need help with a high gravity ipa recipe

[gotbags-10]

So I just had my first DFH 120min ipa. I actually thought it was pretty good but a little too hot. So I'd like to try an ipa with a little lower abv. I was looking at yeasts an I want to stay in the range that wlp001 can handle, upwards of 14-15% abv. So looking at an OG of 1.120 and a FG from 1.010 to 1.015. So I will make a big enough starter and add o2 at pitch and probably again 6 hours later. Also use yeast nutrients and mash at 149 degrees. I guess where im stuck is on how much my grain/sugar ratio should be. I probably only plan on doing a 3 gallon batch and with a 10g mash tun cooler I can get a OG of 1.120 just from grains alone without any sugar. But is this wise to do? Would it be too malty for an ipa? If I should add sugar what percentage should it make up of my fermentables? Also I was looking at Beersmith and that would be an 86% attenuation for wlp001. There website says it tops out at 80% but ive seen a bunch of people claiming higher. If it stalls could I just finish it off with EC-118 wine yeast or should I harvest and repitch wlp001? Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[giraffe]

About 20% sugar (by extract, not weight) is fine. That will still have the body of a 1.094 beer or so which is still very thick.
An all grain 1.120 beer will likely be syrupy.

80% is the average range. If you mash low, give it sugar, and give it ideal conditions, you may get higher.

I wouldnt use a wine yeast to repitch if it stalls. Id use a healthy starter of wlp090 or wlp099. Wine yeast may not be able to metabolize all the types of sugar that are left.

 

[gotbags-10]

So sorry I don't really follow on the 20% by extract. I don't really want a thick body. Would like to keep it like an ipa so should I use even more sugar?

 

[giraffe]

Sugar dissolves 100% by weight into fermentables; it is always 100% efficient. Grain does not, it has husks, and the depending on your mash efficiency you will extract only a portion of its weight. An online calculator will do this for you, if you know your mash efficiency. So when giving % it makes sense to do it my % of fermentables in the final wort, (as setups are different), than by weight of raw ingredients.

A thick body in a 1.120 beer is somewhat unavoidable. Mashing low helps, adding sugars helps. But you are at basically twice the gravity of a normal IPA, theres only so much you can do.

I wouldnt use much more than 20% sugar, thats near the upper end where the yeast will start to produce weird flavors. Id use up to 30% in a belgian, but id be nervous going over 20% in a beer like this.

 

[gotbags-10]

So messing with beersmith. If I'm doing a 3G batch 7lbs of 2row and .5lb caramel malt gets me an OG of 1.065. If I add 3.5lb of sugar that gets me up to 1.120. Would that work?

 

[giraffe]

Thats alot of sugar. like 50% of the gravity is coming from sugar. I expect that is going to give you some off flavors, and yeast problems. Maybe someone else has experience using that much, but as I said Id be nervous about more than 20% of the gravity coming from sugar.

 

[gotbags-10]

Ok so 9lb of 2row .5lb caramel malt and 2.5 sugar. That's 20%. What's the preferred sugar to use

 

[giraffe]

Dextrose or Sucrose.

 

[gotbags-10]

Right on thanks for the help giraffe!

 

[joshesmusica]

just to give a little clarification, you're not in an IPA range anymore... You're in the Triple IPA area with that high an OG and ABV. One of the main reasons that it's tasting hot is the high abv compared to low FG, or residual sweetness. making sure body persists is one thing, but having a bit of residual sweetness to balance things out is another. For something that high and that bitter (as i'm assuming a triple IPA is as bitter as you can get), you're gonna want at the lowest a 1.015 before you start getting hotness. I've had that hot character on a 1.085 beer that fermented down to 1.012. Though, one thing that could help is dry hopping, and late hop additions with something like a nelson sauvin that will give a perceived sweetness because of the aroma.
I typed the recipe into beersmith and with that percentage of sugar, it's estimating a 1.007 FG. that's likely gonna be a lot of bitterness with some hot alcohol flavor going on. with an FG of 1.121, that's 15.3% abv.
i'm not saying don't try it, i'm just saying that it's unlikely to avoid that hot flavor with that high abv considering the low FG.

 

[gotbags-10]

Thanks for the tip joshes. I know that I'm going to have some of the alcohol heat just due to the the fact that the abv is so high. I will keep my FG at or slightly above 1.015 then to help. I plan on a big hop oil extract for bittering and then a flame out and big whirlpool hop stand. Followed by a huge 2 part dry hop

 

[joshesmusica]

Thanks for the tip joshes. I know that I'm going to have some of the alcohol heat just due to the the fact that the abv is so high. I will keep my FG at or slightly above 1.015 then to help. I plan on a big hop oil extract for bittering and then a flame out and big whirlpool hop stand. Followed by a huge 2 part dry hop

i'm in norway, and therefore have already had a few... but did you mention what hops you're using?

 

[gotbags-10]

I think I will use the hop extract for bittering and Amarillo with simcoe for flavor and aroma

 

[Aonghus]

So messing with beersmith. If I'm doing a 3G batch 7lbs of 2row and .5lb caramel malt gets me an OG of 1.065. If I add 3.5lb of sugar that gets me up to 1.120. Would that work?

I would eliminate the caramel malt altogether. At that level of concentration your brew is going to be some level of sweet and have a darker color. I am not sure if Chico can go as high as you want it too (you were looking for 15% ABV?).
Someone advised on San Diego Super Yeast (no xp with it myself). I can tell you I have gone to 10.25 ABV using Marris Otter and PacMan. No other fermentables were added (had a pint of it before writing this, after a pint of another home-brew ). A good question to ask is if you can hit the high ABV you were looking for with an Ale Yeast. I, myself, do not know.

 

[gotbags-10]

On white labs site it says wlp001 is capable of going upwards of 15%. So I guess realistically I will shoot for 14% to give myself a little buffer. If it stalls out then I can always finish it with one of the high gravity yeasts. But I'm trying not to go that route

 

[joshesmusica]

do you have beersmith?