need advice | fridge vs fermzilla for temp control

[Dgallo]

I wrote Fermentis a several years ago and ask them about the disparity between the temps on their yeast packets and their website and other documentation.

Their answer was that doing their continual testing of their yeasts, they've found that the older findings suggesting lower ideal range of temps was no longer valid.

They also said they had too many sachets pre-printed and they were going to use all the old sachets until they needed to print more. It was their opinion and justification for using the old packets that the narrower range of temps on their packets still made good beer.

I can't argue with that reasoning or justification. But I can argue with you guys that claim I have to keep my pale ales and IPA at lower temperatures to get a good beer. I have done plenty that have briefly reached 74 - 76°F and they were very good beers with no undesirable notes.

Beer only gets hot during the krausen. I haven't had any krausen that lasted longer than half a day. Not sure why I need to control the temps continually for these beers.

Fermentis also said that the website information was the correct information to use regardless of what the sachet says. Here is the current one for S-04.

https://cdn.bfldr.com/G7S7MSWL/as/b5bgjw88vgcpnm9c7csjkt5k/SafAle_S-04_TDS_-_Technical_Data_Sheet

I noticed that Northern Brewer links to the old data sheet with the incorrect information. and also gives the incorrect information.

MoreBeer states the correct information but also links to an old data sheet.

If you’ve never used temp control to manage your beers, you’re only comparing beers you’ve made where they can get hotter than ideal to other beers you’ve made without temp control. You may not getting any off flavors or you might be and are unable to notice them. The only way to know for sure would be to do one where your like 70 for an entire fermentation and then compare.

Again though if you’re happy with your beer, nothing I say matters, but there’s a reason breweries invest in glycol and jacketed fermenters. If they felt they could produce the same beers without it, they would save the money due to price point and profit margins alone

 

[hotbeer]

Again though if you’re happy with your beer, nothing I say matters,

Understand that I am happy with what I have. I also don't care for others telling those with less experience that they have to have a fermentation chamber to make good beer.

For noobs, it adds a road block to some that won't start brewing because of all the equipment we tell them they need to make good beer.

I was that noob that didn't start brewing for many years. Partly because of the suggestions that beer wouldn't be good enough if I didn't do all the things people are doing for competition beer.

However I've found that what I make is at least as good or better than what I can get at the store. And even some of the micro breweries I've been too.

I think that you also have to admit, that in the time you got your fermentation chamber or however you control the temps, you probably also just got better at making beer. So maybe not entirely the temp control you imagine it to be.

Though I will agree that perhaps there are some beers that benefit more from controlling the temperatures. But for the pale ales, IPA and other beers I make from mostly 2 row pale, it doesn't seem as necessary to get a good beer. Though obviously I'm not talking about letting it ferment in my garage that gets to 120°F on a summer day.

 

[mac_1103]

I agree that it's counterproductive to tell beginning brewers that they can't make good beer without adopting a half a dozen advanced brewing practices. But while this is in the Beginners Beer Brewing Forum, the OP did ask a specific question about controlling fermentation temperature vs fermenting under pressure. And then another poster asked a follow up question about solvent-like flavors in stouts. So it's kinda hard to complain too much about any of the responses.

 

[Dgallo]

I agree that it's counterproductive to tell beginning brewers that they can't make good beer without adopting a half a dozen advanced brewing practices.

What I would say, which I said previously, is that temp control doesn’t need to mean chest freezer or fridge, you just need a way to prevent the beer from getting lower or higher than the yeast ideal range. If placement (cellar or basement), fan, wet tshirt, water bath, etc allows you to do that, that’s perfect then. But I would say controlling the temps of fermentation by any means available is a fundamental and beginner level of brewing.

But to your main point, this thread is specifically on choices between pressure fermentation and temp control, so I def agree any Info regarding the two would be relevant and appropriate

 

[hotbeer]

So it's kinda hard to complain too much about any of the responses.

True, but the person I was talking to was trying to justify it to me. Not the OP. Though their initial post was to the OP.

When in threads like this were someone takes a suggestion of another, no matter how well and polite they make it and direct it back at them. It's much like trying to state a different opinion and being around those that only want to believe there is only one correct way to do something or view something.

 

[Dgallo]

True, but the person I was talking to was trying to justify it to me. Not the OP. Though their initial post was to the OP.

When in threads like this were someone takes a suggestion of another, no matter how well and polite they make it and direct it back at them. It's much like trying to state a different opinion and being around those that only want to believe there is only one correct way to do something or view something.

I didn’t mean to come off rude by any means so if I did i apologize. I speak quite directly as I’ve been told but just know there was no ill intent in my comments

 

[hotbeer]

I didn’t mean to come off rude by any means so if I did i apologize. I speak quite directly as I’ve been told but just know there was no ill intent in my comments

You have no reason to apologize. I didn't think you were rude.

It's just that this type discussion in threads between two persons that brew beer for different reason and different viewpoints just adds what appears to be contention and offers little for the OP.

It's been the bane and problem with many forums since back in the 1980's when BBS's came around that people get to arguing about things just due to the fact they have different goals and desires for the issue of the topic. Not that either was wrong. I've done it myself. It's why in the olden days of the 80's they were very specific about addressing the OP and not the other members responses. At least on the BBS's I used that was the norm.

I'd be more than willing to have all of the discussion between me and you deleted from this thread. As again it's just the both of us justifying our own viewpoints about brewing. I said all I wanted to say to the OP in my first post. Since he didn't ask any questions specifically toward that, I'll assume it isn't the route they wish to go.

So if you agree, maybe @IslandLizard or some other moderator will delete those extra posts and make this threads discussion more directed to the OP instead of ourselves.

Your information is helpful. It's just not what I want to hear myself at the moment. Sometime in the future I probably will dabble with active cooling. But for now, I don't care too. It was helpful that you thought my failures with stouts might be due to temps. Until then, I'd put it all up as my use of water straight out of the bottle which does well enough for pale ales, but apparently not for darker ales and stouts. And probably not well for anything going to a competition.

 

[Brewsterguy]

sorry for not replying to all you brewers, had a busy time.

decided to go for the fridge per your advice, gonna find a temp control module and a small chest freezer that has room for 1 ferm bucket and some brews.

 

[Whisky River]

Obviously the fridge is costlier, it’s gonna take more space and produce noise. The not having the ability to stow it away while not being used is also something.
Fermzilla without kegging is also a big con.

What would you guys do?

On the off chance you haven’t bought the fridge yet, you might try to find a Brewjacket Immersion Pro. Some people here throw some hate at them because it’s not a 35ft chest freezer that can cold crash 20 gallons to 32 degrees but it’s a great device for apartment brewers. It’s easily capable of maintaining fermentation temps, pretty quite, very portable and easily storable when not in use. If you look around you can usually find them for around $100 or so.

 

[Dgallo]

On the off chance you haven’t bought the fridge yet, you might try to find a Brewjacket Immersion Pro. Some people here throw some hate at them because it’s not a 35ft chest freezer that can cold crash 20 gallons to 32 degrees but it’s a great device for apartment brewers. It’s easily capable of maintaining fermentation temps, pretty quite, very portable and easily storable when not in use. If you look around you can usually find them for around $100 or so.

Not saying what your suggesting is wrong by any means but this is perfect for ferm and serving if your a 1 or 2 keg brewer. Brand new and gives you quite a bit more solution/options for $50 or less since your most likely won’t have to ship as I would assume there’s a Lowe’s relatively close to most (obviously not all, I do understand that)

 

[Whisky River]

Not saying what your suggesting is wrong by any means but this is perfect for ferm and serving if your a 1 or 2 keg brewer. Brand new and gives you quite a bit more solution/options for $50 or less since your most likely won’t have to ship as I would assume there’s a Lowe’s relatively close to most (obviously not all, I do understand that)View attachment 856643

I totally get that, and for most people that’s a simple solution. But the first lines in the OP’s post were “i live in a small apartment with limited space” and he also mentioned that a fridge would take up more space and not be able to be stored away when not in use.

When you think about it, if there isn’t a lot of extra floor space in a small kitchen that leaves putting a fridge in the living room, bedroom or bathroom which may not be ideal for him so I thought I would mention an option he might not have been aware of.

Now that I think of it, he could also do temperature control using the Cool Zone cooling jacket and a cooler which could also be stored away after use.
To each their own.

https://www.gotta-brew.com/products/cool-zone-cooling-jacket.html