Need help with a stuck fermentation

[pumpkinman2012]

Hi,
I have a real nice 6 gallon batch of Hoptimum (clone) that has stopped fermenting at 1.040, although it tastes fantastic, it is just far too sweet.
I've read just about every post regarding a stuck fermentation, but none that I read really gave a concise answer on how to restart fermentation.
I'm considering adding a packet of EC-1118 yeast to restart it, it won't impart any flavors to the beer, and normally, this yeast can ferment a brick!
The beer starts with a SG of 1.103, I pitched 2 packets of Safale US-05 that I hydrated to ensure a healthy yeast population before pitching.
I've brewed this twice before with no issues, am I safe in pitching the champagne yeast (EC-1118)?
The temp is 67° and the SG hasn't changed in 4 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

The recipe is:

Hoptimum Clone
Imperial IPA (14 C)Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 7.00 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 6.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU

16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 68.8 %
5 lbs Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.5 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Munich (Cargill) (9.5 SRM) Grain 4 5.4 %
1 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 5 4.3 %
1.75 oz Magnum [13.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 54.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs
0.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 12.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 9.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10 9.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 11 5.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 14 -
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.103 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.029 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.9 %
Bitterness: 102.5 IBUs
Est Color: 6.9 SRM Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %

 

[BansheeRider]

Hi,
I have a real nice 6 gallon batch of Hoptimum (clone) that has stopped fermenting at 1.040, although it tastes fantastic, it is just far too sweet.
I've read just about every post regarding a stuck fermentation, but none that I read really gave a concise answer on how to restart fermentation.
I'm considering adding a packet of EC-1118 yeast to restart it, it won't impart any flavors to the beer, and normally, this yeast can ferment a brick!
The beer starts with a SG of 1.103, I pitched 2 packets of Safale US-05 that I hydrated to ensure a healthy yeast population before pitching.
I've brewed this twice before with no issues, am I safe in pitching the champagne yeast (EC-1118)?
The temp is 67° and the SG hasn't changed in 4 days.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

The recipe is:

Hoptimum Clone
Imperial IPA (14 C)Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 7.00 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 6.00 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU

16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 68.8 %
5 lbs Golden Promise (Simpsons) (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.5 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Munich (Cargill) (9.5 SRM) Grain 4 5.4 %
1 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 5 4.3 %
1.75 oz Magnum [13.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 54.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs
0.75 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 12.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 9.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10 9.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 11 5.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 14 -
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.103 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.029 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.9 %
Bitterness: 102.5 IBUs
Est Color: 6.9 SRM Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %

What temp did you mash at?

 

[pumpkinman2012]

I mashed at 156°

 

[BansheeRider]

I mashed at 156°

That might be a little high resulting in un-fermentable sugars. The yeast may be done fermenting and can't "digest" the complex sugars from the high mash temps.

I am still a noob to AG, but from what i understand lower mash temps result in high fermentable sugars. A temp of 152 is a good happy medium. If you want more body then you just raise the temp. If you want a drier beer mash at lower temps.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Understood, was following what Beersmith gave me after loading the recipe. The last two batches fermented without any issues.
Will adding a work horse yeast such as EC-1118 restart the fermentation?

 

[BansheeRider]

Understood, was following what Beersmith gave me after loading the recipe. The last two batches fermented without any issues.
Will adding a work horse yeast such as EC-1118 restart the fermentation?

I am not familiar with that yeast or what flavors it will produce. What is the temp you're fermenting at? Have you tried warming it up and giving it a quick swirl to rouse the yeast?

 

[pumpkinman2012]

67°, and yes.
I'm going to try racking it on top of a yeast cake that I have in the fridge, I've read multiple posts on another beer forum stating this works.
I'll try to remember to post the results.
Thanks

 

[y2jrock60]

You could pitch another packet of 05 or even try a yeast re-energizer enzyme. Personally I would try pitching more yeast. You could also try shacking the fermenter to rouse the yeast.

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[pumpkinman2012]

I racked it onto a yeast cake that I had in the fridge, I now have some activity in the airlock. I'll test the SG in another day or so.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Update:
After racking on top of a yeast cake that I had in the fridge, it appeared that fermentation started up again, but in reality, my SG moved from 1.040 to 1.036 and hasn't moved, I decided to add a nutrient that I use a lot in wine making, Fermaid K, in my opinion, one of the best on the market, right now I have activity in the carboy and airlock, but I've been making wine long enough to know that airlock activity is not a confirmed indication of fermentation.
I'm cautiously optimistic as CO2 is actively being produced.
I'll keep you updated.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

This has been like a bad soap opera...lol....so here is my last effort before I resign to the fact that it isn't going to ferment much more.....repitched a packet of Nottingham, but I'm not holding my breath.
BansheeRider - I think that you hit it spot on regarding the mash temp.

 

[kiblerjd]

There is no way Mashing at 156 would cause this problem. Where is your fermenter physically located? Are you sure it just isn't too cold??? I would move the fermenter to a warmer spot and see what happens. I feel like this is the number 1 culprit and if you are using one of those stick on thermometers on the side of the fermenter they can be way off.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

I appreciate the input, I don't use the stick on thermometers, I just don't have much faith in them, my fermenter is located in my office, it stays between 63° and 68°.
I'll put a heat band on it and see if this can start some activity.
Thanks again.

 

[kiblerjd]

Does your office by any chance have a cement floor? If so get it off the floor.

Also the one thing I have read but have zero experience with is.... For really high gravity brews as the beer ferments the alcohol content goes up and some yeast strains can't handle the alcohol. Might be worth reading about. That may be why some people use the boss yeasts.

Good luck I'm really curious how this one turns out for you.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Thanks,
I'm on a rug floor here, not to say that it can't wick heat away from the beer.
I now have heat on it and it is sitting onto of a wooden crate off the floor.
I'll keep you updated,
Thanks again.

 

[kiblerjd]

Don't get it too warm and take a look to see if your yeast can handle the alcohol content. You brewed a diesel beer there man.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Yep, agreed. It is really a great beer, the part that really has me puzzled is that I've made it twice before with no issues, are you ready for this......I just took a sg reading and it has actually increased from 1.040 to 1.048?!
I used both hydrometers and they read the same, not that I'm an expert, but I've made approx 40-50 all grain brews so far, not to mention the years making wine...this is beyond normal.

 

[kombat]

I just took a sg reading and it has actually increased from 1.040 to 1.048?!

You've made a mistake measuring one or both of the gravity readings. Obviously the gravity cannot actually increase, so either you misread the hydrometer or your beer has stratified and you did not get a sample representative of the actual gravity for either or both readings.

 

[BansheeRider]

Yep, agreed. It is really a great beer, the part that really has me puzzled is that I've made it twice before with no issues, are you ready for this......I just took a sg reading and it has actually increased from 1.040 to 1.048?!
I used both hydrometers and they read the same, not that I'm an expert, but I've made approx 40-50 all grain brews so far, not to mention the years making wine...this is beyond normal.

Actually stuck fermentations are common unfortunately and I agree with the above poster. It comes down to the yeast or your brewing techniques. If you changed nothing in your brewing methods with this batch then I think the yeast is to blame. Maybe you could make a healthy yeast starter with some yeast nutrients. Then rack your beer to a new, clean, and sanitized vessel and start over. Pitch the yeast starter keep the temps around 68-70 degrees and check the gravity again in 10 days. Don't give up yet on this batch.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

BansheeRider,
I won't give up, the worst case scenario, I dry hop it and bottle it as a quick drinker to avoid bottle bombs.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

At this point with heat added, I have a steady activity in the airlock, although airlock activity isn't a positive indication of fermentation, it is a lot more promising than before I added the heat.
I'll wait a few more days before I take another SG reading to see if we are in fact fermenting.

 

[motleybrew]

Keep us posted.

I'm dealing with a similar situation. Mashed at 156, pitched a 2qt. starter of Nottingham. OG was 1.067. After two weeks, the beer looks cleared (though my samples are slightly hazy, and SG has stalled at 1.030. I just pitched a 2 cup starter of more Nottingham this morning. No activity yet, but I'll wait a few days before I recheck.

 

[fearwig]

I've never had a totally stuck fermentation, but I did buy a $5 bottle of amylase so I can troubleshoot whether it's the mash or the yeast when it inevitably happens. People are so quick to assume yeast because they discount the possibility they mismeasured temp during the mash, but that is ridiculously easy to do.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Here is today's update:
Tested the SG once again, it is at 1.034, some fermentation has been going on, real slow, but none the less, it is fermenting.

 

[kiblerjd]

Be careful with your airlock logic. If your airlock is bubbling the beer is fermenting, no doubt about it.

I think some people say that the airlock not bubbling doesn't mean the beer has reached final gravity. This is because towards the end it is fermenting so slowly you cant see it bubbling, but if you sit there for a few hours you may see a bubble go out.

All I know is if your airlock is bubbling its a good sign. I notice you are in NY, same as me. I ferment in my basement with my fermenters hanging on the wall. This is the first winter where I have had to put a brew belt on my fermenter to keep the temps above 60. My basement usually hangs out at around 65 in the winter but it has been parked at 60 or a little less for a few months now. Good luck man.

 

[BackAlley]

Be careful with your airlock logic. If your airlock is bubbling the beer is fermenting, no doubt about it.[/QUOTE

Not 100% accurate. If the beer is saturated with CO2 after a period of fermenting and you then raise the temperature of the beer, you'll drive off CO2 because of the reduced solubility at the higher temp. In this case, you'll see airlock activity that is not a sign of fermentation.




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[kiblerjd]

If your airlock is even bubbling once every couple minutes it is due to fermentation. If you want to see if the cause I CO2 swirl it around a little am see if the airlock goes crazy.

 

[CA_Mouse]

If your airlock is even bubbling once every couple minutes it is due to fermentation. If you want to see if the cause I CO2 swirl it around a little am see if the airlock goes crazy.

^^^^^This is only off gassing.

As a previous poster stated. If you let your fermenter warm up, you will see airlock activity as the CO2 leaves solution. Airlock activity is not a sure sign of active fermentation. Just like a lack of airlock activity is not a sign of a stalled fermentation. A poor seal on the fermenter will allow CO2 to escape without going through the airlock. Only way to know if a fermentation is stuck is by taking a gravity reading, waiting 3 days and taking another reading, increase the heat of the fermenter by 5*F and take a reading after 3 days. If there is a drop in the final gravity after applying the heat, you have found the issue and it should be finishing within 5 days of applying the heat.

 

[kiblerjd]

I'm always up for a friendly debate but I'm not motivated enough to sit down and do the calculations. I guess it's really all relative to how much activity he is seeing. I would love to see some gas law calculations on how much CO2 comes out of solution with a 5-10 degree temp change in beer that was under about 0.5" water column of pressure. I think it is negligible but like I said I'm lazy and still a little hung over from hitting the home brew too hard last night. Cheers.

 

[fearwig]

You get a lot of gas out of a temperature shift (fermenting beer that has never gone over ~60F practically tastes carbed), and I don't think anyone is going to quantify airlock bubbles in a way that allows for calculations. Keep checking SG, that's what matters.

Anyway, I'm still waving a little flag that says "incomplete conversion". Go team.