My (Re)Build Thread - Kal Clone-ish

[SilverZero]

I mean if your going through the hassle of doing it once, why not just do it twice and never have to worry about it?

I'd think doing one welded/soldered TC and then on the other one welding a nut or going weldless would be more of a PITA as you have to drill different size holes. Or just drill two 2" holes, silver solder that bitch and call it a day!

After watching Bobby's soldering videos it seems like you have to use special flanged ferrules to make it work, and then you have to use his enclosure to mate it.

As for welding, I get the impression that the cost there is more than I'd expect. Nobody ever discloses how much it cost them to have fittings welded, everybody always says "take some homebrew with you to grease the wheels" or something. How much should it cost to get two TC ferrules welded?

For a boiling environment or an HLT, I don't understand why I'd need to remove the element, especially if I invest in the new all-SS ones. It might be nice but why not just unscrew it once every few batches and clean it? If it can be assembled, it can be disassembled and reassembled, right?

(UPDATE: I definitely did go with 2" TC ferrules and soldered them on myself. Read on below to see how it went. I'm glad I did it.)

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

After watching Bobby's soldering videos it seems like you have to use special flanged ferrules to make it work, and then you have to use his enclosure to mate it.

As for welding, I get the impression that the cost there is more than I'd expect. Nobody ever discloses how much it cost them to have fittings welded, everybody always says "take some homebrew with you to grease the wheels" or something. How much should it cost to get two TC ferrules welded?

For a boiling environment or an HLT, I don't understand why I'd need to remove the element, especially if I invest in the new all-SS ones. It might be nice but why not just unscrew it once every few batches and clean it? If it can be assembled, it can be disassembled and reassembled, right?

Special ferrule yes, but as far as i know it is just a 2" TC fitting. You can buy just the solder ferrule and use any 2" TC fittings or element enclosures. I would double check with him but its not a proprietary thing other than the back end shape to make it easy to solder on. The front is just a standard 2" TC.

I agree its probably not required for the HLT, really the only thing that will be going in it is water, although you will (i assume) be throwing Campden tablets in as well so there is that to clean possibly. The only reason im doing it is because i have a friend who is welding for free.

 

[SilverZero]

International Blue is the new black!

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[SilverZero]

Paint dried, components mounted.





I'm pretty much at the end of what I can do with this until my terminal strips arrive. I still need to order my Switchcraft and XLR receptacles and a heatsink (I was going to fabricate one myself using an old CPU heatsink and fan, but I'm getting lazy with it plus I'd have to power it). I think I have the rest of what I need for internal components

Maybe I'll be switching over to my kettles for a little while. I think I'll start with a couple of 2" TC ferrules and figure out how to silver solder them. Need to look up these terms like "dimple."

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Paint dried, components mounted.

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I'm pretty much at the end of what I can do with this until my terminal strips arrive. I still need to order my Switchcraft and XLR receptacles and a heatsink (I was going to fabricate one myself using an old CPU heatsink and fan, but I'm getting lazy with it plus I'd have to power it). I think I have the rest of what I need for internal components

Maybe I'll be switching over to my kettles for a little while. I think I'll start with a couple of 2" TC ferrules and figure out how to silver solder them. Need to look up these terms like "dimple."

Dont worry about dimpling, if you get Bobby's 2" TC Ferrule from Brewhardware they are already countoured to fit most pots. They also sell a flat version if your say welding one on the bottom of a kettle that has no curve.

Dimpling a 2" hole would be a huge PITA.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2rsf.htm

Also if its not too late, i wouldnt order Switchcraft cable ends. Their sockets are fine but i ordered 3 Switchcraft female plugs off Amazon and they are all supposed to have a set screw inside that you unscrew to hold the front connector to the shell itself but no matter what screwdriver i used, manual or power i ended up stripping all 3 and sent them back to Amazon as faulty. They are apparently threaded backwards, but i never got any of them to budge. The Neutrik ones are the same price and way better built IMO. Not only that but i found the cable release on the Switchcraft to be of dubious quality, i plugged one into one of my sockets and it took me a good 5 minutes of trying to push this stupid little button down and pulling as hard as i can and wiggling with a pair of pliers before i got it out, i was all but convinced it was stuck and i'd have to buy new sockets.

 

[SilverZero]

Dont worry about dimpling, if you get Bobby's 2" TC Ferrule from Brewhardware they are already countoured to fit most pots. They also sell a flat version if your say welding one on the bottom of a kettle that has no curve.

Dimpling a 2" hole would be a huge PITA.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2rsf.htm

Also if its not too late, i wouldnt order Switchcraft cable ends. Their sockets are fine but i ordered 3 Switchcraft female plugs off Amazon and they are all supposed to have a set screw inside that you unscrew to hold the front connector to the shell itself but no matter what screwdriver i used, manual or power i ended up stripping all 3 and sent them back to Amazon as faulty. They are apparently threaded backwards, but i never got any of them to budge. The Neutrik ones are the same price and way better built IMO. Not only that but i found the cable release on the Switchcraft to be of dubious quality, i plugged one into one of my sockets and it took me a good 5 minutes of trying to push this stupid little button down and pulling as hard as i can and wiggling with a pair of pliers before i got it out, i was all but convinced it was stuck and i'd have to buy new sockets.

Oh, I see, you're talking about the XLR ends. Yeah, I think I will get Neutrik for those.

As for the soldering flanges, I know I'm taking a bit of a risk with the dimple route but I can't justify spending so much on the special flanged ferrule. I have a pipe reducer that should work, I did a test run today on an old piece of scrap metal. If it fails I can always get the special ferrules and go from there.

 

[SilverZero]

Not much to share yet, it's been a crazy last week or so. I started wiring my panel, and I started in on my kettles. I drilled with a 1-3/4" bi-metal hole saw with a big drill (drill press was walking too much on the pilot hole and the drive belt would slip before it could generate enough torque on the saw teeth). Built a dimpling tool from some scraps, washers, a big bolt, and a 1"-2" pipe reducer.

Here's a preview of the 2" triclamp ferrule dimple I pulled yesterday:

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[jcav]

Wow SilverZero, you did an amazing job dimpling a hole that size. Looks great and good luck on the solder job!

John

 

[SilverZero]

Today was "learn to silver solder" day. It went pretty well.

My apparatus to hold the 2" ferrule in place (which was probably unnecessary, but I didn't want the fitting to fall out while I was heating the kettle):




First attempt was good, but there was a tiny leak where the dimple wasn't tight enough and the solder didn't fill it. I originally wrapped it on the inside of the dimple in the valley with 3 wraps of the Radnor (Harris) 4% silver solder from AirGas, and heated from the inside and the outside until it flowed. A large-ish blob dripped all the way to the flange of the ferrule and that's where the leak was. This picture is after I went around the perimeter of the joint on the outside wall heating the fitting and just touching the solder wire until it flowed, all the way around for good measure:


The joint is leak-free. Yay! But I did discover a pin-hole leak in the kettle wall. Boo!


I sanded, cleaned, fluxed, and dropped a tiny solder patch on the hole and retested. All good now, filled to the top to test everything under full fluid pressure:




I'll do the other kettle TC element fitting tomorrow, and hopefully my couplings will arrive soon so I can drill and fit for the ball valves. So far so good!

 

[jcav]

Way to go! Good patch job too on that leak. That's really unfortunate. You go through all that trouble, learned a new skill, went for it, did a great job and then oh crap I got a pin hole in the kettle wall.........

You should be proud, what a sense of accomplishment. I don't think I could pull that off on my Sabco kegs, so I am having the 2 inch ferrules welded this weekend.

John

 

[SilverZero]

Way to go! Good patch job too on that leak. That's really unfortunate. You go through all that trouble, learned a new skill, went for it, did a great job and then oh crap I got a pin hole in the kettle wall.........



You should be proud, what a sense of accomplishment. I don't think I could pull that off on my Sabco kegs, so I am having the 2 inch ferrules welded this weekend.



John

I am unabashedly doing this whole build as cheaply as I can, while still getting a nice system out of it. It's the same as my actual brewing philosophy: The fun is in the process. I don't mind doing the learning and the labor, it's a good way to kill the summer hours. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[SilverZero]

Uploading from my phone so the pics will just be at the end of the post. I built my C-HERMS coil yesterday. 25' of 3/8" ID copper tubing ($30 on Amazon) inside 3/4" PEX. Saved some money by digging through a box of copper fittings for the breakout design. Soldering isn't super pretty but it's alright. This will be a counterflow chiller and a counterflow HERMS coil.

I used cheap GatorBite push fittings to transition from the PEX to the copper so I could maximize the outer flow. $4.75 each or so. Any fittings that went inside the tubing were pretty tight around the copper coil (1/2" OD). I removed the plastic inserts for the same reason, the PEX seems strong enough without them. In retrospect I might have wanted to use 1" PEX but it only comes in larger lengths. As it is I got 50' of this stuff for $14 since they couldn't find the 25' rolls they said they had online.

There may be a few different configurations for the breakout plumbing but I just used what I had. A few pieces are FITTING reducers instead of normal, which means one end is pipe size, not coupling size. Saves on splices, but they also make tees with reduced ends. Using parts I had on hand I built the whole thing for $60 or so.

One other note: If anybody tries to do this, don't insert the copper into the push fitting until it's soldered onto the rest of the assembly or at least the tee and maybe a but more. You don't want to be soldering right next to the push fitting, it might melt something. I realized this after taking the first pictures above, but they're removable. It's just best to not keep refitting them, I gather. The only challenge is putting the whole assembly on, slipping it over the copper coil (tight fit) and getting it inserted into the fitting, without bending the coil or pushing it into the PEX. Not too bad, though.

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[SilverZero]

About done with the power wiring. I'm golfing today but I'm hoping to get the alarm and RTD circuits wired tomorrow. Need to install the XLR jacks, and I still have to order my power receptacles. Along with my element adapters. And elements. I got a great job offer so I might celebrate and just get pre-made element housing kits instead of building my own like I had planned.

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[jcav]

Nice and clean, interesting how you joined/spliced some of those wires that share the same run. Congrats on the new job, that's awesome!! Might as well splurge a little and get them pre-made like you wanted to!

Keep up the good work!

John

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

About done with the power wiring. I'm golfing today but I'm hoping to get the alarm and RTD circuits wired tomorrow. Need to install the XLR jacks, and I still have to order my power receptacles. Along with my element adapters. And elements. I got a great job offer so I might celebrate and just get pre-made element housing kits instead of building my own like I had planned.

I do really like my element guards from Brewhardware, some people say they are flimsy and maybe they are compared to the others out there but its good enough for me and its much cheaper. The StillDragon are close in price but after you factor in buying the 2" gasket, 2" ferrule, and 2" clamp its not really that much cheaper.

 

[jcav]

The thing I like about the StillDragon element guards, is that you don't have to turn the cap and screw it in to assemble it. Therefore the wires aren't under as much stress as they will be twisted a little, even if you start with a one rotation counter clockwise turn before you install. You just clamp the end cap in position and your done. I could be wrong though just my two cents... Bobby has excellent products and he stands by them. I have bought several items from him including my stainless ripple elements. I ended up going with StillDragon element guards and they are very well built also for the money and are heavy metal and plenty strong. I already had the 2 inch ferrule welded to my vessel though...

John

 

[dmcman73]

I have a stilldragon housing as well. I love the clamp together assembly and also, not sure if others have it, the stilldragon has a drip notch at the end of the cap where the wire come out. I see other housings are made water tight but, what happens if a small leak occurs between the element and pot and leaks into the housing? How would you know?

As for it not coming with a gasket, it does come with one. The gasket it comes with is not for the wire side. The wire side is supposed to get assembled without a gasket otherwise it would block the drip hole.

 

[SilverZero]

Nice and clean, interesting how you joined/spliced some of those wires that share the same run. Congrats on the new job, that's awesome!! Might as well splurge a little and get them pre-made like you wanted to!

Keep up the good work!

John

Yeah, I realized early on that most of these little connections can't share two terminal ends, so using the 2-to-1 butt splice connectors works out. Still a pain but hopefully they'll hold well. My dad has a case full of wire terminals and crimps so I'm not short of what I need.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I have a stilldragon housing as well. I love the clamp together assembly and also, not sure if others have it, the stilldragon has a drip notch at the end of the cap where the wire come out. I see other housings are made water tight but, what happens if a small leak occurs between the element and pot and leaks into the housing? How would you know?

As for it not coming with a gasket, it does come with one. The gasket it comes with is not for the wire side. The wire side is supposed to get assembled without a gasket otherwise it would block the drip hole.

Are you sure about that? According to their website at the bottom in bold.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html

Does not include 2" Clamp & Gasket to connect to the ferrule.

Which implies that the gasket is for the wire side.

 

[KennyM]

The Stilldragon kit is nice. Liquid can still drain from the housing with the seal installed.

 

[dmcman73]

The Stilldragon kit is nice. Liquid can still drain from the housing with the seal installed.

It adds a lip at the drip hole.

 

[dmcman73]

Are you sure about that? According to their website at the bottom in bold.
http://stilldragon.com/index.php/element-guard-kit.html



Which implies that the gasket is for the wire side.

I bought it from the vendor on eBay. When I contacted them about it, they stated that the gasket was for the liquid side but it could be used on the wire side if I wanted to. They also added that if I use it on the wires side, to cut the gasket and create a notch where the drip hole is so it won't have a lip on it, the edge of the gasket extends up a bit blocking the drip hole just slightly.

 

[jcav]

I bought it from the vendor on eBay. When I contacted them about it, they stated that the gasket was for the liquid side but it could be used on the wire side if I wanted to. They also added that if I use it on the wires side, to cut the gasket and create a notch where the drip hole is so it won't have a lip on it, the edge of the gasket extends up a bit blocking the drip hole just slightly.

I kinda like that idea of cutting the gasket to create a notch, to line up with the notch on the back plate cover. Might have to use that one when I assemble mine. Thanks for the tip dmcman73!

John

 

[dmcman73]

I kinda like that idea of cutting the gasket to create a notch, to line up with the notch on the back plate cover. Might have to use that one when I assemble mine. Thanks for the tip dmcman73!

John

Might be easier to assemble it uncut then use a xacto knife to trim it away from the notch.

 

[jcav]

That will work too!

 

[SilverZero]

Wiring is essentially finished. Just need to wire the SSRs but I'm waiting on a heatsink. I also put in my old Switchcraft receptacles because I still haven't ordered new ones. Lazy.

I ran a ground run to each XLR connector, which I realize was redundant since pin 1 is already ground, but it's already done.

I decided to hardwire the main power. I found the strain relief lying around so I just went for it. A lot of my crimp-on terminals for 10-gauge wire were slipping off, so I had to triple check them all as I installed them. Getting short runs of 10-gauge is hard, too, like where the contactors run to the outlets. I should have done a better job of just making them long and looping them inside. Also lazy.

At least the zip ties cleaned things up a bit. Hopefully I'll get the hestsink tomorrow and wire up the SSRs. Then I can power up the panel and see what I did wrong.

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[SilverZero]

Still waiting on the couplings for my kettles, but my heatsink, 2 triclamp element adapters, and a 2nd Chugger pump arrived. I installed and wired up the SSRs and I'm pretty sure that means the panel is done.

I also knocked out a simple thermowell for my Vittles Vault fermenter. Chrome-plated copper faucet riser, 20" so I can trim it to my preference. I just clamped the end closed in a bench vise, then I dropped a few drops of flux into the bottom followed by about 1/2" of silver solder. Torched it until it glowed and flowed, it seems to be totally sealed. Fits the BrewPi DS18B20 probe nicely.

I think I'm mostly done spending money on this project, too. That's pretty nice.

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[BrunDog]

Probably not my business, but do you have one wire supplying both SSRs' power sides?

That would induce double current on that one line. Sorry if I am not seeing it right.

-BD

 

[SilverZero]

It's probably hard to see from that angle. Hot leg comes in to the far right terminal and is jumpered to the same terminal on the left relay. (It's kinda coiled up once behind the jumper wire.) Then each relay has its own line down to the power cords for each element.

Because there is also a mechanical relay between each SSR and its corresponding outlet, even if both SSRs are closed (which they will be just by virtue of the settings for each one's PID) current will only flow through one, selected by a three-way switch.

Just like this:

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=13

except I don't have a shunt so the one hot leg just goes straight to the SSRs.

 

[SilverZero]

My couplings arrived yesterday after all. I've got two kettles done and one more waiting for me after dinner. Drilling, dimpling, and soldering is going really well, I'm quite happy! I'll document the 3rd kettle more closely and post again later. These are just dry fits I got some quick pics of earlier.

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