NE IPA - What went wrong??

[tribble222]

Brewed up my first NEIPA and it's... underwhelming. It lacks flavor and lacks aroma. Nothing tastes off, it just tastes like a light session ipa and I want something that's super juicy and strong tasting. Where did I go wrong? It's been on cryo hops in the keg for 3 days now. Fermented in a keg and transferred to serving keg under CO2 so zero oxygen exposure.

The recipe is below, and my targets got close to expected. For the actual beer I brewed I hit 1.075 OG and 1.016 FG and 64% brew house efficiency.



HOME BREW RECIPE:
Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Specialty IPA: New England IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 4.5 gallons (fermenter volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.049
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.077
Final Gravity: 1.017
ABV (standard): 7.88%
IBU (tinseth): 51.42
SRM (morey): 6.31

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (74.1%)
1.5 lb - Flaked Oats (11.1%)
1.5 lb - German - Wheat Malt (11.1%)
0.5 lb - Canadian - Honey Malt (3.7%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 31.65
1.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.8, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 165 °F, IBU: 10.34
1.5 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.6, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 165 °F, IBU: 9.44
1.5 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 13.8, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
1.5 oz - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.6, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
1 oz - Citra LupuLN2, Type: Lupulin Pellet, AA: 24.4, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days
1 oz - Mosaic LupuLN2, Type: Lupulin Pellet, AA: 24.1, Use: Dry Hop for 0 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 150 F, Time: 60 min

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
0.5 each - Whirlfloc Tablet, Time: 5 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil
11 g - Calcium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
5.5 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Omega Yeast Labs - DIPA Ale OYL-052
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76%
Flocculation: Medium-low
Optimum Temp: 65 - 72 F
Fermentation Temp: 67 F
Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: 15562
Ca2: 150
Mg2: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 185
SO4: 110
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:

NOTES:
Hop stand at a constant 165F
Add dry hop pellets at day 2
Add cryo hops when transfer to keg at day 10.

Generated by Brewer's Friend - https://www.brewersfriend.com/
Date: 2018-10-31 22:39 UTC
Recipe Last Updated: 2018-10-16 21:19 UTC

 

[Amadeo38]

Did you add juice? Kidding aside, I see nothing wrong with what you’ve done - assuming you hit the target water profile. Your IBUs from individual hop additions add up to more than 51. Maybe try doing a super low IBU version next time in the event that the bitterness is overwhelming the palate and reducing perception of the juicy flavor.

 

[IslandLizard]

Were your 1st round of dry hops bagged, in mesh containers, or free swimming?

How about your 2nd round, in the serving keg?

You're a little high on your Sulfate WRT Chloride, but that should not make it taste "weak."

I brewed I hit 1.075 OG and 1.016 FG

That should not taste like a Session Ale.

 

[tribble222]

1st round dry hop was bagged, yes. 2nd round is in a tube like this http://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/glass_carboy_dry_hopping_tube_close_up.jpg

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd whirlpool longer (30-45') at lower temps (140-150F). Or split them (not necessarily evenly) between 160-170F for 15' and 140-150F for 30'.

Any extra time beyond these gives only diminishing returns.

 

[IslandLizard]

1st round dry hop was bagged, yes. 2nd round is in a tube like this http://www.homebrewing.org/assets/images/glass_carboy_dry_hopping_tube_close_up.jpg

Very possibly too tightly packed. Did you agitate them at all during that dry hop time?
Those dry hops swell up like crazy. To extract/absorb their goodness (lupulin) beer needs to be able to flow around and through the pulp more or less freely.

Those tubes may be packed too tightly too, even with 2oz of lupulin powder. That powder also swells.
Now you can rock or roll that serving keg to get beer flowing around and through them. Go to town for a couple days, it's all safe under CO2. That should perk it up quite a bit, even to the point of some hop bite, as small hop dust particles make it outside the mesh. They'll settle out over a few days, so your first few drafts may have a bit of that bite too.

How about your boil and whirlpool hops? Were they bagged/spidered/basketed?

 

[tribble222]

Thanks that's some good ideas. They very well could be too tightly packed. I did not agitate any of the dry hops. I'll give it a try rolling the keg around a bit. Boil and whirlpool hops were in a hop spider like this https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DxZgpwNkDI8/maxresdefault.jpg

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, that mesh tube is not conducive to good efficiency. I free-swim all my fermentor additions (always pellets) then cold-crash the mush to the bottom under light CO2 pressure before doing a CO2 push to a Star San purged keg.

Also, if mid-pallet character is attenuated or pretty much missing, I suggest doing a flame-out addition followed by the low-temp whirlpool addition. I use 22 ounces for a 10 gallon batch with 1 oz CTZ for 60, 3 oz of whatever combo at flame-out for 10 minutes, 6 oz sub-170°F whirlpool for 20 and all hops left in while the wort cools, and finally 6 oz for both dry-hop rounds (so, .5 for 60, 1.5 FO, 3 WP, 3 and 3 DH for a total of 11 per 5 gallons).

My favorite combination is mosaic, citra and simcoe, but very close behind are galaxy, chinook and simcoe, and mosaic, citra and el dorado. I reckon one can't go far afield using mosaic and citra with pretty much anything

Cheers!

 

[kingmatt]

I'd personally up your hop additions. 3 oz whirlpool and 3 oz fermentation hops are low IMO. Even your keg addition for the cryo is low (4 oz equivalent).

I've had good results with 4-6 oz whirlpool, 6-8 oz primary fermentation and another 6 oz keg hops.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks that's some good ideas. They very well could be too tightly packed. I did not agitate any of the dry hops. I'll give it a try rolling the keg around a bit. Boil and whirlpool hops were in a hop spider like this https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DxZgpwNkDI8/maxresdefault.jpg

Yeah, dry hops need to be loosely packed and agitated at least once a day (or swimming freely) to get good extraction. When fermenting in a keg agitating dry hops without introducing oxygen is easy. You'll get some hop dust that will make it out of the bags, depending on the mesh size, but it will settle with a couple days especially when cold crashing. Blow off the sludgy beer from the bottom and transfer the clear beer to a serving keg.

I dry hop (free swimming) in a bucket fermentor, 2x. I drilled a 1" access hole in the lid and stream CO2 inside the headspace through the airlock stem when working with it. I give the beer a gently stir once or twice a day with the end of my plastic brew spoon. Then purge a few times (bulging lid) for good measure.

That hop spider should be large enough for 3-4 oz of pellet hops, perhaps a bit more. Massaging and draining the spider a few times (every 5-10') during the boil/whirlpool helps moving the hop oils from the spider (bags) to the kettle and renew the wort inside the spider (bags) with fresh.

3 oz of whirlpool hops is a bit conservative. 7 oz (net) in the dry hop is fairly decent, but 12 oz or more (net) is not unheard of.
With "net" I mean calculating 2 oz of hops for each oz of Cryo Hops/LupuLN2 (= x2).

 

[thehaze]

If nothing else is wrong with the beer, besides the lack of a punchier aroma and flavour, then you have not added enough hops. For my taste and probably many others, your additions could be OK for a Pale Ale. NEIPAs do really need a bit more hops. Somewhere between 15 and 20 oz hops should get you there.

 

[ryanm8]

I think IslandLizard is right on the money here. I used to put all my hops in one sack and then I tried adding them in loose. HUGE difference. This last time I tried adding only half an ounce of hops per sack and had good results with that. Had to add a bunch of sacks though lol

 

[marchuk96]

Here are my thoughts and my go to for all neipa...
Golden promise
Flaked wheat
Flaked oats
Carapils
Hops are usually a combo of 2-3 hops in equal amounts...usually amounting to12-16 oz total hops
2oz a 8/7 mins
2oz a 5/6 mins
3-4 oz combined hops whirlpool. @150-160 for minimally and hour...covered
2-5 is dry hop in two parts usually split and at the very end right before kegging...typically for me is day 5 and then day 7 and keg on day 9
Yeast...no question imperial yeast is the way to go...juice or dry hop or citrus...they are forgiving and can really crank out esters at high end...low to mid 70's ferm temp
Mid 150 mash...2/1 calcium chloride to gypsum water ratio...
There's your recipe for success