Need Batch Sparge Tune Up

[runkelia]

Hello,
My batch sparge currently gets the job done, but am wondering if I can simplfy or make more efficient.
My last 2 brews both had a grain bill of 15.5 lbs for a 5.5 gal. batch, pre boil goal 7 gallons. FYI: mash tun is 10 or 12 gallon cooler (I don't come close to utilizing it)
1st step: Calculate strike water, @ 1.25 ratio = 5 gallons water around 185 deg
2nd step: dough in, reach temp., rest for 1 hour.
3rd step: This is where I may be able to simplify. I currently add 11 to 12 quarts boiling water to bring up temp. to 168. I then vorlauf, and drain 1st runnings. At this point I have collected 5.5 to 6 gallons.
4th step: heat up add'l sparge water to get me to 7 gallons pre boil.
My efficiency isn't great probably because I only rinsed the grains with 1 gallon water. My process needs a tune up. Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[b-boy]

If it helps I do the following and get >80% efficiency:

• I pre-heat the mash tun by adding 1-gallon of 160F water 15 minutes prior to use.
• I heat my mash water to about 165-168 depending on my target temperature.
• I add 1.25 ratio water to grain, stir, get to temp, and mash for 1 hour.
• I drain my mash tun of first runnings.
• I split the remaining volume of water into 2 equal volumes, heat to 170F to rinse the grain bed. I stir and wait ~10 minutes after adding the sparge water for the 2nd and 3rd runs.

I use BeerSmith to calculate my water and temperatures.

 

[runkelia]

If it helps I do the following and get >80% efficiency:

• I pre-heat the mash tun by adding 1-gallon of 160F water 15 minutes prior to use.
• I heat my mash water to about 165-168 depending on my target temperature.
• I add 1.25 ratio water to grain, stir, get to temp, and mash for 1 hour.
• I drain my mash tun of first runnings.
• I split the remaining volume of water into 2 equal volumes, heat to 170F to rinse the grain bed. I stir and wait ~10 minutes after adding the sparge water for the 2nd and 3rd runs.

I use BeerSmith to calculate my water and temperatures.

Yes if I could spilt the remaining amount of water needed, I would, but my problem is that I only need 1 to 1.5 gallons sparge water to get me to 7 gallons. Maybe I need to adjust my water to grain ratio.

 

[masonsjax]

The number of sparges, temperature, and letting it rest are not important when batch sparging. You don't need to do a mashout, don't stress about getting the grain temperature up. In fact cold water sparge is equally as efficient, it's just that you're heating the wort rather than the sparge water so it takes a little longer to get to boil. You can safely add all of your water and only collect once if you wish. Whenever you add sparge water to your mash tun, make sure you stir it well, that's what's important. After stirring, you can immediately vorlauf and drain as fast as your system allows.

I usually collect first runnings and measure what I've got. This lets me know exactly how much more water I need to reach desired pre-boil volume. I then add all of the remaining water and stir stir stir, drain with the valve wide open and that's that.

 

[runkelia]

The number of sparges, temperature, and letting it rest are not important when batch sparging. You don't need to do a mashout, don't stress about getting the grain temperature up. In fact cold water sparge is equally as efficient, it's just that you're heating the wort rather than the sparge water so it takes a little longer to get to boil. You can safely add all of your water and only collect once if you wish. Whenever you add sparge water to your mash tun, make sure you stir it well, that's what's important. After stirring, you can immediately vorlauf and drain as fast as your system allows.

I usually collect first runnings and measure what I've got. This lets me know exactly how much more water I need to reach desired pre-boil volume. I then add all of the remaining water and stir stir stir, drain with the valve wide open and that's that.

When you collect first runnings, are they around 170 degrees, or is that not a concern because you are going to boil it anyway?

 

[ianw58]

I do essentially the same as b-boy, except that I heat 3 gallon is of water in my BK while heating the mash/sparge water in my HLT. I pump the BK water into my Mash Tun and let it sit there, pre-heating the MT until the water for mash in is ready.

In another thread, many moons ago, someone posted that they pump e mash in water into the MT and adjust temp prior to mash in rather than chasing their tail AFTER the grains were wet. This helped me hit my target mash in temps like no other process or calculation ever has. (I don't recall who made th post, but THANKS!!!)

Now, Runkelia, something isn't tracking.

15.5 lbs grain should require 19 quarts of water at 1.25 lbs/quar mash in. The grain should absorb about 12.5 quarts of water. So, mash in with about 32 quarts (8 gallons) of water.

You should be about to driving about 5 gallons of that into your BK. That should leave your BK short by about 2 gallons of your calculated per-boil volume.

Add about 2 to 2.5 gallons of sparge water to the MT, stir like crazy, vorlauft and collect run off to load your BK to full pre-boil volume.

As far as efficiency is concerned, what you want to be concerned with is creating a repeatable process that hits the same numbers every time, even if they're "low". That gives you the information necessary to convert recipes for use in YOUR brew house.

For your recipe, assuming a 5 gallon batch and an 80% efficiency, dropping the efficiency to 60% would require 4 more pounds of grain. At $2 per pound, that's an extra $8 per batch or abut 16¢ more per bottle. Hardly worth worrying about.

On the other hand, if you are BMC, the difference between 95% efficiency and 96% in a 2,000 barrel batch is beginning to affect the bottom line.

 

[runkelia]

I don't think my efficiency is terrible. But maybe it is, I don't know. I ended up with a SG of 1.070. And I was consistent on both brews with that gravity. I guess my question is: Would I not be better off skipping mash out? It sounds like everyone else drains their runnings after their 60 min. rest, whereas I add 3 gallon water to get the mash up to 170, then drain 1st runnings. If I just drained after the 60 min. rest, then I could sparge 1 or 2 times. I think the "mash out" step is screwing me up. Thanks for all your comments.

 

[ianw58]

Ah, now I understand, Runkelia!

You're absolutely correct. I drain my MT after my mash. I do not raise the temperature to a mash out temp.

 

[tooldudetool]

I basically use the method suggested by Denny Conn on his webpage: http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

The following calculations work consistently on my system, and are from a recent IPA. I use a strike water calculator to find the strike temperature, and increase it by about 8 degrees, then add that water to my Igloo cooler mash tun, wait 5-10 minutes for the mash tun to absorb heat and cool it down to the strike temp, then I mash in. I also use 1.6 quarts per pound, and find that the thinner mash works great for me, with a tight crush I regularly get 85-90% extraction efficiency (I also use an online calculator to figure this out).

----
Mash at 150 degrees. Add 170 degree water to mash tun, wait until it drops to 162. Add grains to water at ratio of 1.6 quarts per pound, mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes. 12.5 pounds of grain x 1.6 quarts = 5 gallons of 162 degree strike water (calculated), heat water to 170 ~

.15 gallons of water lost per pound of grain:
12.5 lb x .15 gal = 1.8 gallons.
5 gallons mash water - 1.8 gallons absorbtion = 3.2 gallons in BK ~
8.2 gallons starting volume - 3.2 gallons first runnings = 5 gallons sparge water ~
Prepare 5 gallons of 188 degree sparge water (will get grain bed up to 165-168 for batch sparging.)
------------
I follow Denny's suggestion for higher temp sparge water to get the grain bed just under 170, it does a better job of liquifying the sugars and helping them run off of the grains (makes sense to me anyway). You should be able to calculate all of the water volumes and temperatures before you even start your brew day. You should know your first runoff volume, so you can subtract that from your desired boil volume and heat the correct volume of sparge water so its ready when you are done collecting your first runnings. Add sparge water, mix thoroughly, then collect second runnings to get your starting volume. This also helps cut a lot of time out of your brewday as well, which is always nice.

 

[masonsjax]

When you collect first runnings, are they around 170 degrees, or is that not a concern because you are going to boil it anyway?

Mash is between 148-160, so first runnings are in that neighborhood. With batch sparge you're boiling pretty quick, so the problems that are solved with a mashout step when fly sparging never even get a chance to start.

 

[old_tx_kbb]

I'm confused with step #1 of your process...

1st step: Calculate strike water, @ 1.25 ratio = 5 gallons water around 185 deg


Do you use 185 degrees as your strike temp and then let it cool down before adding your grain? Or was that 185 just a typo. I usually strike at 8 to 12 degrees above my target mash temp. and dough in.

 

[runkelia]

I'm confused with step #1 of your process...

1st step: Calculate strike water, @ 1.25 ratio = 5 gallons water around 185 deg


Do you use 185 degrees as your strike temp and then let it cool down before adding your grain? Or was that 185 just a typo. I usually strike at 8 to 12 degrees above my target mash temp. and dough in.

Yes I put 5 gallons 185 degrees in empty cooler, after 10 minutes it's down to 173 from heat absorption. I then add my grains, stir, and come in to about 155. I like to come in a little high that way I can add ice cubes if I need. So really strike temp. target is mash target + 30.
EDIT: keep in mind the grain bill was 15.5 lbs @ 60 degrees

 

[miguy96b]

I pretty much do the same thing as tooldude.

One of the things that hasn't been mentioned but that helped me a lot is also consciously try and get equal water additions for your mash and sparge water. For example I'm about to brew a 10lb grain bill at 1.6 ratio so I will be using about 4 gallons mash and then about 4.5 gallons sparge. I only do a one step sparge been thinking of trying a 2 step but my efficiency is good enough for me and consistent. I do this even if it means a longer boil to get down to my desired fermenter volume.

I also don't do a traditional mash out step but instead use my sparge to get the grain bed up to approximately 168 degrees. It looks like if you do this instead of a traditional mash out with 3 gallons you would also have about equal mash and sparge water additions.

So basically if your gonna change it up I'd probably recommend not doing a mash out step first and see if that achieves what you wanted to.