Mystery ingredient in Duvel?

[MHBT]

I too would be curious what yeasts people are recommending for this beer. In a different thread, @MattyHBT mentioned that perhaps neither WLP570 or Wyeast 1388 are hitting the mark. My recommendation to try next would be WLP400, which gives a lot of pear and pepper when I've used it for beers other than witbier. Thoughts? Could we be using the wrong yeast?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...rong-besides-1388-or-570.701033/#post-9283141

1388 or 570 is said to be duvel yeast but 15 years and over 50 attempts never even slightly resembles duvel never, not even close and just cause people say 1388/570 is duvel yeast the finished beer tells a different story, i tried so many different techniques, you name it all failed, i tried different pils malts,blends of pils malts, different sugars, hops, tried lodo method, tried different ferm temp schedules , infusions, step mashing, decoction, different pitching rates, different water profiles , different mash ph, fermented under pressure, i tried soo hard to create duvel at home i came to conclusion its just not possible

 

[MHBT]

Also i believe moortgat uses different yeast at bottling for conditioning but im gonna culture some from the bottle and try that anyway, what can i lose at this point right?

 

[AlexKay]

Exactly can make a nice bgs but not duvel, i tried for 15 years they have a proprietary recipe/ process much like coca cola it’s impossible at home and i love how people say “ its easy just pils and sugar and styrians and saaz” no its not that simple

Are you getting to over 4 volumes of CO2? Because while it is all of those ingredients, if you don’t get the CO2 right nothing else will work either.

 

[MHBT]

Are you getting to over 4 volumes of CO2? Because while it is all of those ingredients, if you don’t get the CO2 right nothing else will work either.

You name it i tried it

 

[monkeymath]

1388 or 570 is said to be duvel yeast but 15 years and over 50 attempts never even slightly resembles duvel never, not even close and just cause people say 1388/570 is duvel yeast the finished beer tells a different story, i tried so many different techniques, you name it all failed, i tried different pils malts,blends of pils malts, different sugars, hops, tried lodo method, tried different ferm temp schedules , infusions, step mashing, decoction, different pitching rates, different water profiles , different mash ph, fermented under pressure, i tried soo hard to create duvel at home i came to conclusion its just not possible

I applaud your dedication, but I reading this I can't help but wonder "why?", when you can also just buy Duvel? (Assuming it's available where you live and you weren't basing the comparisons to your homebrew on some distant memory from when you were in a Belgium as a young sailor.)

 

[MHBT]

I applaud your dedication, but I reading this I can't help but wonder "why?", when you can also just buy Duvel? (Assuming it's available where you live and you weren't basing the comparisons to your homebrew on some distant memory from when you were in a Belgium as a young sailor.)

It was the beer that got me into beer, i know it’s ridiculous ( at least now i do) i just had this strong desire to recreate duvel at home, i think i was just trying to make myself proud needless to say i do in fact just buy duvel now

 

[VikeMan]

You name it i tried it

I seem to remember a Duvel "clone" recipe in a really awful clone recipe book. It called for adding pears. Apparently the brewing "expert(s)" who wrote it weren't weren't familiar with esters.

 

[MHBT]

I seem to remember a Duvel "clone" recipe in a really awful clone recipe book. It called for adding pears. Apparently the brewing "expert(s)" who wrote it weren't weren't familiar with esters.

Thats something I didn’t try cause intuitively know thats not the way but i did see a homebrewer do that recipe on YouTube years ago faroutadventures, the beer was dark

 

[MicroMickey]

I certainly understand and applaud MattyHBT's unswerving dedication to this personal challenge to recreate Duvel. It is certainly a worthwhile task. I truly hope that someday you figure it out.

 

[MHBT]

I certainly understand and applaud MattyHBT's unswerving dedication to this personal challenge to recreate Duvel. It is certainly a worthwhile task. I truly hope that someday you figure it out.

Thank you mikey, but i think sneaking into moortgat mission impossible style is the only way and im too fat to fit in the air vents probably

 

[MicroMickey]

I'm too fat also but my Avatar on the other hand . . .

 

[Miraculix]

Have you ever tried to use loads of low alpha hops to get the desired Ibus, instead of higher alpha varieties? For example 2% saaz or something like that. That plus at least a month in the bottle, better two or even more. Irish moss during the last ten minutes of the boil also helps.

I've tried this now a few times and the positive changes regarding the foam were quite dramatic.

 

[MHBT]

Have you ever tried to use loads of low alpha hops to get the desired Ibus, instead of higher alpha varieties? For example 2% saaz or something like that.

I've tried this now a few times and the positive changes regarding the foam were quite dramatic.

I indeed tried low alpha saaz think even 1.8 aa saaz before the foam is not even a concern really that is more of the icing on the cake, i figure getting the flavor and aroma of duvel was my main undertaking which i could never achieve, if i was to finally be able to achieve that my next coarse of action would have been getting “duvel head” and one “secret” ( hear say)i do know is moortgat uses tetra iso hop extract to get that fluffy head that dries to the glass but I cannot get it, i tried

 

[MHBT]

I have let a “duvel clone” age for a year before all it did was go stale it is a agable beer but one must take proper steps to ensure o2 ingress is at a minimum, i screwed up by the end of the year beer was copper colored vs bright yellow gold when it was fresh

 

[MHBT]

This is a sample of my latest attempt fresh from primary, bout 2 weeks old, there is a ton of yeast in suspension so its still 100% cloudy but the color is ok its yellow/gold, thats about the only duvelish character i can achieve is the color
Not intentional but eddie looks pleased with the color

 

[Spivey24]

Are you getting to over 4 volumes of CO2? Because while it is all of those ingredients, if you don’t get the CO2 right nothing else will work either.

The first thing I notice with any attempt at a Duvel clone, is the carbonation. The Duvel is intensely carbonated to a level I can’t reproduce in kegs for sure. It’s almost too much for my taste. Similar problem when doing a miller lite clone. Both are also dry to a level I have difficulty matching.

 

[MHBT]

Getting 4 volumes of co2 is a non issue

 

[MHBT]

The first thing I notice with any attempt at a Duvel clone, is the carbonation. The Duvel is intensely carbonated to a level I can’t reproduce in kegs for sure. It’s almost too much for my taste. Similar problem when doing a miller lite clone. Both are also dry to a level I have difficulty matching.

Why cant you get 4 vols in a keg?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The first thing I notice with any attempt at a Duvel clone, is the carbonation. The Duvel is intensely carbonated to a level I can’t reproduce in kegs for sure. It’s almost too much for my taste.

See my link in #16 above - they force carb to 2.55 vol, then add sugar to bottle-ferment up to 4.3 vol.

 

[Spivey24]

Why cant you get 4 vols in a keg?

I can’t currently. It would be a foamy mess. It says I would need 20 ft of line for the 24psi needed. Maybe you can on your system.

 

[MHBT]

I can’t currently. It would be a foamy mess. It says I would need 20 ft of line for the 24psi needed. Maybe you can on your system.

You can get a flow control faucet too, im sure you knew that already, with this type of beer i always bottle condition anyway, if i kegged this type of beer id probably be in prison

 

[VikeMan]

I can’t currently. It would be a foamy mess. It says I would need 20 ft of line for the 24psi needed. Maybe you can on your system.

Couple of choices if you want to do it:
- Swap out your regular line for a longer line for this beer. Beer line is cheap, generally speaking.
- Use a Flow Control faucet.

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Having a little "Duvel Clone" right now. It LOOKS a lot like Duvel with the foamy head. Tastes good, but it's not Duvel. This is from Northern Brewer's all grain kit - "Belgian Strong Golden." I used 2 packs of BE-256 for 5 gallon batch. 1.079 -> 1.006 ABV 9.6%. It's quite enjoyable but not Duvel. Nice head but not as fizzy or clear.

 

[MHBT]

Having a little "Duvel Clone" right now. It LOOKS a lot like Duvel with the foamy head. Tastes good, but it's not Duvel. This is from Northern Brewer's all grain kit - "Belgian Strong Golden." I used 2 packs of BE-256 for 5 gallon batch. 1.079 -> 1.006 ABV 9.6%. It's quite enjoyable but not Duvel. Nice head but not as fizzy or clear.
View attachment 770473

I wanted to try that kit, would you brew it again?

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

I wanted to try that kit, would you brew it again?

Definitely!

 

[bwible]

I’m pretty sure there is a recipe for Duvel in the book “Clonebrews” which was a best seller in the 90s. Anybody have it or tried that one? Belgians are not my thing. I tried brewing Leffe a couple times for my dad because it became one of his favorites after I bought him a case one year around Christmas. Outside of that, I don’t brew belgians and haven’t for over a decade.

 

[bwible]

I too would be curious what yeasts people are recommending for this beer. In a different thread, @MattyHBT mentioned that perhaps neither WLP570 or Wyeast 1388 are hitting the mark. My recommendation to try next would be WLP400, which gives a lot of pear and pepper when I've used it for beers other than witbier. Thoughts? Could we be using the wrong yeast?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...rong-besides-1388-or-570.701033/#post-9283141

1214 says Abbey Ale yeast, reputed to be Chimay? 3864 became private collection with limited availabilty, “Canadian/Belgian ale”. Now that couldn’t be Unibroue, could it? I’ve used 3864 in the past and I remember the beer (belgian strong golden) having almost a candy sweetness. Ymmv.

 

[MHBT]

I was thinking of giving 3522 ardennes a run

 

[MHBT]

You know what ? Screw all yhese Belgians , 1056 baby

 

[MikeCo]

This article from CB&B has some insight on how Duvel is made. I find it interesting that they use a combination of natural and forced carbonation.

https://beerandbrewing.com/giving-the-devil-its-due-brewing-it-golden-and-strong-the-duvel-way/