Natural gas or electric?

[Austin W.]

So I've been trying to decide how to brew in the basement. I've researched induction, electric and natural gas setups. I just got the Megapot 1.2 10 gallon pot. I also have to Blichmann hellfire burner and just got the natural gas conversion kit for it. I guess my question is would this be acceptable to use in the basement with a range hood (hood is vented directly thru wall. Only about 1.5' of vent). I just got the megapot for Christmas and I'm a little leery of drilling holes into it.

 

[dammBrewer]

Austin, Good question.

First off, safety first! If you do brew indoors, take as many precautions as you can...and then step back and take a few more. Then relax and brew .

I can't speak personally, but I can tell you that a friend of mine brews indoors using a keggle and a Blichmann burner on NG at least twice a month. No issues. He does however have a pretty robust range hood that vents out, as well as a pretty robust indoor air intake from outside that he recirculates through the room during. I don't have specs on his exhaust hood or intake fan but, it's kinda loud so I'm guessing at least 800CFM each.

I am confused though by your statement about being nervous about drilling holes in your new pot. I understand your concerns but am not sure how it relates to your question.

Hope this helps.

 

[Austin W.]

Austin, Good question.

First off, safety first! If you do brew indoors, take as many precautions as you can...and then step back and take a few more. Then relax and brew .
I can't speak personally, but I can tell you that a friend of mine brews indoors using a keggle and a Blichmann burner on NG at least twice a month. No issues. He does however have a pretty robust range hood that vents out, as well as a pretty robust indoor air intake from outside that he recirculates through the room during. I don't have specs on his exhaust hood or intake fan but, it's kinda loud so I'm guessing at least 800CFM each.

I am confused though by your statement about being nervous about drilling holes in your new pot. I understand your concerns but am not sure how it relates to your question.

Hope this helps.

 

[Austin W.]

Because I don't know how to build an electric Brew Kettle and I'm scared of punching holes into a brand new $200 pot and ruining it. Electric definitely seems like the way to go but I already know how to use a burner and I don't know how to build an electric kettle

 

[Austin W.]

Also forgive me while I learn how to reply on here... I'm more beer savy than computer savvy LOL

 

[Dcpcooks]

You should have a much greater volume of air flow if your going to burn gas. So you’ll have a cost for a hood and vent set up regardless of which way you go.

There are many threads on here about punching holes for an element. I’d use a punch if possible to make a hole. It’s not to hard to do.

You will need to assess your electric service in your space to see what options you have. You’ll need a 30amp gfci. You could go with a 120v set up but it will be a little under powered. You may be able to use a dryer plug if it’s available for you. You’d still want to have some form of GFCI protection.

If it were me I’d look at electric for indoor use.

 

[nrjones89]

Electric would be far cheaper to run and you wouldn't need to modify your house (which is probably more expensive than the pot). Find a way to build electric and go that route. It's safer and cheaper. Just learn how to do the stuff. I second the hole punch.

 

[Drumminguy81]

Do not go natural gas. Electric is the only safe way to go indoors. I have used both personally in my garage. I have a large vent hood with an 800 cfm vent fan and 8" duct and I had to still open my garage door with natural gas because the gas burning got too strong. Not to mention the amount of heat produced by the burners was miserable without good airflow. I switched to electric and have never been happier. It's faster, quieter, more comfortable to be in the same room, and requires much less ventilation. If I were you I would get a nice set of knockout punches for the element hole and source a good local sanitary welder to add the ferrule. If you don't trust someone welding the weldless fittings available work well without leaks.

 

[mj1angier]

I understand how you feel about drilling the pot. I did it about 2 months ago for the first time. I have done some metal drilling before so was kind of ok trying. I did two holes. One in a alum. deep fry pot as a test then in my $275 pot, lol. I got the bit on a slow boat from China:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01I416HN0/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I did a 20 gallon pot and added a 5500 watt element. My 10 gallon pot that I got used has a 4500 watt element. Coming from using gas, I could not be happier

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I'd go electric but that's just me. I understand the aprehention about drilling into an expensive pot. But at some point, you just have to have a leap of faith. You Can Do weldless options or welded. Or even go for the soldered option. If you're really unsure, try on a scrap piece of material first to see if you like the results or trust your handy work. For me, nothing beets electric and soldered fittings.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Something to consider:
Have one of these welded into the kettle:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ICAXDDK/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
and cap it off to use NG.
Or use one of these to insert an electric element:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07443N5VS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Austin W.]

Thanks for all your help guys. I'm heading back to the brew store today and cancelling my order for the new conversion kit. The more I thought about it the less safe I felt about going the natural gas route

 

[augiedoggy]

another vote for electric way more advantages like being able to hold temps and avoid boilovers easily as well.

 

[beernutz]

I have had natural gas heat and natural gas stoves in my houses for over 30 years. If they are killing me thankfully they are doing so very slowly.

That said, I brew outdoors on a natural gas powered herms rig which works great but if I was building an indoor system it would be powered by electricity.

 

[teesherv]

Just to throw in, I too tried to do natural gas indoors (closed garage with two hoods and a carbonmono detector). Second brew day inside, I started to feel light-headed and dizzy. That convinced me (and the wife) to go electric. While is was nerve racking to drill into the pot, it was better than unsafe brewing.
Also, I practiced drilling with a step drill on scrap pieces of metal until I was sure I could do it right. Go slow and get some experienced help if you can.

 

[Drumminguy81]

I have had natural gas heat and natural gas stoves in my houses for over 30 years. If they are killing me thankfully they are doing so very slowly.

That said, I brew outdoors on a natural gas powered herms rig which works great but if I was building an indoor system it would be powered by electricity.

Natural gas stoves or furnaces are designed with proper exhausts and vents to safely operate indoors, they also produce far less btu. An average stove burner is around 7k btu and a furnace would be around 100k completely vented out your roof. A natural gas banjo or jet burner can produce upwards of 200k btu venting directly into the room, there isn't really a good way to make sure all of the fumes are exhausted which is why all large banjo or jet burners have specific warnings to never use indoors.

 

[ancientmariner52]

For what it might be worth: there are a great many examples of brewers changing from gas to electric here, but I can't recall an instance of someone changing from electric to gas, unless forced by a move or other circumstances. This may or may not mean something.

 

[Austin W.]

I've decided that electric is the way I'm going. Now another question. Does anybody know how big of an induction plate, in watts, I would need to boil 5-7 gallons? If I were to go that route vs. adding an element to my pot. The cost difference between 3500w and 5000w is quite substantial.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have had natural gas heat and natural gas stoves in my houses for over 30 years. If they are killing me thankfully they are doing so very slowly.

That said, I brew outdoors on a natural gas powered herms rig which works great but if I was building an indoor system it would be powered by electricity.

I believe you know this already but theres big difference between a small stove flame from a stove designed for indoor use and a big high btu burner designed for outdoor or heavily ventilated use. all modern homes have vents above the stoves older homes like mine dont always have them.... then again my house had gas lighting and lead water pipes too at one time.

A natural gas furnace has a flame output not designed for indoor use either which is why its sealed from the indoors by a heat exchanger so none of the actual flame exhaust or gases escape indoors, and when they crack people can and sometimes do die... I happen to me as a kid and we all went to the hospital getting sick with bloody noses.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Most 5 gallon brewers use the 3500W model

 

[beernutz]

Natural gas stoves or furnaces are designed with proper exhausts and vents to safely operate indoors, they also produce far less btu. An average stove burner is around 7k btu and a furnace would be around 100k completely vented out your roof. A natural gas banjo or jet burner can produce upwards of 200k btu venting directly into the room, there isn't really a good way to make sure all of the fumes are exhausted which is why all large banjo or jet burners have specific warnings to never use indoors.

My

I believe you know this already but theres big difference between a small stove flame from a stove designed for indoor use and a big high btu burner designed for outdoor or heavily ventilated use. all modern homes have vents above the stoves older homes like mine dont always have them.... then again my house had gas lighting and lead water pipes too at one time.

A natural gas furnace has a flame output not designed for indoor use either which is why its sealed from the indoors by a heat exchanger so none of the actual flame exhaust or gases escape indoors, and when they crack people can and sometimes do die... I happen to me as a kid and we all went to the hospital getting sick with bloody noses.

Of course I do which is one of the reasons I wrote that if I was building an indoor system I'd use electricity. My quip about the danger of gas were because there are posts in this thread which seemed to suggest any natural gas indoors is a danger.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

It sounds like you have decided, but I will throw another vote for electric indoors anyway. I think you will be much happier.

I have never used induction so can't speak to that personally. A lot of people do use it and swear by it. I bet you can find a lot of posts on here about it and if 3500w will work. Is the Megapot induction capable? Put a magnet on the bottom, if it sticks, it is.

If you go with the element, you will need to address a few issues and make some additional decisions.

The #1 rule for electric is that everything needs to be on a GFCI circuit. Regardless whether you are running 120v or 240v do not violate this rule!. A simple short in a line could be deadly. If you don't have a 120v or 240v GFCI circuit you will need one. This can be an additional, GFCI spa panel or a GFCI circuit off your main panel.

If you can, you will be much happier with 240v. 120v can be used and does work for people (i.e. GrainFather). It is much slower (longer brew days) and limits batch size to 5 gallons or less. If you have a couple separate circuits, you can use a heat stick on each one to get to boiling.

If you go the element route, instead of Induction, you will need some sort of controller. It could be something as easy to manufacture as a 9000-10000 watt motor speed governor or something like a PID based Electric Brewery controller. You can spend $40-50 for a simple DIY PID build on up to$2000 for a full blown pre-assembled system.

As you and others have said, drilling the holes you may need can be a little intimidating. But, it really is pretty easy. I would use a knockout punch for bigger holes and probably a step drill for smaller ones. Given that you are only going to use a punch a few times I am not sure I would go out and by the $40-$50 single Greenlee punch. Harbor Freight sells a 4 hole size set that will work just fine. They are $25 before using the usual 20% discount coupons you can find online at Valpak.com. If you are going to start a business punching holes get the Greenlee, otherwise don't bother.

Finally, you will need some ventalation. Once you get 5 gallons of wort boiling and reducing you will be creating a lot of steam (and a great smell that your wife will complain about). If you let the steam be, it could cause moisture problems. You will need to vent it. If you have a range hood that might work. I have a couple box fans I hang in front of the basement window in my brewery (I remove the window). I also open a window on the other end of the basement for inflow.

Good luck. Keep us informed of your progress.

 

[augiedoggy]

My

Of course I do which is one of the reasons I wrote that if I was building an indoor system I'd use electricity. My quip about the danger of gas were because there are posts in this thread which seemed to suggest any natural gas indoors is a danger.

Well in the context of how it would be used in this thread it kind of is.