Need some advice from the married folks

[EdWort]

we firmly believe that placing ourselves in any sort of situation that could become "compromised" is just not worth stressing our marriage over.

I am an airline captain, I am away from home for 4-5 days a week. I fly with flight attendants and stay at the same hotels. Many married men go out to dinner with and have drinks with thier flight crews (females included). It is just friendly right? As far as I am concerned, I am a husband and a father, doing a job... and if my wife is not here, I am not going to be spending time with any other women over dinner, nor will I be accompanying my single male first officers to the bars. It is not a question of trust to me, it is a question of what is appropriate given the fact that I am a husband, father, and a professional who is away at work.

Excellent advice to any married man here. As someone who spends a 100 or so nights away a year on business, it's something I have followed as well and I've been married 23 years to my first and only wife.

We both have our guys & girls weekends, but both are with other married people.

 

[The Pol]

I will admit, personally my view on this changed DRASTICALLY when I got married. When I was single, I didnt see a problem with a married man having female friends, even close friends, that he associated with regularly, they were friends, right? It isnt about friends, it isnt about trust... it is about the fact that most close friendships are based on sharing a part of yourself, intimate feelings, ideas, fears and such with those friends. Those need to be shared with your spouse, that is what makes you ONE, you do not want to share those things with persons of the opposite sex with whome you are not married, boundaries are important. Not because if trust, but because of respect and devotion.
Compromising positions are created when boundaries are compromised. I ask myself, is the net gain of having the company of a female flight attendant, no matter how innocent, worth the net loss if it even for a second raises doubts in my wifes mind? NO WAY, God, Spouse, Children, Beer, Flying.
I love my wife, no vacation to Hedonism or plate of boneless wings at Applebees with a middle aged flight attendant is worth raising her suspicions. Id rather go camping in a tent and eat Chef Boyardee in my hotel room while wathing Discovery.

 

[srm775]

Really great response. I think you hit the nail on the head with your example. Its not about trust AT ALL. I trust my wife. Its about what I feel is RIGHT. And I just dont feel its right for her to want to go on yet another vacation with single girls to a third world country. I got a sickly feeling in my stomach just typing out that sentence. Its not the same as a trip to San Fransico with the girls, or renting a cabin in the mountains with the girls. Its a married woman going to a singles resort in a third world country with a bunch of single girls, several of whom I believe to show very questionable behavior at times. Now I am a libertarian with a little "l". I think adults should be able to do just about anything they want so long as they are not infringing on the rights of others. Its non of my business. But where my wife goes and who she associates with is my business bc it affects our marriage and our family.

Thanks for the response Pol.

I think it's a dead issue because from the sounds of it, you worked it out with SWMBO. But, what I find the most startling is the fact that it's a 10 DAY vacation. There is a world of difference between a girls weekend in Vegas or some other city and a 10 day vacation to a resort in the Dominican. Frankly, neither my wife, nor I would want to be away from each other that long.

 

[Kevin Dean]

I read a lot of the posts from other people, but stopped because they're long. Here are my summed up opinions:

1. Her safety. The most dangerous thing most people do on a daily basis is drive. She's more likely to die going to work than on a vacation. Everything we do is a tradeoff of risk versus gain. In the case of trips the gain is a lack of stress and a sense of adventure which are very VERY real.

2. Single friends. The most blunt answer I have is: If you fear she'll do it, she already is. If you are afraid that your wife MIGHT cheat on you, you're getting vibes from somewhere.

3. Money. I think the_bird mentioned this one, but it's double-edged. If she can't spend money how she wants, it's unfair to spend non-chalantly. Even as a brewer, I consider it a frivolous hobby and a hell of a money sink. My wife and I are secure enough to spend money on our hobbies but we both know that in the event of an uncertain circumstance I'm not going to be doing any new aquisitions of gear, and frankly I wouldn't WANT to.

It's hard to give advice from a bird's-eye view because relationships are so complex, but I wouldn't bet my livelyhood on that marriage working long term without serious intervention on both sides.

You don't need to apologize for it, but your view about her safety is sexist but even more, you are saying very clearly that because she's a woman she needs a man to keep her safe. Slice that how you will, that is saying your wife is inferior; not a good signal to send.

On the flip side, what is so wrong with her life that your wife is constantly in need of escaping?

I did want to make a comment regarding someone's comment though...

I agree with you – the group mentality in a situation like that, plus the alcohol that’s likely to be involved can very easily lead her to do something she normally wouldn’t do.

I disagree with the entire premise of this statement for one reason. Alcohol decreases inhibitions but it doesn't change morality. Being drunk has been used as an excuse for beating and raping people. Even more so, some people claim that "hard" drugs like heroine and crack "cause" people to do bad things.

If you agree with that statement, ask yourself how drunk you need to be before you'd toss your grandmother's salad.

Alcohol (and other drugs) make people do things that they are unlikely to do sober but they will NEVER do things they would never do. This is why I support the legalization of ALL drugs rather than the criminalization of some. If any drug "makes" people do things then we DO need to ban them all including alcohol that we all so strongly believe is a wonderful thing when respected.

If his wife will cheat on him drunk, she'll do it sober. It might just take a little longer.

 

[homebrewer_99]

All good advice as far as I can tell.

If I were you I would sit her down and tell her your thoughts (about worrying about her welfare, etc.) then tell her to have a good time...

 

[njnear76]

I think it's a dead issue because from the sounds of it, you worked it out with SWMBO. But, what I find the most startling is the fact that it's a 10 DAY vacation. There is a world of difference between a girls weekend in Vegas or some other city and a 10 day vacation to a resort in the Dominican. Frankly, neither my wife, nor I would want to be away from each other that long.

Holy crap! Yes I would have to agree with that one. Ten days is a long time. My wife visits her friend (who is married) several times throughout the year but her visits are 2-4 days in length.

Besides, my wife couldn't tell a lie to save her life. I can't either. Both of us would never do anything to harm our marriage.

 

[TheJadedDog]

Holy crap! Yes I would have to agree with that one. Ten days is a long time. My wife visits her friend (who is married) several times throughout the year but her visits are 2-4 days in length.

Besides, my wife couldn't tell a lie to save her life. I can't either. Both of us would never do anything to harm our marriage.

I think I've been married too long. 10 days to myself sounds like heaven.

 

[Joker]

The only place my wife goes for 10 days alone is to see her family and that is only because I stay here to pay the bills. If it is a vacation location we are going together, its the way we both want it.

 

[kornkob]

On the subject of friends of opposing genders:

While most of the opinions seem to be 'that don't work', have a different perspective. I am in a long term monogomous relationship and neither of us gave up freindships (or acquaintces) with other people just because they were of opposite genders. Many of those friends aren't shared between us. I dont' know all of her friends and she does not know all of mine.

On the other hand we respect each other and our freinds enough that the boundaries are clear. We've both had to tell people to back off a bit and we've shared those expereinces with each other.

I'm not saying it works for everyone but I don't believe that denying each other healthy adult relationships with people of other genders would make our relationship any better and would certainly make our lives less rich. As with most things in a relationship the key elements that mak this work are respect and honesty.


We both have same sex gay friends but they don't really have any bearing on this as we are both strongly hetero.

10+ years in all is well.

And to be clear: We are wholly monogomous. We also take separate vacations an she travels about 35% of the time for her work. We are not a perfect couple either--- we have had our rough patches but it has never been about outside friendships.

 

[srm775]

I disagree with the entire premise of this statement for one reason. Alcohol decreases inhibitions but it doesn't change morality. Being drunk has been used as an excuse for beating and raping people. Even more so, some people claim that "hard" drugs like heroine and crack "cause" people to do bad things.

If you agree with that statement, ask yourself how drunk you need to be before you'd toss your grandmother's salad.

Alcohol (and other drugs) make people do things that they are unlikely to do sober but they will NEVER do things they would never do. This is why I support the legalization of ALL drugs rather than the criminalization of some. If any drug "makes" people do things then we DO need to ban them all including alcohol that we all so strongly believe is a wonderful thing when respected.

If his wife will cheat on him drunk, she'll do it sober. It might just take a little longer.

I'm certainly don't want to start a debate about this, but I have one thing to say. Whether you agree with it or not, the reality of it is that it does happen. You take one person out of their normal everyday life, and drop them in the middle of a "blow off steam" exotic tropical vacation with a group of people, couple that with large amounts of alcohol and that person's behavior will be considerably different than it normally would be.

Sure, they might not have an overly strong desire to "toss their grandma's salad" but you add the right amount of group encouragement, lots of alcohol, the ability to not get caught and the means ... and it's quite possible that someone would have an affair when they normally wouldn't. Does that mean they would cheat regardless? Maybe, maybe not? Does that mean he should give the green light to it? No, I don't think so.

 

[rdwj]

I disagree with the entire premise of this statement for one reason. Alcohol decreases inhibitions but it doesn't change morality. Being drunk has been used as an excuse for beating and raping people. Even more so, some people claim that "hard" drugs like heroine and crack "cause" people to do bad things.

If you agree with that statement, ask yourself how drunk you need to be before you'd toss your grandmother's salad.

Alcohol (and other drugs) make people do things that they are unlikely to do sober but they will NEVER do things they would never do. This is why I support the legalization of ALL drugs rather than the criminalization of some. If any drug "makes" people do things then we DO need to ban them all including alcohol that we all so strongly believe is a wonderful thing when respected.

If his wife will cheat on him drunk, she'll do it sober. It might just take a little longer.

I've done things because I was drunk that I wouldn't have done sober. I haven't done anything really stupid in a LONG time, but I have done them. I'm to the point now where I have a wife and kids to think about, so I have more to lose than I did when I was younger. Because of that, I avoid putting myself into situations where bad things can happen.

I don't think I'd cheat on my wife, but sucking down tropical drinks in a hot tub with bikini clad, horny girls would sure tempt me and I KNOW that. It would tempt just about ANY heterosexual guy. Because I KNOW I can be tempted, I make a conscious effort NOT to put myself in situations where tempting things are likely to happen.

Singles resorts ARE a tempting environment - I think we can ALL agree on that. Why put yourself in a tempting situation like that? ...especially when you KNOW your single friends are going to be looking to have the type of fun you shouldn't be involved in? There are plenty of less tempting things you can do with your single friends if that's truly what you want to do. If you let the woman you love run off to a place like that with your APPROVAL, you're just asking for trouble.

 

[njnear76]

I think it depends on the circumstances and your own comfort level.

My wife wants to take a trip with her family and I don't have the time off. It's affordable and I'm cool with it.

I wouldn't be cool be cool with an expensive trip under the circumstances that you are talking about.

 

[kornkob]

Drugs and alcohol do lower inhibitions but they also have a negative impact on decision making ability and logical thought processes. When presented with a choice when impaired a person might very well make a decision they would never make when sober.

Taken to extreme, when someone is in a blackout they are very suggestible and can be easily convinced to do something 'willingly' that they'd not get caught dead doing if they were even remotely sober.

Anyone who hasn't seen, heard about or actually made a horrible and out of character choice when drunk or high has lived a sheltered life indeed.


None of that says that the drug or alcohol 'makes' the person do any of these things. It does, however, put someone in a state of mind that is inheriently altered. This does not mean you are seeing the 'real person' or that what you are seeing is somehow more 'honest' than the sober person. I means you are seeing that person under the influence of that drug.

 

[jas0420]

I think it's a dead issue because from the sounds of it, you worked it out with SWMBO. But, what I find the most startling is the fact that it's a 10 DAY vacation. There is a world of difference between a girls weekend in Vegas or some other city and a 10 day vacation to a resort in the Dominican. Frankly, neither my wife, nor I would want to be away from each other that long.

Oh, wow... I missed the "10 days" part when I first read this and made my comment indicating that I wouldn't mind.

A weekend or a long weekend, I wouldn't mind.... 10 days though, I don't think either my wife or I are even brave enough to ask the other that question! Those would be fightin' words!!!

Sounds like it's a moot point though and things are ironed out now... good to hear! A new kitchen is something you both can enjoy and eventually recoup the expense of. The faucets with the pull-out head are incredibly helpful in many brewing tasks... Be sure to splurge and buy her one of those!

 

[CodeRage]

Man thats tough. I've had to deal with those financial arguments and they were never fun. Usually a week or two later she would come around and see the logic behind it and agrees. Usually during the argument she is emotionally drivin so I dont push the issue because it wont get me any where... I just plant a seed or two by making it clear how I feel.

10 days in DR with a bunch of single friends would fly like a lead fart with me too... a 2 or 3 days girls cruise.. maybe... not a week and a half in DR. Aint cheap either...

 

[uglygoat]

i'd rather go to europe or the badlands for ten days.

can't help you with the $$$ cause my swmbo handles that.

can't help you on the trust swmbo issue, cause i'm not in your shoes. imo, if swmbo wants to have a fling on the side, she doesn't have to travel further than 30 minutes via car to do so. trust is something earned, but also tempered by time. love is not jealous etc....

 

[ohiobrewtus]

It does sound like you and your wife have some things that you need to get worked out for the sake of strengthening your relationship.

Before my wife and I got married (2nd marriage for both of us) we decided that it would be best to hammer out a lot of things related to vacations, money and some other issues. We agreed how money would be spent, shared, etc. We have a plan in place on what we're doing with tax returns, bonuses, etc. over the next couple of years.

I make the majority of the money and basically get an 'allowance' to do with whatever I please (which 90% of the time is brewing stuff), and I'm ok with that. We're a team and it's not *my* money it's *our* money. There are times like last week when I'm looking at a $3k bonus check in my hands and I think about all of the grain and brewing toys that I could buy, but in the end it's better spent going towards future vacations, kids college funds and so forth.

We agreed that vacations away from each other are not something that either one of us is interested in with the exception of semi-local overnight trips. She's gone to put-in-bay with her friends overnight and I've gone to a Lions game with buddies and crashed in Detroit for the night. We completely trust each other, but as someone else said earlier, we decided to just avoid situations that could make the other person uncomfortable or lead to questionable behavior.

This may sound corny, but I don't think that I would *want* to spend 10 days away from my wife. What good is a vacation that long if you're not getting any?

 

[CodeRage]

What good is a vacation that long if you're not getting any?

AMEN brother!

 

[modenacart]

AMEN brother!

That is when its the best too, on vacation.

I must be the luckest man alive, my wife is cheaper than I am so she makes way more than she spends so just based on that I wouldn't have to worry about her wanting to take a 10 day vacation without me. I have to travel a lot more than I want to, but I try to make every attempt to bring her with me and she makes every attemp to go. We have not been married long, just about five years, but I don't see this changing anytime soon. I have had to be away from my wife for more than 10 days at a time and its not something I want to personally have to do again. I don't know about you but I just sleep better when she is beside me at night. I wouldn't be worried about what my wife would do on a ten day trip, but I do wanted her home because it makes it a lot easier on my rutine. I guess its selfish, but I guess that is just the way I see it.

 

[zugzwang56]

Honestly to me it sounds like there may be some underlying issues in your relationship that are making you uneasy about this whole thing. You mentioned most of them. Finances - you both need to be on the same page in terms of this as I have seen two very close married couples divorce in the last year due to simple finances and not being on the same page. It sounds stupid that something as simple as sitting down, setting standards on spending and sticking to them can cause such a mess. It is the leading cause of divorce in America.
Also, trust - even though you say that it is not an issue at all, you still, throughout the thread mention her "single" friends as a complete negative. It leads me to think that deep down you have some doubt, whether it be small in the tinyest bit, is still down there. Which is completely normal. Though if she is commited to you she will be fine. Also ask yourself if you were going down there with a bunch of your single friends, would you be able to contain yourself, have a good time but in the right way? If you can honestly say so then chances are she can to.

Also, how important is this to her? Would her not going be a big issue due to your discomfort? Would her anger at not going be greater than your anger at her going? Kind of a lesser of two evils type deal. Opportunity cost if you will.
The enjoyment she would get in going =(greater than)= the anger you have + the cost of her trip?

Something to think about

 

[sudsmonkey]

!8 years here.

Money is always an issue that you both have to look after. Debt can be a horrible thing if you let it go. Resentments build, relationships crumble as blame is placed, etc.
Your wife's travel hobby could be expensive. It's up to you to decide what's cool for you. My wife is into horses. I feed them, trim their hooves, and build shelters for them. I don't ride anymore, but I still go on trailrides with her. It's a great excuse to camp out and drink beer. Occasionally, I have to rein her in on some things. Right now, it's a new horse trailer. Thing is, I love her and want her to be happy. Horses make her very happy. As long as we can do that reasonably(I still have beer and knife making money) everything's fine. I call it compromise.

10 days??? Think of it this way: How would she like it if you were going to Bangkok for 10 days with a bunch of single guys? It's not really a trust issue, but more of a matter of putting yourself in that situation. Drinks are flowing, everybody else is hooking up, spouse is a thousand miles away. Things can happen. She shouldn't put you through that. I don't know how to explain that without not sounding like you trust her. When we are sober and near home, we think rationally. Far away, who knows? Imagine if you guys happen to argue on the phone while she's down there. You'll worry yourself sick !

Sorry. I thought I had an easy answer and good advice. I'm going to find out where my wife is!

 

[joejaz]

I've been married 34 years, can my wife go with them?

 

[sudsmonkey]

I've been married 34 years, can my wife go with them?

You'uns is one mo' funny man!