My Regulators...what is wrong?

[Evan]

Last sunday i hook up a new keg, i have about 10lbs in my 20lb CO2 tank. i come home from work monday and my tank is empty. i have some new kegs, and i figure the new keg has a leak. get the tank filled and yesterday and today i've been fighting weird things.

i have 4 regulators in a row, regulator #2 has been letting the pressure rise (so i stopped using it). once i get my tank filled...all of a sudden regulator #3 and #4 have been frosting over and the gage needle just jumps, it also appears the pressure relief valve on the regulator body is letting CO2 out, but th needle is jumping around anywhere from 5psi to 20psi.

any ideas...i'm assuming regulators 3&4 are shot, i've assumed for a while #2 is shot. just seems odd that #'s 3&4 would go at the same time, but maybe that is why my tank empited sunday night.

I have time to work on it this weekend, but currently i'm shutting my tank off until i get some ideas on what is happening.

 

[Evan]

bump...no one?

 

[hopsoda]

maybe gas is flowing through 3 to 4 and freezing up 3? ... IDK?
I would take them apart and test them individually.

 

[chuggs]

#2 with rising pressure is probably a high side leak...leaking valve seat, where it's pressed, or threaded to regulator body...or a really worn poppet valve seat.

The frosting up is an indication that shouldn't be ignored.

I know it's a long shot...but make sure you don't have a siphon tank attached. Only Gaseous CO2 should enter the regulator...not liquid. Like a say, a long shot.

With that emliminated. Looks like your going to have to break these babies apart. There seems to be a blockage going on. When you run CO2 from HIGH PRESSURE to LOW PRESSURE through a blockage...it behaves like an orifice on an airconditioning unit. That's what's causing the frosting. You might look for the blockage just upsteam of the first frost indication. Remove the blockage...and you've solved a lot of your problems.

If you have IMI Cornelius regulators...

You'll need keg lube, screw driver, adjustable wrench, liquid dishwashing detergent (few drops in a bowl with a little water), paper towels, q-tips.

Disconnect the regulators from the tank. UNSCREW ALL THE PRESSURE SET SCREWS. REMOVE THE COVERS (w/4 screws) carefully to not loose parts and set to the side. If you have regulators with different pressure ranges...make sure you keep the proper cover with the proper regulator.

Remove the Big Hex Nut on the back of the regulator. You'll come away with a brass plug, w/ an O-ring seal...a screen...a spring...and a poppet valve. 1) Clean any debris you find on the parts as you go. Re-Lube the o-ring. Clean the screen. Inspect the spring to make sure it's not broken.. Inspect the Valve seating surface for wear. Now look down inside and you'll see the port with a raised lip around the perimeter. It should be clean of debris.

Set the nut on the table...put the screen on top of it...place the spring inside....rest the poppet valve ontop of the spring w/plastic seat facing up. With your other hand hold the regulator over those parts and lower it down gently onto them...slide to the edge of the table and carfully screw the nut down tight...don't let it cross thread.

With that assembled on all the regulators...attach the assembly to your tank.

Wear eye protection! You're going to make sure the HIGH SIDE is working properly.

Open the tank valve to allow pressure into the HIGH SIDE manifold.

Dip a q-tip into the soapy solution...and use it to check for leaks on each of the poppet valves...also check the seam where the silver valve seat peice joins the brass body. There should be no bubbles. If you find a leak...it needs to be fixed. It's either the little gasket between the silver/brass peice...or a bad union between the plastic poppet seat and the seating edge of the silver port.

Next...run soap solution around the joints of the regulator body at the 3 o'clock, and 9 o'clock position. These are the High Side ports. There should be no leaks. If they do...you'll have to shut off the gas...and disassember the joint and reseal with pipe sealer or teflon tape. (Note..they are usually LEFT Hand Thread on Primary regulators)

IF you've gotten this far...it's pretty easy from here.

Inspect your cover assembly. There will be a FLAT Black Gasket...it goes down on the regulator body first. I'd clean it...and give it a very light lube with keg lube.

Next comes the Domed Brass Piece with the red center seal. Make sure the seal is clean...a very light lube would be okay..and set it down ontop of the black gasket with the depression facing into the regulator. The next piece is the diaphram and needle valve. Inspect, clean, and very lightly lube the outter edge of the diaphram. You should see light if you look through the needle valve. Gently mate it with the domed brass part...inserting the needle valve into the center hole in the red seal. Place the big sping ontop of that part centered on the brass cup. Place the silver screw cup onto of the spring. Now lower the cover and reattach the 4 screws. Finger tight at firrst...then tighten then as evenly as possible a little at a time to get a good even pressure on the diaphram seal, and black gasket seal.

Now inspect the LOW SIDE.

Re attach the regulator. With the adjusting screws still backed off. Open the tank valve. Inspect each regulator one at a time.

First set the screw to say 10 psi. Let it stabilize. Using soap...check your low side connections at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position. Also check the pressure relief valve. Anything bubbling needs to be fixed. If the relief valve is leaking...your probably doomed. But you can try to reseat it by putting a metal ring through the hole in the relief valve stem. And pulling it to let gas escape forcefully...hopefully cleaning any debris in there...and then letting it reseat.

Now put a little soap on the q-tip and put it on the weep hole of the regulator cover. There shouldn't be bubbling going on...unless you're adjusting the regulator. Some small weepage may occur due to the warming up of the CO2 inside the regulator body. What it basically does is vent excess pressure from the low side chamber. This hole is part of the regulator function and should not be blocked.

That's about it...

There are overhaul kits that you can buy than include Gasket, Diaphram, Needle Valve, Poppet Valve, o-ring, poppet spring, etc...for rebuilding a faulty regulator.

You're regulator should work good as new when done.

Cornelius color codes their regulators. For example...a red label is a 160 psi max regulator. I have mostly green label 60 psi max regulators. There are 4 different colored Main Springs available too.. 30 psi, 60 psi, 100 psi, 160 psi...etc...

Try to keep the right spring, cover with the right regulator body if you have different ones. It does no good to have a 160 psi spring set in a regulator body with a 30-35 psi relief valve.

Hope it helps and gets you flowing again.

 

[Evan]

#2 with rising pressure is probably a high side leak...leaking valve seat, where it's pressed, or threaded to regulator body...or a really worn poppet valve seat.

The frosting up is an indication that shouldn't be ignored.

I know it's a long shot...but make sure you don't have a siphon tank attached. Only Gaseous CO2 should enter the regulator...not liquid. Like a say, a long shot.

With that emliminated. Looks like your going to have to break these babies apart. There seems to be a blockage going on. When you run CO2 from HIGH PRESSURE to LOW PRESSURE through a blockage...it behaves like an orifice on an airconditioning unit. That's what's causing the frosting. You might look for the blockage just upsteam of the first frost indication. Remove the blockage...and you've solved a lot of your problems.

If you have IMI Cornelius regulators...

You'll need keg lube, screw driver, adjustable wrench, liquid dishwashing detergent (few drops in a bowl with a little water), paper towels, q-tips.

Disconnect the regulators from the tank. UNSCREW ALL THE PRESSURE SET SCREWS. REMOVE THE COVERS (w/4 screws) carefully to not loose parts and set to the side. If you have regulators with different pressure ranges...make sure you keep the proper cover with the proper regulator.

Remove the Big Hex Nut on the back of the regulator. You'll come away with a brass plug, w/ an O-ring seal...a screen...a spring...and a poppet valve. 1) Clean any debris you find on the parts as you go. Re-Lube the o-ring. Clean the screen. Inspect the spring to make sure it's not broken.. Inspect the Valve seating surface for wear. Now look down inside and you'll see the port with a raised lip around the perimeter. It should be clean of debris.

Set the nut on the table...put the screen on top of it...place the spring inside....rest the poppet valve ontop of the spring w/plastic seat facing up. With your other hand hold the regulator over those parts and lower it down gently onto them...slide to the edge of the table and carfully screw the nut down tight...don't let it cross thread.

With that assembled on all the regulators...attach the assembly to your tank.

Wear eye protection! You're going to make sure the HIGH SIDE is working properly.

Open the tank valve to allow pressure into the HIGH SIDE manifold.

Dip a q-tip into the soapy solution...and use it to check for leaks on each of the poppet valves...also check the seam where the silver valve seat peice joins the brass body. There should be no bubbles. If you find a leak...it needs to be fixed. It's either the little gasket between the silver/brass peice...or a bad union between the plastic poppet seat and the seating edge of the silver port.

Next...run soap solution around the joints of the regulator body at the 3 o'clock, and 9 o'clock position. These are the High Side ports. There should be no leaks. If they do...you'll have to shut off the gas...and disassember the joint and reseal with pipe sealer or teflon tape. (Note..they are usually LEFT Hand Thread on Primary regulators)

IF you've gotten this far...it's pretty easy from here.

Inspect your cover assembly. There will be a FLAT Black Gasket...it goes down on the regulator body first. I'd clean it...and give it a very light lube with keg lube.

Next comes the Domed Brass Piece with the red center seal. Make sure the seal is clean...a very light lube would be okay..and set it down ontop of the black gasket with the depression facing into the regulator. The next piece is the diaphram and needle valve. Inspect, clean, and very lightly lube the outter edge of the diaphram. You should see light if you look through the needle valve. Gently mate it with the domed brass part...inserting the needle valve into the center hole in the red seal. Place the big sping ontop of that part centered on the brass cup. Place the silver screw cup onto of the spring. Now lower the cover and reattach the 4 screws. Finger tight at firrst...then tighten then as evenly as possible a little at a time to get a good even pressure on the diaphram seal, and black gasket seal.

Now inspect the LOW SIDE.

Re attach the regulator. With the adjusting screws still backed off. Open the tank valve. Inspect each regulator one at a time.

First set the screw to say 10 psi. Let it stabilize. Using soap...check your low side connections at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position. Also check the pressure relief valve. Anything bubbling needs to be fixed. If the relief valve is leaking...your probably doomed. But you can try to reseat it by putting a metal ring through the hole in the relief valve stem. And pulling it to let gas escape forcefully...hopefully cleaning any debris in there...and then letting it reseat.

Now put a little soap on the q-tip and put it on the weep hole of the regulator cover. There shouldn't be bubbling going on...unless you're adjusting the regulator. Some small weepage may occur due to the warming up of the CO2 inside the regulator body. What it basically does is vent excess pressure from the low side chamber. This hole is part of the regulator function and should not be blocked.

That's about it...

There are overhaul kits that you can buy than include Gasket, Diaphram, Needle Valve, Poppet Valve, o-ring, poppet spring, etc...for rebuilding a faulty regulator.

You're regulator should work good as new when done.

Cornelius color codes their regulators. For example...a red label is a 160 psi max regulator. I have mostly green label 60 psi max regulators. There are 4 different colored Main Springs available too.. 30 psi, 60 psi, 100 psi, 160 psi...etc...

Try to keep the right spring, cover with the right regulator body if you have different ones. It does no good to have a 160 psi spring set in a regulator body with a 30-35 psi relief valve.

Hope it helps and gets you flowing again.

thanks a ton for that write up. when i get home this afternoon i'll take a closer look at them, and hopefully get them working again!

 

[samc]

#2 with rising pressure is probably a high side leak...leaking valve seat, where it's pressed, or threaded to regulator body...or a really worn poppet valve seat.

The frosting up is an indication that shouldn't be ignored.

I know it's a long shot...but make sure you don't have a siphon tank attached. Only Gaseous CO2 should enter the regulator...not liquid. Like a say, a long shot.

With that emliminated. Looks like your going to have to break these babies apart. There seems to be a blockage going on. When you run CO2 from HIGH PRESSURE to LOW PRESSURE through a blockage...it behaves like an orifice on an airconditioning unit. That's what's causing the frosting. You might look for the blockage just upsteam of the first frost indication. Remove the blockage...and you've solved a lot of your problems.

If you have IMI Cornelius regulators...

You'll need keg lube, screw driver, adjustable wrench, liquid dishwashing detergent (few drops in a bowl with a little water), paper towels, q-tips.

Disconnect the regulators from the tank. UNSCREW ALL THE PRESSURE SET SCREWS. REMOVE THE COVERS (w/4 screws) carefully to not loose parts and set to the side. If you have regulators with different pressure ranges...make sure you keep the proper cover with the proper regulator.

Remove the Big Hex Nut on the back of the regulator. You'll come away with a brass plug, w/ an O-ring seal...a screen...a spring...and a poppet valve. 1) Clean any debris you find on the parts as you go. Re-Lube the o-ring. Clean the screen. Inspect the spring to make sure it's not broken.. Inspect the Valve seating surface for wear. Now look down inside and you'll see the port with a raised lip around the perimeter. It should be clean of debris.

Set the nut on the table...put the screen on top of it...place the spring inside....rest the poppet valve ontop of the spring w/plastic seat facing up. With your other hand hold the regulator over those parts and lower it down gently onto them...slide to the edge of the table and carfully screw the nut down tight...don't let it cross thread.

With that assembled on all the regulators...attach the assembly to your tank.

Wear eye protection! You're going to make sure the HIGH SIDE is working properly.

Open the tank valve to allow pressure into the HIGH SIDE manifold.

Dip a q-tip into the soapy solution...and use it to check for leaks on each of the poppet valves...also check the seam where the silver valve seat peice joins the brass body. There should be no bubbles. If you find a leak...it needs to be fixed. It's either the little gasket between the silver/brass peice...or a bad union between the plastic poppet seat and the seating edge of the silver port.

Next...run soap solution around the joints of the regulator body at the 3 o'clock, and 9 o'clock position. These are the High Side ports. There should be no leaks. If they do...you'll have to shut off the gas...and disassember the joint and reseal with pipe sealer or teflon tape. (Note..they are usually LEFT Hand Thread on Primary regulators)

IF you've gotten this far...it's pretty easy from here.

Inspect your cover assembly. There will be a FLAT Black Gasket...it goes down on the regulator body first. I'd clean it...and give it a very light lube with keg lube.

Next comes the Domed Brass Piece with the red center seal. Make sure the seal is clean...a very light lube would be okay..and set it down ontop of the black gasket with the depression facing into the regulator. The next piece is the diaphram and needle valve. Inspect, clean, and very lightly lube the outter edge of the diaphram. You should see light if you look through the needle valve. Gently mate it with the domed brass part...inserting the needle valve into the center hole in the red seal. Place the big sping ontop of that part centered on the brass cup. Place the silver screw cup onto of the spring. Now lower the cover and reattach the 4 screws. Finger tight at firrst...then tighten then as evenly as possible a little at a time to get a good even pressure on the diaphram seal, and black gasket seal.

Now inspect the LOW SIDE.

Re attach the regulator. With the adjusting screws still backed off. Open the tank valve. Inspect each regulator one at a time.

First set the screw to say 10 psi. Let it stabilize. Using soap...check your low side connections at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position. Also check the pressure relief valve. Anything bubbling needs to be fixed. If the relief valve is leaking...your probably doomed. But you can try to reseat it by putting a metal ring through the hole in the relief valve stem. And pulling it to let gas escape forcefully...hopefully cleaning any debris in there...and then letting it reseat.

Now put a little soap on the q-tip and put it on the weep hole of the regulator cover. There shouldn't be bubbling going on...unless you're adjusting the regulator. Some small weepage may occur due to the warming up of the CO2 inside the regulator body. What it basically does is vent excess pressure from the low side chamber. This hole is part of the regulator function and should not be blocked.

That's about it...

There are overhaul kits that you can buy than include Gasket, Diaphram, Needle Valve, Poppet Valve, o-ring, poppet spring, etc...for rebuilding a faulty regulator.

You're regulator should work good as new when done.

Cornelius color codes their regulators. For example...a red label is a 160 psi max regulator. I have mostly green label 60 psi max regulators. There are 4 different colored Main Springs available too.. 30 psi, 60 psi, 100 psi, 160 psi...etc...

Try to keep the right spring, cover with the right regulator body if you have different ones. It does no good to have a 160 psi spring set in a regulator body with a 30-35 psi relief valve.

Hope it helps and gets you flowing again.

Great post - should be a keeper!

 

[Munsoned]

Dang. Thread is now on my subscribed list. Awesome. At a minumum, a mod should link this thread in the main kegging FAQ sticky...

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

Wow! +1 on the keeper! Great post!

 

[mudog]

Maybe a sticky, just an idea.

 

[chuggs]

For those of you with a thirst for knowledge...I offer these links. I've found them to be very informative.

From the IMI Cornelius Website...

The first link is for a .PDF file of their Post-Mix training manual. Post-Mix soda systems use CO2 to run the Carbonator...as well as Pnuematic force to operate the Soda Syrup Pumps... There is a good section on CO2 systems...and it explains a lot of information about these regulators.

http://www.cornelius.com/stellent/groups/web/@guest/documents/manual/002482.pdf#xml=?

The next one is an exploded view of the regulator parts. And you'll see that I used improper nomenclature in my previous post...sorry for that. I like to use technical terms familiar to many of us... Whatchamacallit, thingamabobb, etc...

http://www.cornelius.com/stellent/groups/web/@guest/documents/manual/001261.pdf#xml=?

Once you figure out how these little contraptions work...You'll find it easy to repair them. I've noticed a couple of differences between IMI Cornelius regulators and others...in that 1) The Cornelius regulator can be opened from the front and the back...where some others open from the front...and the Poppet seat can be screwed out from the front. Where the Cornelius has the poppet seat pressed in from the rear. And the Relief Valve on the Cornelius is integral to the machined body...and I haven't figured out a way to get that little pin out to be able to service it. I guess eventually I'll drill one out to see what makes it all work. Been tearing things up since I was 3 years old...no reason to stop at 50.

Enjoy... And be careful messing around with High Pressure Cryogenic Liquid!!!