Mystery film inside bottles

[Barley_Bob]

Hey, I'm noticing a new problem (is it a problem), and I'm looking for some quick advice.

Some of my bottles are developing some kind of film or scum inside them, and I have no idea what it is. I always rinse my bottles after using them, and then I rinse in starsan right before bottling. This has never been an issue before.

It kind of looks like yeast, but it's stuck up on the sides. A strong bleach solution is removing it, but I'm wondering if getting it off is even necessary? I'm eager to hear thoughts on what it is and on whether or not it's worth bothering with.

I'm hoping to be bottling right now, and I don't really want to bleach half my bottles. If it's necessary, I will, of course.

 

[Aristotelian]

How about posting a picture?

 

[thelastleroy]

Post a picture? Is it water spots from minerals in your tap water? I would say that any foreign material in your bottles is a bad thing, but bleach residue could prove problematic too. Starsan will usually dissolve most organic film on plastic I've encountered. Try a test soak in starsan solution on 1 bottle. If it works just do a batch soak before bottling and you're ready to rock.

These kinds of problems are what drove me to kegging....

 

[Barley_Bob]

Well, I just put bleach in all of them. It seems like it's coming out quickly, so I figured I may as well do it. I don't think I could give you a good picture though. The flash off the outside of the bottle would make it impossible to see.

It's not a water stain, I can say that. Those rinse right out.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Oh, here's some fun info:

During bleaching, larger bits peel off and float around. But even more interestingly, the film is causing the bleach solution to foam slightly, and the tops of the bottle all have it, this white, dense foam. Very weird.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Maybe it's beer stone? What the hell is beer stone? And why would it afflict my bottles?

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

Mystery film eh? I much prefer comedies or suspense films in my bottles. An occasional 'adults-only' film is okay too.

:fro:

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mystery film eh? I much prefer comedies or suspense films in my bottles. An occasional 'adults-only' film is okay too.

:fro:

Send those bottles to me! All I got was Foreign Romance...

 

[Barley_Bob]

Well, I still don't know what it was, but my beer is all bottled. My bet is beer stone, but it's hard to say. I don't understand why one batch would leave so much behind while other batches would not. Nor do I understand why only 1/3-1/2 of the bottles would have it while the rest were fine.

Final notes:
This batch used WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt Ale.
Strong bleach solution cleaned it well in 30min-2hrs.
Vinegar seemed to also clean it, but much more slowly than the bleach did.
A bottle brush following a brief soak could really accelerate the cleaning process.

 

[jonny24]

I had something similar, and did a bleach as well. My guess was eventually a rinse doesn't quite cut it and after a few batches there's enough of something there for yeast to cling to. There's a thread with a few pictures of mine a few pages back. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580055

 

[Barley_Bob]

@jonny24 Picture 2 looks like what I had in some bottles. Some were worse than that, with larger patches/streaks of film. I don't know that it quite looked like picture 3, but it's hard to say.

I don't really think it's yeast. It could be. It kind of looks like yeast. But yeast always rinses out with warm water no problem. Whatever this is, I couldn't get it out with just water. It needs a lot more effort. Maybe it's yeast plus something else? Yeast plus beer stone?

I don't think it's yeast sticking to hard water spots, as someone in your thread suggests. Hard water spots disappear immediately in starsan.

 

[GHBWNY]

Beerstone (as you know) is not just a mineral scale problem, but a combination of minerals and proteins binding together to create the scale. Since the source of these proteins is the yeast, it would follow that rinsing your bottles well IMMEDIATELY following the pour and turning them upside down to drain would be a good start.

Regarding cleaning the bottles, I found this online @ Birko.com:

"Prior to bottling, use a 1-2 ounce per gallon phosphoric/nitric acid mixture (140 degree F. maximum temperature) for 15-30 minutes. No rinse.

Use a noncaustic alkaline cleaner at 1-2 ounces per gallon of warm (120-140 degree F.) to start. CIP for 15-30 minutes depending on conditions.

Rinse with ambient temperature water until the pH of the rinse water is neutral (same pH as the tap water coming in)."

Hope it helps for future brews.