My (Re)Build Thread - Kal Clone-ish

[SilverZero]

In the beginning, there was propane. Then I added an element and an SSR-V controller to my kettle. Some time later came the electric keggle, pump, and a lot of valves.

Finally, the time has come to rebuild my brewery. I'm moving into a new house so I'm going basically from the ground up. I've got three stainless kettles on the way, a shopping list of fittings ready to order, and a box full of components to put into my control panel.

Today, I start planning, measuring . . . and drilling!

Step 1: Unpack, decide on the best layout, and math out the spacing. I ended up going through a few variations before landing on basically the same layout Kal and everybody else uses.

Measuring the horizontal spacing:


I measured in 25mm from each edge to account for the weatherstripping on the inside of the door panel, then marked off 40mm more from the right edge for the door latch. I divided the remaining space into 5 columns at 53mm with 10mm between each column.

Next comes the vertical spacing:


Same 25mm from the top and bottom edges, then divided into 6 rows at 46mm each, except for the third row down which is 54mm (PIDs require a bit more space). 12mm spacing between each row.

The preview:


That fourth PID on the right is just a placeholder until my timer arrives tomorrow. I had three TA4s but I decided to get a TD4 for the boil controller, for the manual mode.

I'm heading out to the shop to mark my centers and start drilling this afternoon.

 

[SilverZero]

Rearranged a bit on the power switch and meter. This feels less cramped on the top, if I can bring myself to put that meter across the middle of two columns. I have problems. Feel free to vote.

 

[SilverZero]

A step bit and a drill press made short work of the 22mm holes for the lamps and switches. I was lucky and found a step bit that maxed out just a shade under 22mm, so I could run it all the way through the panel and know that I wasn't over-drilling. Started it all with a pilot hole, of course.

A second pass with my larger step bit to take it one notch higher (7/8") and it was perfect. I even ran it just up against the next step from both sides of the panel to strip off the burrs and edges. Pretty close to clean and smooth with very little work!



Oh, and one word of warning: Don't get overzealous and start drilling before you've taken out the ground post on the inside of the panel! Mine was right on the edge of the top-left hole. It jammed me up a bit and caused a bit of deformation on the metal, but it'll be easy to straighten out.

No major screw-ups so far. Now to attack the square holes for the PIDs and meter.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Ha im going through the same thing, bought a new house so i sold my Rubbermaid tun, keggle and propane burner.

Got 3 20G Concord kettles and everything i need to build them up, except im going the StrangeBrew route rather than PID.

I too drilled a hole without looking where the post was in my box and it ended up being right on the very edge of the hole. So now i have to be a bit creative when screwing my grounding cable to the post because the nut to hold the switch from the backside rubs up against it, but it should be ok from some test's ive done.

 

[SilverZero]

Ha im going through the same thing, bought a new house so i sold my Rubbermaid tun, keggle and propane burner.

Got 3 20G Concord kettles and everything i need to build them up, except im going the StrangeBrew route rather than PID.

I too drilled a hole without looking where the post was in my box and it ended up being right on the very edge of the hole. So now i have to be a bit creative when screwing my grounding cable to the post because the nut to hold the switch from the backside rubs up against it, but it should be ok from some test's ive done.

Haha, kindred spirits. The worst part is that I knew the post was there, I just got carried away and forgot to cut it off first.

I saw you had moved and were active in the SBE thread. I played with it, got a Pi, got some probes, but I already have all of this gear so I decided to go hardware. I gotta PM you when I'm up in your neck of the woods, I'd love to meet and see your setup when it's done.

 

[SilverZero]

Whew! A long evening of trying to make a square hole out of a round one. For better or for worse, I decided to do the bulk of my drilling with some bi-metal hole saws I had around (thinking I'd be grinding down to the corners). The meter is rectangular, so I did two large-ish holes for that. I found a 44mm hole saw that is just perfect for the PIDs and timer, so I blew those ones out with that.



After hunting around for the right tool, I finally found a pneumatic metal saw that was AWESOME for getting the sides straight and cut to the corners. Basically a small high-speed Sawzall that runs off compressed air. I still cut conservatively and had to spend about an hour of quality time with the hand files, but I got some pretty straight edges out of it in the end.



Couldn't wait to fit the pieces in!



And a rear view:



I still have to file out some space for the tabs that hold the meter in place, so it's not quite fit yet. Easy job for tomorrow, but I'm beat and I need some sleep. It's coming together! Tomorrow I'll get the meter mounted, probably get my timer in the mail and swap it in for the "real" look, and start thinking about the receptacle and connector options for the bottom of the enclosure.

 

[anticrapple]

did you put together a list of the fittings you will need and the prices etc?

I am trying to build mine as well but from a distance. i hoping when i return home to start building but my internet sucks right now so price checking is tough!

 

[SilverZero]

did you put together a list of the fittings you will need and the prices etc?

I am trying to build mine as well but from a distance. i hoping when i return home to start building but my internet sucks right now so price checking is tough!

I've got bits of lists here and there, but I've been collecting pieces over time as well. I'll probably put at least a parts list together sometime. I buy and build in stages. It helps to keep my spending less noticeable.

I'm actually going to have to stop buying for a couple of weeks unless I can sell my old 3-vessel electric setup. I've got it on CL but no bites. Maybe I'll list it here in the buy & sell section.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Haha, kindred spirits. The worst part is that I knew the post was there, I just got carried away and forgot to cut it off first.

I saw you had moved and were active in the SBE thread. I played with it, got a Pi, got some probes, but I already have all of this gear so I decided to go hardware. I gotta PM you when I'm up in your neck of the woods, I'd love to meet and see your setup when it's done.

Ditto, we crash out at the inlaws in Sun River a few times a year, next time Thanksgiving which probably wont make the best time but eventually

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

did you put together a list of the fittings you will need and the prices etc?

I am trying to build mine as well but from a distance. i hoping when i return home to start building but my internet sucks right now so price checking is tough!

FWIW here is the spreadsheet i made for my current EHERMS build using welded fittings you can possibly use for yourself. It has the best prices i could find, i made this so i could make sure i forgot nothing and didnt have to pay for shipping multiple times. I think its pretty well laid out and explains what the fittings are for if its not obvious. There's tabs at the bottom for every vessel, as well as the first tab which contains everything so it was easier for ordering. The misc other tab i never really filled out, but was meant for tubing/camlocks, pumps, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/117zZAo04mOzwOFJNQF4DkmkH5xQZMxgXIBnALkNDu-Q/edit?usp=sharing

 

[joebob296]

FWIW here is the spreadsheet i made for my current EHERMS build using welded fittings you can possibly use for yourself. It has the best prices i could find, i made this so i could make sure i forgot nothing and didnt have to pay for shipping multiple times. I think its pretty well laid out and explains what the fittings are for if its not obvious. There's tabs at the bottom for every vessel, as well as the first tab which contains everything so it was easier for ordering. The misc other tab i never really filled out, but was meant for tubing/camlocks, pumps, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/117zZAo04mOzwOFJNQF4DkmkH5xQZMxgXIBnALkNDu-Q/edit?usp=sharing

That false bottom costs a pretty penny. Surely you could make one for a fraction of that cost and have the same functionality.

 

[SilverZero]

That false bottom costs a pretty penny. Surely you could make one for a fraction of that cost and have the same functionality.

I haven't looked at this price list, but I know I'll be making my own out of a stainless pizza pan for the BK and the MLT. I hate depriving the good folks here of a sale, but some things I have to DIY. (Or... DIM?)

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

That false bottom costs a pretty penny. Surely you could make one for a fraction of that cost and have the same functionality.

One that is precision fit, with secondary side filtering and can withstand 30-40# grain bills and not collapse or get constantly stuck for 10G batches? Not really unfortunately.

Besides, i saved probably $800 in buying cheap concord kettles instead of a premade Spike or Blichmann or something, i figure why not just spend a bit to get the best false bottoms out there?

I had my metal fab friend(who does my welds) price me out at about $80 in metal, not counting his work to actually make one or screwing it up somehow. I'd rather pay the extra $30 if it fails or was sized wrong i could just send it back to Jay lol.

Not to mention with his 20% off Fathers day sale it wasnt really as bad, buying all my fittings from him i saved like $80.

If i wanted to save $$ i would just buy the cheap 12 inch one that sits on the bottom and hope it doesnt lift up during stirring and make my own copper HERMS coil, but not this build, im tired of upgrading later

 

[BrunDog]

I gotta say my NorCal FB is built like a tank. Will definitely outlast the cheaper bayou pot it sits in.

-BD

 

[SilverZero]

Made a few more cuts today for the receptacles. I also got some primer and paint but I'll still need to cut holes on the top plate for the SSRs and heatsinks before I can do that.



I decided to mount the 120v pump receptacles directly to the enclosure. All of the others will be either 24mm XLR females (temp probes) or Switchcraft HPCPR41F connectors, also 24mm. It's nice having all the same hole sizes.

Shown is an HPCP41F in one of the probe holes. The "R" versions are about 60mm across as far as I can tell from pics online. I'll use these for the main power in and the element outs.



I'll be traveling tomorrow for a job interview (wish me luck!) so I probably won't make any more progress until Thursday. If I can track down some heatsinks I'll get the top plate measured and cut, and hopefully primed. I should have it painted and ready to start assembling by the weekend, and by then I should have my Concorde kettles to play with as well.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Made a few more cuts today for the receptacles. I also got some primer and paint but I'll still need to cut holes on the top plate for the SSRs and heatsinks before I can do that.

View attachment 291418

I decided to mount the 120v pump receptacles directly to the enclosure. All of the others will be either 24mm XLR females (temp probes) or Switchcraft HPCPR41F connectors, also 24mm. It's nice having all the same hole sizes.

Shown is an HPCP41F in one of the probe holes. The "R" versions are about 60mm across as far as I can tell from pics online. I'll use these for the main power in and the element outs.

View attachment 291419

I'll be traveling tomorrow for a job interview (wish me luck!) so I probably won't make any more progress until Thursday. If I can track down some heatsinks I'll get the top plate measured and cut, and hopefully primed. I should have it painted and ready to start assembling by the weekend, and by then I should have my Concorde kettles to play with as well.

I bought this
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N419ABM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It fits two SSR's comfortably and at that price its pretty amazing.

IMHO there's no reason to mount your 120V SSR's external but if you wanted to you could just put two of these side by side with a bit of silicone between them.

That said you need to be able to tap your own holes, i just went to Harbor freight and bought their cheap $20 metric tapping set, drilled a few 3/32nd's holes and tapped them and screwed in tiny M3x0.5 bolts to hold my SSR's and the sink in place.

For $28 assuming you dont have the tools yet for a heat sink its a pretty killer deal. Tapping sets are good to have around anyways

Also found this i think that should fit 4...you'd want to measure your SSR's of course but it should have ample room.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UZ9DS64/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[SilverZero]

Nice, I'll check those out. My plan was to harvest a couple of PC heatsinks but I'm flexible. I do have a tap & die set.

 

[lzrdkng14]

Nice, I'll check those out. My plan was to harvest a couple of PC heatsinks but I'm flexible. I do have a tap & die set.

I bought my heatsink off eBay for $16 including shipping. I got lucky with the threads, mine had 4 small threads that for the 2 ssr'a perfectly! The seller had a bunch of heatsinks for sale. Here is another one

 

[augiedoggy]

I gotta say my NorCal FB is built like a tank. Will definitely outlast the cheaper bayou pot it sits in.

-BD

the $40 bayou false bottoms have been redesigned and are now stronger.... just a heads up for those using bayou kettles... I use one and it works and seals well against the rim designed for it.

 

[SilverZero]

My 3 Concorde 80qt kettles arrived today. They're huge! Now to start the arduous process of working up the nerve to put a bunch of holes in them. Any advice for valve placement? I'll be doing the BK and HLT identical (doing an external HERMS solution) and then the mash tun will have the upper valve near the top.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Yes they are quite big pots! I too am dreading putting holes in my pots. I cant decide if i want to drill them out with my step bit, or just buy a greenlee on ebay and then resell it after.

I have something like 9 1/2" holes and 2 big ass holes for my 2" TC Ferrules to get welded on. Seems like a gigantic PITA to drill all those out, if my step bit will even last 9 more holes.

 

[Locklearmj]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/117zZAo04mOzwOFJNQF4DkmkH5xQZMxgXIBnALkNDu-Q/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks for this, it'll definitely help me when I start my build. Any chance you made one for your panel?

 

[SilverZero]

Yes they are quite big pots! I too am dreading putting holes in my pots. I cant decide if i want to drill them out with my step bit, or just buy a greenlee on ebay and then resell it after.

I have something like 9 1/2" holes and 2 big ass holes for my 2" TC Ferrules to get welded on. Seems like a gigantic PITA to drill all those out, if my step bit will even last 9 more holes.

I keep wanting to go TC for my elements. I think I will, but I don't want to weld (because I don't know any welders and I don't trust my novice skills).

 

[gwaugh]

I'm in the build process myself and am going with the same pots. I am thinking I might use TC on the boil kettle for the element, haven't decided for sure yet. If I do I'm planning on silver soldering using the radius fitting from brewhardware. He's got a pretty good how-to video and it doesn't look that hard.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Yea i'd go for the 2" Solder flange setup from Bobby at brewhardware. I only went welded because my buddy can do it.

IMHO you need to be able to remove your element to clean your pots properly, can you imagine trying to lug around a pot with a giant ass box coming out the back and heavy ass 240V cord dragging around everywhere? Seems like a giant PITA, when cleaning sucks already i want to make it as simple as possible to take things apart and soak them and be done with cleaning

You could also do the 1.5" flange but i went with 2" so its a bit easier to get a ripple element in and out. As i understand it with 1.5" TC you have to wiggle the pot and element around to get it out past all the curves in the ripple element.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Thanks for this, it'll definitely help me when I start my build. Any chance you made one for your panel?

No but i can throw one together? But im doing a Strangebrew box, not a PID one.

Also if your looking to save money, wait until a holiday and then check the Vendor forum where they post their sales. I got 20% off pretty much all my fittings and false bottom from Jay @ Norcal and saved like $100.

 

[dmcman73]

Yea i'd go for the 2" Solder flange setup from Bobby at brewhardware. I only went welded because my buddy can do it.

IMHO you need to be able to remove your element to clean your pots properly, can you imagine trying to lug around a pot with a giant ass box coming out the back and heavy ass 240V cord dragging around everywhere? Seems like a giant PITA, when cleaning sucks already i want to make it as simple as possible to take things apart and soak them and be done with cleaning

You could also do the 1.5" flange but i went with 2" so its a bit easier to get a ripple element in and out. As i understand it with 1.5" TC you have to wiggle the pot and element around to get it out past all the curves in the ripple element.

You're right. My current 10Gallon pots are like this and it is a major PIA. I just leave them on the brew stand and drag a high temp hose that I have connected to my faucet and clean them in place.

I'm upgrading to 10 gallon batches and I'm having Spike brewing custom make new kettles and I went with the 2" TC fittings for the elements to avoid doing that and I purchased 2" TC blanks to be able to close off the element holes to clean the kettles without having water spit out of them.

 

[gwaugh]

I was thinking of only making the boil kettle removable. I can't really think of why I would need to ever move my hlt or why it would need too much of a cleaning. Any thoughts/experiences?

 

[dmcman73]

No you wouldn't need to clean out the hlt as often but, at some point after so many brews you should to make sure there is no buildup.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I was thinking of only making the boil kettle removable. I can't really think of why I would need to ever move my hlt or why it would need too much of a cleaning. Any thoughts/experiences?

I mean if your going through the hassle of doing it once, why not just do it twice and never have to worry about it?

I'd think doing one welded/soldered TC and then on the other one welding a nut or going weldless would be more of a PITA as you have to drill different size holes. Or just drill two 2" holes, silver solder that ***** and call it a day!

 

[SilverZero]

I mean if your going through the hassle of doing it once, why not just do it twice and never have to worry about it?

I'd think doing one welded/soldered TC and then on the other one welding a nut or going weldless would be more of a PITA as you have to drill different size holes. Or just drill two 2" holes, silver solder that ***** and call it a day!

After watching Bobby's soldering videos it seems like you have to use special flanged ferrules to make it work, and then you have to use his enclosure to mate it.

As for welding, I get the impression that the cost there is more than I'd expect. Nobody ever discloses how much it cost them to have fittings welded, everybody always says "take some homebrew with you to grease the wheels" or something. How much should it cost to get two TC ferrules welded?

For a boiling environment or an HLT, I don't understand why I'd need to remove the element, especially if I invest in the new all-SS ones. It might be nice but why not just unscrew it once every few batches and clean it? If it can be assembled, it can be disassembled and reassembled, right?

(UPDATE: I definitely did go with 2" TC ferrules and soldered them on myself. Read on below to see how it went. I'm glad I did it.)

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

After watching Bobby's soldering videos it seems like you have to use special flanged ferrules to make it work, and then you have to use his enclosure to mate it.

As for welding, I get the impression that the cost there is more than I'd expect. Nobody ever discloses how much it cost them to have fittings welded, everybody always says "take some homebrew with you to grease the wheels" or something. How much should it cost to get two TC ferrules welded?

For a boiling environment or an HLT, I don't understand why I'd need to remove the element, especially if I invest in the new all-SS ones. It might be nice but why not just unscrew it once every few batches and clean it? If it can be assembled, it can be disassembled and reassembled, right?

Special ferrule yes, but as far as i know it is just a 2" TC fitting. You can buy just the solder ferrule and use any 2" TC fittings or element enclosures. I would double check with him but its not a proprietary thing other than the back end shape to make it easy to solder on. The front is just a standard 2" TC.

I agree its probably not required for the HLT, really the only thing that will be going in it is water, although you will (i assume) be throwing Campden tablets in as well so there is that to clean possibly. The only reason im doing it is because i have a friend who is welding for free.

 

[SilverZero]

International Blue is the new black!

View attachment 1437951081208.jpg

 

[SilverZero]

Paint dried, components mounted.





I'm pretty much at the end of what I can do with this until my terminal strips arrive. I still need to order my Switchcraft and XLR receptacles and a heatsink (I was going to fabricate one myself using an old CPU heatsink and fan, but I'm getting lazy with it plus I'd have to power it). I think I have the rest of what I need for internal components

Maybe I'll be switching over to my kettles for a little while. I think I'll start with a couple of 2" TC ferrules and figure out how to silver solder them. Need to look up these terms like "dimple."

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Paint dried, components mounted.

View attachment 292693

View attachment 292694

I'm pretty much at the end of what I can do with this until my terminal strips arrive. I still need to order my Switchcraft and XLR receptacles and a heatsink (I was going to fabricate one myself using an old CPU heatsink and fan, but I'm getting lazy with it plus I'd have to power it). I think I have the rest of what I need for internal components

Maybe I'll be switching over to my kettles for a little while. I think I'll start with a couple of 2" TC ferrules and figure out how to silver solder them. Need to look up these terms like "dimple."

Dont worry about dimpling, if you get Bobby's 2" TC Ferrule from Brewhardware they are already countoured to fit most pots. They also sell a flat version if your say welding one on the bottom of a kettle that has no curve.

Dimpling a 2" hole would be a huge PITA.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2rsf.htm

Also if its not too late, i wouldnt order Switchcraft cable ends. Their sockets are fine but i ordered 3 Switchcraft female plugs off Amazon and they are all supposed to have a set screw inside that you unscrew to hold the front connector to the shell itself but no matter what screwdriver i used, manual or power i ended up stripping all 3 and sent them back to Amazon as faulty. They are apparently threaded backwards, but i never got any of them to budge. The Neutrik ones are the same price and way better built IMO. Not only that but i found the cable release on the Switchcraft to be of dubious quality, i plugged one into one of my sockets and it took me a good 5 minutes of trying to push this stupid little button down and pulling as hard as i can and wiggling with a pair of pliers before i got it out, i was all but convinced it was stuck and i'd have to buy new sockets.

 

[SilverZero]

Dont worry about dimpling, if you get Bobby's 2" TC Ferrule from Brewhardware they are already countoured to fit most pots. They also sell a flat version if your say welding one on the bottom of a kettle that has no curve.

Dimpling a 2" hole would be a huge PITA.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc2rsf.htm

Also if its not too late, i wouldnt order Switchcraft cable ends. Their sockets are fine but i ordered 3 Switchcraft female plugs off Amazon and they are all supposed to have a set screw inside that you unscrew to hold the front connector to the shell itself but no matter what screwdriver i used, manual or power i ended up stripping all 3 and sent them back to Amazon as faulty. They are apparently threaded backwards, but i never got any of them to budge. The Neutrik ones are the same price and way better built IMO. Not only that but i found the cable release on the Switchcraft to be of dubious quality, i plugged one into one of my sockets and it took me a good 5 minutes of trying to push this stupid little button down and pulling as hard as i can and wiggling with a pair of pliers before i got it out, i was all but convinced it was stuck and i'd have to buy new sockets.

Oh, I see, you're talking about the XLR ends. Yeah, I think I will get Neutrik for those.

As for the soldering flanges, I know I'm taking a bit of a risk with the dimple route but I can't justify spending so much on the special flanged ferrule. I have a pipe reducer that should work, I did a test run today on an old piece of scrap metal. If it fails I can always get the special ferrules and go from there.

 

[SilverZero]

Not much to share yet, it's been a crazy last week or so. I started wiring my panel, and I started in on my kettles. I drilled with a 1-3/4" bi-metal hole saw with a big drill (drill press was walking too much on the pilot hole and the drive belt would slip before it could generate enough torque on the saw teeth). Built a dimpling tool from some scraps, washers, a big bolt, and a 1"-2" pipe reducer.

Here's a preview of the 2" triclamp ferrule dimple I pulled yesterday:

View attachment 1438956606118.jpg

View attachment 1438956617648.jpg

 

[jcav]

Wow SilverZero, you did an amazing job dimpling a hole that size. Looks great and good luck on the solder job!

John

 

[SilverZero]

Today was "learn to silver solder" day. It went pretty well.

My apparatus to hold the 2" ferrule in place (which was probably unnecessary, but I didn't want the fitting to fall out while I was heating the kettle):




First attempt was good, but there was a tiny leak where the dimple wasn't tight enough and the solder didn't fill it. I originally wrapped it on the inside of the dimple in the valley with 3 wraps of the Radnor (Harris) 4% silver solder from AirGas, and heated from the inside and the outside until it flowed. A large-ish blob dripped all the way to the flange of the ferrule and that's where the leak was. This picture is after I went around the perimeter of the joint on the outside wall heating the fitting and just touching the solder wire until it flowed, all the way around for good measure:


The joint is leak-free. Yay! But I did discover a pin-hole leak in the kettle wall. Boo!


I sanded, cleaned, fluxed, and dropped a tiny solder patch on the hole and retested. All good now, filled to the top to test everything under full fluid pressure:




I'll do the other kettle TC element fitting tomorrow, and hopefully my couplings will arrive soon so I can drill and fit for the ball valves. So far so good!

 

[jcav]

Way to go! Good patch job too on that leak. That's really unfortunate. You go through all that trouble, learned a new skill, went for it, did a great job and then oh crap I got a pin hole in the kettle wall.........

You should be proud, what a sense of accomplishment. I don't think I could pull that off on my Sabco kegs, so I am having the 2 inch ferrules welded this weekend.

John