Need advise on a 50/50 rye malt and wheat malt ipa?

[Wrathchild]

I'm going to visit my dad for the weekend and he has grown hops for the first time. He has about 7 oz between challenger, Chinook, and cascade. Hes dead set on a 50/50 rye and wheat beer. Im down for the brew but being a rookie, im not sure how beta glucans work. I know it says rye and wheat can gum your sparge up but we biab so I dont think its an issue. Were looking to put 5.5 to 6 gallons into the carboy and dry hop the piss out of it. I think we're gonna bitter in the kettle with pellets and save the whole hops for dry hopping. Would 8 lbs of each rye malt and wheat malt make a good "homemade ipa" with the grain bill and dry hopping with homegrown hops? I would think with full volume and squeezing the bag I wouldn't worry about extraction too much. Not sure what yeast to use either. I was thinking 2 packets of us05.

 

[Beerstein]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

 

[Wrathchild]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

Even with brewing in a bag correct? I have enzymes that I bought but it says for must. I have wort. Will these work as well and how much should I use

 

[Beerstein]

Even with brewing in a bag correct? I have enzymes that I bought but it says for must. I have wort. Will these work as well and how much should I use

I'm talking about enzymes like Glucabuster or Ultraflow. These enzymes will prevent stuck sparges and drainage problems. The better drainage, generally speaking, the better efficiency you'll get. This is a problem regardless of using a pot, bag, etc. I don't know what enzymes you have, so I can't advise on how well they work or the usage.

 

[Wrathchild]

Ok so im wrong, I have Ld Carlson yeast nutrient. Food grade urea and diammonium phosphate. Wrong stuff. I know what your talking about now that you said it. It goes in the mash right? Gonna be getting ingredients from southern hills homebrew in Roanoke va so im sure he will have the flow max there. I hope

 

[Beerstein]

Ok so im wrong, I have Ld Carlson yeast nutrient. Food grade urea and diammonium phosphate. Wrong stuff. I know what your talking about now that you said it. It goes in the mash right? Gonna be getting ingredients from southern hills homebrew in Roanoke va so im sure he will have the flow max there. I hope

These enzymes go in the mash. Each enzyme has varying instructions. I think the Novozyme Ultraflow can only be purchased directly and in minimum half kilo quantities. I have some, but not had a chance to use it yet. I've used the glucabuster. Seems to work fine.

 

[AlexKay]

You’ll be fine with BIAB. I wouldn’t worry about enzyme additions. That said, I don’t know how 50/50 wheat/rye is going to taste — it seems like too much rye — but the bag will handle it.

 

[Wrathchild]

These enzymes go in the mash. Each enzyme has varying instructions. I think the Novozyme Ultraflow can only be purchased directly and in minimum half kilo quantities. I have some, but not had a chance to use it yet. I've used the glucabuster. Seems to work fine.

I'm trying to talk him into a more 2 row malt brew with rye and wheat instead of the 50/50 but we will see. Ill check their website to see if he has some type of enzymes. Might have a last minute grain bill change

 

[Wrathchild]

You’ll be fine with BIAB. I wouldn’t worry about enzyme additions. That said, I don’t know how 50/50 wheat/rye is going to taste — it seems like too much rye — but the bag will handle it.

Yeah I told the other guy replying im trying to talk him out of that much rye and wheat. I figure if anything after conversion we can just stirr the living piss out of it for longer to get all we can

 

[Dgallo]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

 

[Beerstein]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

some of us like it at a lower 10% That’s just my personal preference. I’ve play with malted and unmalted rye: and I actually like unmalted rye more.

 

[Wrathchild]

Have you ever brewed a beer with that much rye before? In my eyes 15-20% is a large amount for a hop forward beer. You might miss the nuances of the fresh hops from the spicy rye character

I see what your saying. No ive only used 1lb of rye malt with 10lbs of pale malt and I didnt even notice the rye spice

 

[Dgallo]

some of us like it at a lower 10% That’s just my personal preference. I’ve play with malted and unmalted rye: and I actually like unmalted rye more.

I’m with you. Only in saisons do I go above 10%. I’m usually at 5-7% in anything else. But I rarely use it at all

 

[hamachi]

I see what your saying. No ive only used 1lb of rye malt with 10lbs of pale malt and I didnt even notice the rye spice

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

 

[Wrathchild]

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

Most definitely noted my friend! Not out of wasting grains but I'd like to see that big gummy mash bag! I gotta learn the hard way. Im getting alot better at barley but the other grains are too new to me but im trying like hell to learn. Trials for me it is

 

[Wrathchild]

For that amount of wheat and rye, I'd use rice hulls and an enzyme.

Have you ever used a yeast nutrient in beer? The ld Carlson packet i have says wine and beer. Ive always thought with all grain brewing there is plenty of nutrients for the yeast. When I pitch into my carboy it looks like its 90% protein and 10% liquid but it does down quick. The yeast seems to root out the sediment quick

 

[hottpeper13]

When I use that much rye or wheat I always dough in at between 100* and 104* for a beta glucan rest, hold for 20 min then add boiling liquor to get to sacrification temp. I MIAB and BIAB depending on quantity and the first wheat wine took like what seemed a day to drain. I couldn't squeeze it out of the bag either,and was 15 points below my estimated OG. Next one with the 104* rest drained in about 2 hours and I hit my OG

 

[Protos]

When brewing in a bag, I never use hulls or enzymes. And I've brewed 100% wheat Wheatwines and 75% rye Roggenbocks. Yes, such grists are slower to drain, but not as much as to make me regretting I didn't add hulls or enzymes.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

A few months back, I did a Red Rye Ale with 60% Red-X, 20% rye malt, and 20% rye flakes. It came out well with a nice flavor.

But boy was the mash gummy! I do MIAB, and out of 3.5 gallons in, only 1.9 came out in the first running before sparging (compared to 2.4 from the mash for a barleywine I did the week before). When I hoisted the bag, it was like a giant blob compared to my usual mashes. So if you are doing 50% wheat / 50% rye, be prepared for the grain to retain more water than usual. I have never used rice hulls, so I don't know if they would make a difference for BIAB.

Rice hulls will help but 50% rye is way high then adding the same amount of wheat is compounding the problem. If you feel you just have to try this use a lot of rice hulls and sparge at 168° to 170° to thin the mash. Good luck may the force be with you

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I'm sorry my reply was meant for Wrathchild.

 

[Wrathchild]

I'm sorry my reply was meant for Wrathchild.

Thanks for the advise man! I dont really want to try this but my pops has an idea in his head. Ive always used barley but im also just over a year into brewing and im starting to get barley down but definitely not rye or wheat. Or at least not in huge quantities like this. Im getting ready to new the 15th brew and its gonna be whatever this thing turns out to be. Like others have said, im kinda scared of messing up his hop flavors with this much rye. Its all fresh picked homegrown hops that were just harvested and dried about a week ago

 

[hamachi]

When I use that much rye or wheat I always dough in at between 100* and 104* for a beta glucan rest, hold for 20 min then add boiling liquor to get to sacrification temp. I MIAB and BIAB depending on quantity and the first wheat wine took like what seemed a day to drain. I couldn't squeeze it out of the bag either,and was 15 points below my estimated OG. Next one with the 104* rest drained in about 2 hours and I hit my OG

In the case without a beta glucan rest, did you sparge? The gummy blob I described in my previous post held on to a lot of water, but thanks to 2 batch sparges, I barely missed my OG.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

he has grown hops for the first time. He has about 7 oz between challenger, Chinook, and cascade.

Is this the weight of the hops dried or still "wet"? (Where "wet" just means picked from the plant.) If they have not been dried then 7 oz of hops is less than 1.5 oz of dried whole cone hops.

 

[Wrathchild]

Is this the weight of the hops dried or still "wet"? (Where "wet" just means picked from the plant.) If they have not been dried then 7 oz of hops is less than 1.5 oz of dried whole cone hops.

Its dried and weighed. Its actually a combo of 4 and I forgot the last one. Its challenger, Chinook, cascade, and centennial

 

[day_trippr]

Please post the results of this adventure!

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Hottlepper13 is CORRECT, a bata gluten rest can save your butt. I can't believe I forgot about it. I'm tired

 

[AlexKay]

Thanks for the advise man! I dont really want to try this but my pops has an idea in his head.

See if you can talk him down to 80/20 wheat/rye.

 

[Wrathchild]

See if you can talk him down to 80/20 wheat/rye.

Gonna give it my best. Thanks for the advise!

 

[Wrathchild]

Please post the results of this adventure!

Cheers!

I will absolutely do that but sadly I'm only gonna be with my old man for the brew and pitch. Im leaving it in his hands to dry hop. He has a 6 gallon glass carboy that he uses but im also insisting he ferments in a bucket cause his glass is a small neck and I cant think of how to get 6 or 7 oz of whole hops in there. I suggested the bucket so he can put the hops in a brew bag and dunk. Its gonna be awhile before I taste the final product but ill let you know how the brewday goes and what we actually end up doing

 

[madscientist451]

I made the low ABV "rye-wit" from basic brewing a year or so ago:

Its actually 60/40 torrified wheat/rye malt, but I used malted wheat instead. Its also not an IPA, its a low ABV session beer.
I didn't use any enzymes and the mash was fine. The beer was OK, and I drank it all, but not really sure I want to brew it again.
So I'd suggest brewing the beer as above, but use a moderate amount of your fresh hops since its a session beer, not an IPA.
Here's a wet-hop IPA recipe, perhaps you can adapt it to what you have in mind:
https://beerandbrewing.com/comrade-fresh-hops-superpower-ipa-recipe/