Need help converting Bells Two Hearted IPA

[Blauwkonein]

Hi all,

I am planning to brew multiple batches of the infamous Bell's Two Hearted IPA clone. I have a 25 kg (55.11 pounds) bag of pale malt that I would like to use optimally. The recipe asks for 12 lbs (5.44 kg) per batch, and I would like to give the recipe a minor tweak, ending up at 5.00 kg (11 lbs) per batch. When I use 11 lbs of pale malt, should I change the other things in the recipe as well, or will the difference be minor? Also, would there be a difference in the amount of sparge water, batch size, etc?

12 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
2 lbs Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM)
8.00 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
8.00 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)

0.75 oz Centennial [10.3%] - Boil 60 min
0.50 oz Centennial [10.3%] - Boil 45 min
0.50 oz Centennial [10.3%] - Boil 30 min
0.75 oz Centennial [10.3%] - Boil 15 min
1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10 min)
0.50 oz Centennial [10.3%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Denny's Favorite 50 (Wyeast #WY1450)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.5%] - Dry Hop 14 days
1.00 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Dry Hop 14 days

Link to the recipe:
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1645/bells-two-hearted-ipa

 

[madscientist451]

First question is: have you tried this recipe before? Did you like the way it came out? What are you trying to achieve by "tweaking" the recipe?
"Optimal use" of a bag of malt may sound like a good idea, but is it worth it if the beer doesn't come out the way you want it to?
The Bells two hearted clone recipe appeared in Zymurgy magazine and has different malts and more dry hop than the recipe above:
http://imgur.com/bfITU9X

 

[Blauwkonein]

I have not tried this recipe before, and yes, the only thing I try to achieve is the optimal use of my ingredients, not to have left overs. I know the Zymurgy clone, actually I have different malts myself as well (Weyermann pale ale). I currently live in Tbilisi, Georgia and this is the only malt I can get my hands on. And that even took me a day trip to Turkey, so you can imagine that optimalization of that malt is my main goal.

You raise a good question though. Maybe I should be more clear. I want to come as close as possible to the recipe given above, using 11 lbs of pale ale malt per batch. Also, I have only centennial hops, no cascade. From what I read, that should not be much of a problem though. Many people think its better to keep this all-centennial. To reply to your question: for me at this point, optimal use of the malt is most important. Even if that makes the beer different (not necessarily worse, I suppose?) than the recipe. But I wonder how much difference 1 lbs would make?

 

[griffi]

I make a 2 hearted style beer with 11 lbs pale malt, 1 lb crystal and 3 oz centennial hops in the boil. I also use 2 oz centennial as dry hops. It comes out great. So I think you should be fine.

 

[Blauwkonein]

Thanks, I will go that way. Could you specify at what boil time you add the hops? All at once or following the same schedule as above?

 

[griffi]

If you have beersmith search for bells 2 hearted

 

[Blauwkonein]

So my attempt to tweak the recipe to optimalize my ingredient usage would be:

11 lbs Weyermann® Pale Ale malt (3.0 SRM)
2 lbs Weyermann® Vienna malt (3.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Weyermann® CARAHELL® (2.0 SRM)

0.89 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.59 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 45.0 min
0.59 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.89 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins)
0.59 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min

1.0 pkg Denny's Favorite 50 (Wyeast #WY1450)
1.78 oz Centennial [8.40 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days

I adjusted the amount of hops according to the AA's of the Centennial I have (which is 8.7% instead of 10.3%). the last addition of 1.78 oz Centennial instead of 2.0 oz Centennial (or 1 oz Centennial and 1 oz Cascade as in the original recipe) is also because of optimal ingredient usage (three batches out of a 1 lb bag).

Please share your thoughts on this recipe!

 

[griffi]

Looks good to me!

 

[chickypad]

Looks fine to me too but I don't see the need for the 45 min addition. I would combine that with 60 to target the same IBU then add any leftover to your later additions. I'd probably do the same with the 30 min addition for that matter.
Regarding your original questions about base malt, sparge water, batch size, etc. - any time you use someone else's all grain recipe you really should adjust for your own efficiency and system. Do you know your typical efficiency? The recipe you linked is for 6 gal so keep that in mind.

 

[Blauwkonein]

To be honest I don't know my efficiency, I should really calculate that once. Thanks guys

Edit: Is it safe to assume that it is most probably around 72%?

 

[Blauwkonein]

I have another question related to this recipe.

So the original recipe asks for:
18.75 qt of water at 165.4 F / mash temp 153.0 F / 60 min
- Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.61gal, 3.50gal) of 175.0 F water
- Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.00 gal
- Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.058 SG

The conversion Brewsmith gives me is the following:
17.50 qt of water at 165.4 F / mash temp 153.0 F / 60 min
- Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.80gal, 3.50gal) of 175.0 F water
- Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.00 gal
- Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.054 SG

Now firstly, does this conversion seem right (I did not change the equipment settings in Beersmith, so assuming I have the same efficiency as the original poster)?

Second, I bought a HLT and MT, so I want to fly sparge instead of the suggested batch sparge. I tried to select a fly sparge method in Beersmith and it gave me the following:

Mash In / Add 18.75 qt of water at 168.2 F / mash temp 156.0 F / 45 min
Mash Out / Add 7.50 qt of water at 202.4 F / mash temp 168.0 F / 10 min
- Fly sparge with 2.24 gal water at 168.0 F
- Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.00 gal
- Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.058 SG

Does this seem like a correct conversion to you? Also, why does it tell me to mash in and mash out, instead of just keeping the water in the MT for 60 minutes (as I thought was more common)? It will be my first all grain brew so I am a bit lost here.. If I decide not to mash out, should I add both the 18.75 qt and 7.50 qt in the beginning and keep it at 156 F for an hour?

 

[chickypad]

People seem to run into problems with Beersmith when they take it as instructions on how to brew. Rather, you should be telling it how you brew so it can calculate things accurately. The default settings often do not match your system - you really need to set up your own equipment profile and enter all that info like batch size, efficiency, boil off, and other losses. Just because the default says to batch sparge in 2 steps you don't need to follow that, you can do it in one if you adjust your volumes. The first time you may have to estimate most of that but then you can take good measurements to dial it in. I would at least try to measure your mash tun dead space ahead of time. If you don't want to mash out then select a profile with no mash out, though many folks do with fly sparging. If you don't mash out that water is just added to the sparge. You might consider batch sparging a batch or two to get a handle on things as it's easier IMO and you don't have to worry about sparge temps/mash out. I also would not mash an IPA at 156*.

 

[m00ps]

I also would not mash an IPA at 156*.

yyyyyeah. Mash at like 150, 156 is where i'd mash a stout. You dont realize it when you first start brewing, but something as small as 6 degrees makes a HUGE difference. In both the mash and fermentation

 

[griffi]

Agree with chickypad. I would not fly sparge my first ever AG brew. I've had great results with a batch sparge on this recipe. I also agree about the mash temp - I've never mashed this higher than 150-152. I wouldn't focus on the mashout, I would just mash, vorlauf, and collect the first runnings. Batch sparge and acheive the preboil volume. That's enough to worry about for your first AG batch, IMO...

 

[Blauwkonein]

Okay, so I'm gonna go with a batch sparge and a mash temp of 152. Thanks