at one of the local liquor stores here if you don't bring the keg back in 48 hours they won't return the deposit. You can exchange it for another keg as a deposit, but you can't get the deposit back. since I can no longer drink a half barrel in 48 hours is it wrong of me to keep the keg.
My search of kegs
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Darwin18
Well-Known Member
Do you know if that's the case of all of NYS or just NYC? I'm going to be in the Poughkeepsie area for Christmas and this is a good deal.
BradleyBrew
Well-Known Member
got mine for $5 at a yard sale. It already had the top cut off. Its now my ekeggle, and I'll never brew with propane again.
A previous discussion drove me nuts so I started with the NYS penal law and ended up speaking to one of my friends who is an assistant DA in Brooklyn. I laid out the entire thing in a post somewhere. Basically, in NY state, when you transfer ownership of a packaged item, you transfer the package also. The keg deposit and promise to return it is a civil arrangement between the parties, nothing more. If a brewery or distributor wants some sort of recourse, they'll have to bring you to civil court, a highly unlikely scenario.
KNOTSANE
Well-Known Member
Good job on getting your kegs. All I can say is you have bigger stones than I do, to meet up with a stranger late at night in a dark secluded place with a cash transaction on the line.
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WesleyS
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That's crazy you had to go through all that to get a couple kegs. But the good thing is now you have them. I'm glad my search for kegs went nothing like that. I bought two from a cop who had them for years and then I saw one at a scrap yard when I went to sell a bunch of cans and bought it. Both transactions took place in the light of day and no shady business.
My thoughts exactly. There's no keg task force out there looking to take people down. I'm willing to bet a good majority of the corny kegs out there are technically "stolen" as well. have fun brewing well over 200 gallons a year on our stolen land with the kegs you paid honest money for. If the company that these were "stolen" from wanted them back/wanted to be reimbursed for them they'd either a) contact the person who signed for them or b) charge the card the deposit was left with in the amount of the difference. If the store is taking cash deposits they're not very smart and got caught slipping. Brew free or die!
Airborneguy said:
Well, when they start charging $150 on a keg deposit in NYS we will know why.
They are not his to sell unless he bought them from the brewery.
No, but you will go to hell.
Go rent a car and see if they let you keep it because you paid a deposit.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
Read my prior posts. NY law says that when a packaged product is sold, so is the package it comes in. I've researched and confirmed this through more than one source. The deposit is merely a civil arrangement agreed upon to offer incentive to return it. In NY, it is not a criminal act to keep a keg, PERIOD.
Well, when they start charging $150 on a keg deposit in NYS we will know why.
Can't disagree with this honestly. But I'd imagine keg theft isn't really a major issue, because otherwise high deposits would be the norm.
OK if you say so.
Around here the least deposit I know of is $100.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1956284...-beer-makers-feeling-tapped-out/#.UHm-k3S9KSM
http://www.scrap.org/ArticlesArchive/2008/January-February/keg_theft.htm
pohldogg
Well-Known Member
Your prior post noted that you asked a prosecutor and were told that you wouldn't be prosecuted. All that means is that in NY stealing a keg is not a prosecutable offense. The fact that the brewery could initiate a civil case against you means that it is indeed against the law. You can't sue somebody for not breaking the law. By paying the deposit and promising to return the keg you've entered into a legal contract to do so, and by keeping the keg you've broken the contract and have therefore stolen it.
Negative, I said it is not a crime. And your description of civil laws is not accurate by the way.
Look, argue all you want, but criminal matters vary from state to state and even between localities. Trust me, I know a thing or two about criminal law... BUT, to be sure, I still ran it by my friend and he assured me that the package is legally transferred with the product here in NY, so any deposit is merely a contractual (ie civil) arrangement and not criminally enforceable.
Look, argue all you want, but criminal matters vary from state to state and even between localities. Trust me, I know a thing or two about criminal law... BUT, to be sure, I still ran it by my friend and he assured me that the package is legally transferred with the product here in NY, so any deposit is merely a contractual (ie civil) arrangement and not criminally enforceable.
I haven't purchased a keg in a long time, but I'm pretty sure that they have raised the deposit here also. Next time I'm at my distributor ill ask.
pohldogg
Well-Known Member
And I stand by that as a homebrewer you know what a keg costs and that it's way more than the deposit and screwing a pro brewer like that makes you a d-bag. Where's the brewer's code.
That's your prerogative. I myself don't own and never have owned a single keg other than my cornies, so whatever. But the law is the law and spouting off about 'the brewers code' doesn't change that. I personally hold no allegiances to any breweries anyway.
In regards to your description of civil law, you couldn't be more wrong. Anyone can sue for anything, literally. I can file papers to sue you right now if I wanted to claiming emotional distress over this conversation. Civil law is nothing like criminal law. In most cases, signing a contract between two parties does not create a criminally enforceable situation.
Look, I understand people here get protective of breweries, I get that. But this just isn't stealing by definition. If you morally believe it is, fine, there's nothing wrong with your opinion. But it is not law.
pohldogg
Well-Known Member
I will concede all legal points since I'm not a lawyer and will obviously get legalesed under the table. But in all the pages of this thread nobody's made an argument that keeping a keg for the deposit price is somehow justified as decent human behavior. Legal doesn't mean right.
Its got nothing to do with "Protecting the breweries". Its a point of honor. That's all. Do what you want, but don't pi$$ on my head and tell me its raining.
This very well may be stealing where you guys come from, laws vary from state to state. I've never argued that point. I just can't fathom why some people get so worked up over the fact that this is not a crime everywhere. Breweries are businesses, nothing more. They want your money just like any other business. I don't subscribe to the mindset that "Vinny" is our buddy, "Sam" brews for the people, and Budweiser is the evil wizard high up on the forbidden mountain. That mind set is at play whenever you guys demonize someone for this, you can't deny that. Hell this guy didn't even do what I'm telling you is legal, he purchased them from a third party.
If you derive a personal sense of honor from allegiance to commercial breweries, that's commendable I suppose. I'm certainly not going to be insulted by that, especially when what we disagree on is perfectly legal where I come from. I'm also not a lawyer. I'm just not someone who accepts "because breweries are cool" as a reason to bash other people's choices.
If you derive a personal sense of honor from allegiance to commercial breweries, that's commendable I suppose. I'm certainly not going to be insulted by that, especially when what we disagree on is perfectly legal where I come from. I'm also not a lawyer. I'm just not someone who accepts "because breweries are cool" as a reason to bash other people's choices.
You sure do have a hangup about commercial breweries. I have in no way espoused any allegiance to anything other than keeping your word, and paying your way. The reason I don't steal, is not because "breweries are cool". To take your argument there, illustrates the weakness of it. The laws of NY, and your interpretation of them may, effectively, make keeping a keg on deposit non prosecutable. But not a legitimate purchase. I submit to you the articles previously submitted by Denny in a previous post. Any company must recover all of its costs to remain in business. This includes the loss or theft of property. Inflated prices are the result. Your allegiance is irrelevant to the point. When buying shoes, or building supplies, or stainless steel products, you are paying for the other guy who stole. He may be chuckling to himself, especially as he has others who excuse his behavior by calling it "Other peoples choice". In the long run we all pay. With higher prices, or diminished availability.
Furthermore, honor is not something you "derive a personal sense of ". But I suppose I would be wasting my time to explain that.
I know a thing or two about honor, but I'm certainly not going to cheapen my experiences because of your decision to apply the word to this situation. Especially since I've never broken this cardinal rule that you apparently live by.
cookstownbrewer
Active Member
As a former member of my countries military I find the use of the word "honor" in this case to be extremely uncomfortable.
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