My process and low efficiency .. Help!

[Drk93TT]

I keep having issues BOTH with low OG and low efficency percentage.


On 3rd all grain batch now. All grain is crushed at a well known LHBS. I have been fly sparging all 3 batches.

The last batch I did (which is what I will focus on in this post)was a cream ale that Beersmith says should be OG of 1.049 at 77% Tot Eff.

Water volumes.. 3.060 Strike,1.575 mashout,3.67 sparge. Heres a pic of the stats.


Major Equipment list:
10 gallon igloo MLT with AIH False bottom
Colander strainer for fly sparging
10 gallon boil kettle
8 gallon sparge kettle
Thermapen to monitor temps
All silicone hoses for transfers
Propane burner

Pic of grain bill recipe / beersmith

Brew day PROCESS---->



-Strike water to preheat MLT at 185* (preheated for 10 mins) Stirred and left lid off to let temp stabilize to 168*F Before adding grain slow and stirring.

-I did a 60 min mash at a measured a solid 153 * F right away. Closed up and wrapped with blanket a full 60 mins. At the end of the 60 mins the MLT brew temp was a LOW 135 * F . This is when I added 1.5 gallons of 205*F mashout water.

-When I added the water I tried my best to not dump it in too fast, but it did disturb the grain bed I think as I saw grain floating up in different spots occasionally. (this is the FIRST beer ive used a mashout step on and the WORST measured efficiency yet)

-The temp did in fact rise to 168* after mashout water added in step like beersmith says its supposed to.

-Closed back up for 10 mins at 168* mlt temp

-Checked for converison, confirmed with drop of iodine in husk free wort

-Vorlauf couple pitchers until clear wort and no husky rubbish comin' thru

*** I have NEVER taken gravity readings of any runnings during mash process... Im unsure if this wouldve helped/unsure of process/when to do so ***

-At this point I gravity fed my HLT sparge water slow into my strainer on top of MLT. ( I even monitored temp and adjusted as needed with flame under HLT to maintain temp 166-168 for christ sake) I open both valves SLOW and equally. I sparged for a FULL ~70 mins until all sparge water ran into boil kettle. I keep a good 2 inches of sparge water above the grain bed at all times.

Sparging pic............

-Began boil as usual blah blah 60mins vigorous boil with 3 timed hop additions.

-Chilled wort with my immersion chiller in ~12 mins to 70*F. Wort has lots of chunky hops floating around in it I noticed.. probably normal haha just noticed more because Im brewing outside today.


**********************************

Did not end up with 5 gallons.. more like just under 4.8 in the bucket

AAAAAnnd..

My OG measured was 1.034 (at 70*F w thermapen in sample) My last OG's have been short by 6-8 points this is the shortest so far..... again. Sample tastes pretty overly sweet/prickly at the moment. and kind of bitter....

Even worse my calculated brewhouse efficiency comes in at a whopping 53%... My last couple AG batches like this measured efficiencies of 67% and 68%

Aerated vigorously (shook) and pitched my entire yeast starter (Made the day before sits on a stir plate at least18hrs before pitching)


It has been in a now brand new sealed plastic fermenter with a fermometer on it sitting at ~74 degrees on the gauge.. theres been no bubbles ive seen yet in 24 hrs in the airlock.. although the one side has more water so maybe its a sllloowww bubble. (sidenote: I understand this doesnt mean its not fermenting ... There HAS to be activity and fermentation because I have a carboy right next to it with a beer thats been in it for 10 days fermenting in same room that its fermometer reads 66-68. All my beers in the past have taken off and been bubbling like crazy after 24-36 hours. This one puzzles me.




Am I doing something wrong? I dont get it. Frustrating.... I clean very well and have good sanitation.. Oxi clean free and Star-San. Thanks for reading. Any help greatly appreciated. Hope its a minor change to my process which I thought was pretty good.. Maybe I just need to Batch sparge.. which I haven't done yet surprisingly.. I enjoy Fly sparging , just not the results of this batch.

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

A couple of things

Temp of mash after 1 hour of 135 is way out of whack. You shouldn't be losing more than a degree or two during the hour. I preheat my MLT with 3 gallons of 190 water, dump that water, add the grain and then put in the strike water (about 168, depending on mash temp) and stir like crazy until mash temp it hit. So, I'd try changing the order of your mash in. I dump all my mash water in as fast as I can without spilling it out of the MLT. I usually hold my temps within 2 degrees.

The other most likely suspect is grain crush. My efficiency has not been consistent. As a result, my next purchase is my own grain mill.

 

[Drk93TT]

Ahhh I thought that too. Thanks for pointing that out. I thought the same thing! All the videos Ive seen show people getting temp of MLT after 60mins and their reading is almost identical to reading they took at beginning. The 135 really threw me off. I shoulda took more than 1 quick reading but didnt think anything of it at the time.. and it was 135.

I thought because I added the 205* water and got a reading of 168 like the steps called for it was ok? interesting. I pre heated it for about 10 mins.. but I guess not long enough!?

Local temperature outside during my mash was about 58 degrees.

 

[Drk93TT]

... I have also been reading that some people experience a large temp drop in mash after 60 mins due to using a larger MLT (in my case a 10 gallon MLT and brewing 5 gallon batches.. lots of headspace) and only using 3-4 gallons of strike water. Maybe Ill get a piece of styrofoam and shove it down just above the grain bed to try to preserve the heat / great stuff foam inject into lid ?

 

[ajf]

I also brew 5g batches in a 10g MLT, do a mash out, and fly sparge, and get a consistent 75% brewhouse efficiency.
I don't have a thermopen, and use a 5g cooler as a HLT; but I doubt that makes any difference to efficiency.
I add my strike water to the MLT about 10 degrees hotter than my strike temperature, and wait for it to cool to the required temperature the same as you do, but then I dump all the grain in, and stir like a mad man to eliminate dough balls. I don't think that that would cause efficiency problems, as I used to add the grain slowly with an older system to prevent grain getting under the false bottom, and still got the same efficiency.
When it comes to adding the mash out, I dump all the mash out water in the MLT, and then stir really well before letting it rest and staring the vorlauf. If you tried to add the mash out water slowly do avoid disturbing the grain bed, this is likely to set up channeling which could cause low efficiency. The rest after adding the mash out is sufficient to allow the grain bed to resettle before the vorlauf and sparging.

-a.

 

[Drk93TT]

Thanks for the insight.

Ok, so after the 60 min mash rest.. check temp.. then you dump in the hot mashout water quick/not a slow sprinkle .. and stir it aggressively again.. even rouse up the settled grain... Then let sit for 10 mins closed.. and finally vorlauf like usual.. and then sparge like normal it sounds like ?

Im going to fill my lid with Great stuff foam for giggles I guess too why not.

 

[ajf]

You've got it. I no longer check my temp at the end of the mash, because (when I did) I found that I'd never lost more than 1 or 2 degrees. If you don't stir, the mash out water will be sitting on top of the grain bed, and won't denature the enzymes. By giving it an aggressive stir, you raise the temperature of the entire grain bed, and also knock the sugars out of the grains. When I started doing a mash out, I increased my efficiency by about 10%. There is no problem with rousing the grain bed as you let it settle after the mash out. (I leave it for 15 minutes, but I doubt that makes any noticeable difference.)

-a.

 

[cgrivois]

I cut a pink insultaion foam lid that sits down on top of the mash, then place a towl on top of that in order to reduce space in the cooler. This has seemed to help reduce temp loss during the mash process.

 

[Skarekrough]

A few suggestions...

-pre-heat the MLT. I'll drop two or three gallons of 180 degree water in mine just before I start heating water for the mash. Put the lid on tight and let it sit. For overnight mashes I'll do this an hour before I start to make sure it's fully up to speed before I cover it up for the night.

-Never trust a crush you yourself didn't do. LHBS are wonderful places. I endorse them heartily but they serve hundreds upon thousands of customers. My Coronal Mill and drill serve only me and I know what the pros and cons of my grind are and I can compensate for its shortcomings and capitalize on its strengths.

-When you're having issues with low efficiency and you know you're getting a good grind and your temps are holding then the only other two factors you can look at are time and volume. If you need to add more water to get more sugar out of the grains then don't be afraid to do that; boiling off a half gallon or a whole gallon to get the right pre-boil gravity is not a punishable offense. Conversely if you find you need to add an extra pound of base malt to the tun or even some DME or LME after the boil to bring it up then do so.

Don't lose too much sleep over .06 difference. It's not rocket science; the repercussions of not being exact are going to be "good beer" not a firey crash of a billion dollar probe over Mars. Take good notes of your steps and the values along the way. Try and remove factors you don't have control over. After you are done sit down and look at what's what.

If you can get better efficiency from your technique then great, but don't feel that compensating with materials is "cheating."

 

[Skarekrough]

You've got it. I no longer check my temp at the end of the mash, because (when I did) I found that I'd never lost more than 1 or 2 degrees. If you don't stir, the mash out water will be sitting on top of the grain bed, and won't denature the enzymes. By giving it an aggressive stir, you raise the temperature of the entire grain bed, and also knock the sugars out of the grains. When I started doing a mash out, I increased my efficiency by about 10%. There is no problem with rousing the grain bed as you let it settle after the mash out. (I leave it for 15 minutes, but I doubt that makes any noticeable difference.)

-a.

One of the most amazing things I ever saw in the DIY forum was a guy who took the paddle from an ice cream maker and attached it to the inside lid of an Igloo cooler mash tun.

The constant exposure of water to malt brought his efficiency up to something insane. I think I remember him saying he had to reduce both the base malts and mash time because of it.

 

[Denny]

Try batch sparging. If your efficiency goes up, there's a problem with the design oif your lautering system. But 99% of the time it's the crush.

 

[And1129]

Another thing to consider is the amount of strike and sparge water you use can have a big effect on efficiency. I use BeerSmith too and I love it, but lately i've noticed that the volumes of water it calculates for strike and sparge water don't seem to be optimal; in my experiance, they're on the low side. Lately i've looked at these calculations and have added about half a gallon more water than it tells me and that seems to help. If you're fly-sparging, a lot depends on when you stop the sparge. The optimal grist-water ratio should vary a bit by style and the equipment you're using, but like i said, in my experience the BeerSmith calculations have resulted in mashes that are too thick.

 

[Denny]

Another thing to consider is the amount of strike and sparge water you use can have a big effect on efficiency. I use BeerSmith too and I love it, but lately i've noticed that the volumes of water it calculates for strike and sparge water don't seem to be optimal; in my experiance, they're on the low side. Lately i've looked at these calculations and have added about half a gallon more water than it tells me and that seems to help. If you're fly-sparging, a lot depends on when you stop the sparge. The optimal grist-water ratio should vary a bit by style and the equipment you're using, but like i said, in my experience the BeerSmith calculations have resulted in mashes that are too thick.

Unfortunately, a great tool like Beersmith is often taken as instructions on how to brew rather than as a tool to help you brew the way you want to.

 

[paperairplane]

This may sound silly, but check your thermometer. Could by you're off by a few degrees on all your temps.

Also - just up your grain bill a little - figure you are getting 50-60% - what's an extra pound of base malt $1.50 or less.

 

[Drk93TT]

Thanks for the tips everyone. Much appreciated. I have checked my thermapen in ice water and boiling water. Id say its um.. exactly accurate. Thats why I got it.

Im gonna give the next brew a shot at some tips Ive learned here and hopefully come out with yet again the best brew made so far.

Got an ESB and a cream ale in fermenters now, both arent "perfect" but hopefully the next brew turns out near it.

My next purchase will be a grain mill for sure !