what comes out of the fermenter.

There is only so much you can do to prevent oxidation when bottle conditioning. Unless you are willing to purchase a keg to transfer into you will just need to be careful not to disturb the beer any more than necessary, bottle efficiently, and cap as soon as possible. Sounds like you are already bottle conditioning figured out. Getting the yeast to work right away at about 70F is going to eat up the oxygen as best as possible.

If this really is your quest, you may want to look into kegging and alternate fermenters. Doing closed transfers into a purged vessel is going to help you avoid oxygenation. If you really want to go off the deep end and try to perfect your technique, look into Low Oxygen brewing. I don't practice hot side Low Oxygen, but I'm a big believer in the cold side processes of it.

 

[bracconiere]

there’s no way to get anything to treat water

ebay should have everything....

in mild does comes out less crisp, kind of bla,

LOL, glad i'm not the only one....

 

[Dland]

LOL, glad i'm not the only one....

I would hope that anyone has devoted a big chunk of their limited time alive to brewing has eliminated most if not all post fermentation oxidation.

 

[bracconiere]

limited time alive to brewing

just had my 42 grams of flax seeds.....working on my sunflower seeds....both my parents were straight edges, dad died at 62, mom at 72....oughta be interesting how long i last....

edit: and nope, i still suck siphon into my kegs from an open plastic bucket......sometimes i don't even purge them, unless i'm feeling friskie.....but i'm thinking purging helps them carb quicker, so i've been doing more often lately....i assume i'm not the only one that still uses one of these?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/racking-cane-siphon-kit-12.html
edit #2: especially now i can see the tank go down only about a tenth of an ounce for a purge and i'm not worried about wasting co2 anymore.....LOL