My worst efficiency ever, 58%

[RedSun]

[vent]

I missed my OG by 10 points, so weak, even the volume was low. First time I've been off and I'm sure why, but ProMash is usually spot on with temps.

My infusion was at 165, which I now know is about 5 degrees too high for the new MLT so that's good to know, but my strike water didn't raise the temp near enough at the end. (First time doing it this way). Pre boil G was 1.032 at nearly 150 degrees.

I'm disappointed enough to take several months off.

[/vent]

 

[Bobby_M]

You're just gonna quit instead of trying to figure out what happened? I bet we'd nail it if you explained everything in detail. Striking at 165 seems about right for any tun and an average grain bill at 70F. If you didn't make your volume, you probably undersparged.

 

[Orfy]

Do you batch of fly sparge?

 

[RedSun]

You're right, I was just a little hot half hour ago.

Here's the setup. 11.65lbs grain, single step infusion w/strike.

Preheated the cooler like always, added grain and 165 degree water. Temps across the cooler were in the 158 range for nearly a half hour, much more than usual. Left the lids open and settled at about 152 so I knew it wouldn't be a great conversion, but still had hope.

Infusion was 14qt. After an hour, struck with 6qt of 200 degree, didn't raise my temp to 164 like expected, went maybe to 158. 15 min there.

Batch sparge was 12qt, wound up with nearly 6gal in the pot, probably 5.8 or so.

1 hour boil, did have a very slight boil over and I mean slight. Caught it just in time. Hasn't happened in a while, but I know the drill. Seemed to have a higher boil-off than usual today. Cooled nice and quickly, racked to carboy. I'll have to measure, but I'll bet I have 4.3gal in the carboy.

OG 1.054 (even with reduced volume), expected was 1.061 at 70% efficiency (I'm usually around 76% batch sparging lazily)

Pitched starter, threw it in bathtub as per usual. Waiting for ferment takeoff.

It was a new guy running the mill at the shop, but I'm positive my conversion was just super bad this go around. Okay, I feel better, but won't be my best Red Sun rendition.

 

[WBC]

Are you sure your volumes were correct for the measurments? Please post your recipe, equipment and process (as stated in the privious post) and you can figure what happened. There is no reason to get so discouraged as the beer will turn out to be BEER. Besides, this is how you learn what happens if the mash temp is high or low and the effects. I have found that as long as beer is not infected it is always drinkable.

 

[RedSun]

Glorious Red Sun of Krypton

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 11.65
Anticipated OG: 1.061 Plato: 15.01
Anticipated SRM: 16.3
Anticipated IBU: 25.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.052 SG 12.86 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
81.5 9.50 lbs. Maris Otter 2-Row Great Britain 1.038 3
4.3 0.50 lbs. Munich Malt Great Britain 1.037 6
4.3 0.50 lbs. Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 24
4.3 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
4.3 0.50 lbs. Weyermann Melanoidin Malt Germany 1.037 27
1.3 0.15 lbs. Roasted Barley Great Britain 1.029 575

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Wye Target Pellet 10.27 22.4 50 min.
0.75 oz. Fuggle Pellet 5.00 3.5 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WLP004


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Infusion w/ Strike Mash out

Total Grain Lbs: 11.65
Total Water Qts: 13.98 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 78.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacc. Rest 1 60 153 151 Infuse 165 13.98 1.20
Strike 5 15 164 164 Infuse 200 5.89 1.71

I use a 50qt Endurance cooler with copper manifold as mash tun. The strike water at 200 is the new part of the process. I've done this recipe before without it and without the melanoidin malt. I usually get pretty close on OG, within a few points more or less. Ton of grain beetles in teh grain this time, froze them out for a day in the freezer earlier in the week. Single batch sparge 12qt at ~170.

 

[PseudoChef]

Your sparge volume is way low. By my calcs, you should be sparging with around 22 qts water. (1.5 * the initial strike volume)

Were you taking gravity readings during the sparge? Did you get down to 1.010?

 

[WBC]

Ok, I see where you are having trouble. When you are using any new equipment you have to expect a learning curve. The very first time you use it is usually way harder to figure things out correctly. I would put strike water in the mash tun hotter than needed (15 degrees over the mash temp works for me) and then stir and wait until it is stabilized (with the lid on) at strike temp and then quickly open it and add the grains. That way you have a much better chance that you will be at the correct mash temperature after adding the grains. Sparging with the correct amt of water at the right temps is important too.

 

[RedSun]

That's a great idea, I should have been a bit more careful with temps, that's for sure. Would being off 5 degrees for a half hour hurt my efficiency that much? I'm expecting so. I ddin't get to 1.010 with my sparge water, that I do know. Once I was at volume I more or less had to call it quits. I vorlaufed a few times of course as per usual.

 

[WBC]

Would being off 5 degrees for a half hour hurt my efficiency that much?

Sure, If you would have had ice available you could have put small amt's in and stir until you were closer to the mash temp. Go slowly with this. Be very careful to stir to stabilize the temp and put the lid back on to help with this. I use a mash thermometer I push through a hole in my lid so I know what is going on in there. You would not have had this much problem if your mash water would have been in the mash tun at a stabilized strike temp and then adding the grains.

 

[RedSun]

Haha, I did put some ice in there, but I was afraid that stirring the mash wasn't a good idea so I didn't get much effect from it. My mash therm is probe style so I can close the lid. From now on I'll reverse the process. Water in, then add grain, instead of the other way around. Probably just lucky till now... I still hope it's good. Had a nice red color already.

 

[bigben]

I wouldnt worry dude. I missed my first PARTIAL mash by about 18 points due to temperature problems... Beer still tasted great, just didnt get me drunk that fast

 

[RedSun]

I know I'm not brewing at lab specs, but I'm a bit more of a perfectionist than ideal (didn't have enough homebrew while brewing). On the bright side, being completely sober we did the whole thing in just under 4 hours. Had most things pre-setup before hand. Brewhouse efficiency ~55%, brewday efficiency ~90%

Thanks guys, I'm feeling a lot better now. Hope to repay the favor soon.

 

[WBC]

I was afraid that stirring the mash wasn't a good idea so I didn't get much effect from it.

Stiring the mash to even the temp is always a good idea. Stir any time you want. It helps to get the enzymes mixed into the other grains for a more complete conversion and even temps. Stir just before a vorlauf, rest to extract more of the sugar from the grain. Recirculte and it will come out clear. When you sparge do the same thing and your efficiancy will go way up.

 

[Shoopdog]

I realize your volume was off, but I am leaning towards a bad crush. Your temps were good enough to get conversion in the time frame you specified. My grain mill made a world of difference in my efficiency and I am now getting anywhere from 76-82%.

 

[Bobby_M]

I do like WBC suggests. Initial infusion goes in hot, cover the lid for 5 minutes to let the cooler pull all the heat it's going to. Check the temp and stir with the lid open until you hit the temp that your software tells you to use. Then dough in, stir well.

When you say strike, I think you mean "mash out" infusion right? Maybe I'm the one confused with the correct terminology.

You must be using a 7.5 gallon pot right? For a 5 gallon batch, I like to work with a preboil volume of about 6.5. You ought to take an OG on the very last running to see how much you're under sparging. If it's 1.020 or more, you can benefit from running another gallon through.

 

[RedSun]

Yeah, 30qt. I usually get it to just about 6gal pre-boil so I thought I was doin great today. 30 min at 158, not so hot though. I'm going to switch my process to dough in after getting the prime water temp. Crush was a little less milled than usual, but I'm far from learned enough to know for sure.

I did take pics though I think....

 

[Bobby_M]

Even if you have to sparge one more gallon and boil it in a small pot separately, do it. Once you boil for 30 minutes, you should have room to recombine.

 

[faber]

Lots of great advice here.

I'l echo that you should check the gravity of all runnings, from vorlauf to the last bit you can sparge out. And keep sparging until your hydrometer, not your kettle size, says enough.

 

[RedSun]

I've done enough brews that I, like most of you, get a little lazy when it comes to taking gravity of all runnings, but you're right, I should. I think I'll just go back to no sparge, perfect for the lazy, but super tasty brews. Definitely appreciate the advice, soothed the ill will I was feeling.

As a note, fermentation lagged 6 hours and I came home today and it smells great!

 

[RedSun]

I racked to secondary at 1.012 tonight, sadly I've got an amber with virtually no hint of red, which is unusual. Recipe isn't much different than in the past. Taste is, thus far, quite poor. I know things can change so I'm still hoping clarification will give me a little more red color and a softening of the biscuity flavor. I wouldn't say it's a Seabiscuit exactly, but it's somethin...