My first All-Grain

[NorsemenRugby58]

I have been home brewing since November of 2007. I started out with extract kits, moved to making my own extract recipes, and using specialty stuff. This July I decided to make the move to AG brewing. I have to say it wasn't too terribly difficult and I think I did well. I have a few questions about some questionable spots in my brew.


#1 I started with a kit, as I did with extract. My mash and sparge temps were on target. My question is this.... During the sparge, I brought my mash tun out to the pot with the mash wort getting up to boil. I drained my sparge into the tun and filled it to about 5 1/4 gallons. This ended up being a blunder. My sparge water was very much clearer than my wort and I didn't want to add much more than a 1/4 gallon because I didn't want a watery tasting beer. We ended up boiling down to 4 1/4 gallons of wort. So my question is this... is it OK to add more sparge water? (I didn't drain even close to all the sparge) and then boil down to around 5gal?

#2 My second question has to do with yeast starting and quick turnaround. I used a dry yeast. Is it worth it to start it? I was gonna try (never have before) but ran into time constraints with the boil.

#3 My third question has to do with the effects of secondary fermentation. What is its purpose? I've never had any fermentation visually take place in secondary. Through reading here I see that it has to do with settling yeast and stuff but I don't really follow it so could someone explain in more plain terms?


-Thanks.

 

[popester]

2) Just rehydrate dry yeast. The manufacturers don't suggest creating a starter.
3) Secondary fermentation doesn't do any fermentation, it should be called 'secondary clearing tank.' The purpose is to get your beer off the trub of the primary fermentation and help clear it. Some folks don't do secondary, some do.

 

[Bobby_M]

All grain recipes take into account that you are mixing sweet first runnings with diluted sparge runnings. Not sparging is a big hit in efficiency and somewhat a waste of money. You should focus on what your preboil volume needs to be and sparge to reach it. Probably 6.5 gallons.

 

[golfguy819]

it is to my understanding that your sparge will be a little clearer because all your essentially doing is rinsing the grain for sugar. if i'm wrong, please feel free to correct me. some people do not use a secondary and allow the yeast to "clean up" their beer. another advantage of not using a secondary is less risk contaminating your beer. if your secondary isn't properly sanitized, you run the risk of contamination.

 

[Pangea]

All grain recipes take into account that you are mixing sweet first runnings with diluted sparge runnings. Not sparging is a big hit in efficiency and somewhat a waste of money. You should focus on what your preboil volume needs to be and sparge to reach it. Probably 6.5 gallons.

+1 and/or focus on your pre-boil gravity rather than just volume. If you would have measured pre-boil gravity or volume, you would have seen that you were way to concentrated still - and not even close to having a watered down beer.

 

[cd2448]

It's a sliding scale each time you run water off the grain - so the first runnings from the mash will take a lot of the sugars (and i think the lion's share of the color/body - might be wrong there). If you do 2 sparges - the second sparge has less sugars than the first, but it's still extracing. I think you'd need to test the run off to know for sure when you have all the available sugar. There's a danger of over-sparging too - check this site for details of that.

I've done AG for about 9 mths now but for various reasons it's only been 5 batches. One thing I have to improve (it might apply to you too): I need to seriously take better control of volumes, taking measurements etc. I'd recommend getting some brew software as a starting point and also finding out how much volume you need (i think 6.5 gallons is a good volume for a vigorous 60min boil/5 gallon batch) to get 5 or 5.5 gallons into your fermentor. Controlling volume more precisely will make the whole process more predictable: you can accurately measure your efficiency and "dial in" you equipment and process.

 

[cd2448]

With regard to yeast - I've gone with dry yeast so far simply because it's easier - I don't have to plan ahead (I had to cancel a couple of brew sessions last minute coz of the weather so I was wary of that).

If you have liquid yeast and want to make a starter - you need to do it 24-36hrs before (assuming 5gallon batch). I would research a bit on this site, it might be better to do this even earlier - specially for a lager or a big beer.

 

[mithion]

You don't need a starter for lower gravity beers even with liquid yeast. The wyeast especially since it comes in smack pack which is essentially a small starter.

 

[NorsemenRugby58]

Thanks for the replies. I felt that I couldn't boil much more over 5 1/4 gallons of wort because I thought the beer would be watered down. If simply adding volume and boiling down is the answer I can't wait to fire up the kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yup, that's how all grain brewing works. You collect enough wort so that by the time the 60 minute boil is done, you've concentrated the sugar to your finished batch size. Since typical boiloff rate is 1.5 gallons per hour (YMMV), you need about 6.5 gallons to start with.

Think of it this way, what leaves more sugar - start with 6.5 gallons of mash runoff and boil down to 5 or start with 5, boil down to 4, then top up with water? Even the latter sparge runnings have more sugar than water.

 

[cd2448]

Thanks for the replies. I felt that I couldn't boil much more over 5 1/4 gallons of wort because I thought the beer would be watered down. If simply adding volume and boiling down is the answer I can't wait to fire up the kettle.

Beersmith or similar will help you with these volumes, and tell you what sparge amounts to use. If you are in a situation where you don't have 6.5 gallons at the start of the boil, top it off to that volume. You will boil it back down near 5.25 anyway, it means you have the correct volume into the fermentor.

Now - if you have an upper limit on the volume you can boil because of brew pot size - that's tricky. I have an 8gallon brewpot and usually start around 6.75 - I have to watch very carefully to avoid boil overs at the start of the boil.

 

[beerkrump]

+1 and/or focus on your pre-boil gravity rather than just volume. If you would have measured pre-boil gravity or volume, you would have seen that you were way to concentrated still - and not even close to having a watered down beer.

How do you know this? His efficiency could have been horrible.

Go with BobbyM's advice shoot for volume and, if the recipe is sound, the gravity will be there. He has a link in his signature that explains AG really well.

My method is pretty laid back...

The thickness of my mash is between 1.25 and 1.33 qt/lb. My target volume is 6.5 gallons. If I get 1.5 gallons out of my first runnings(no mash out), I do two sparges of 2.5 gallons. It's that easy. I get between 70% and 80% efficiency doing this.

Concerning dry yeast, popester got it. Just rehydrate in some cooled, boiled water and pitch.

I use a secondary if I want to add something to the beer during fermentation, i.e. dry hopping, oak aging. Otherwise, I leave it in the primary.

What were you brewing? What was your OG after the boil? Some of my lighter colored beers, specifically cream ales, had very light colored runnings from the mash tun and darkened to their end color during the boil.

 

[s1080]

If I get 1.5 gallons out of my first runnings(no mash out), I do two sparges of 2.5 gallons. It's that easy. I get between 70% and 80% efficiency doing this.

+1. This was the biggest hump for me when I started. My efficiency would tank because I would start with 5 gal collect 3.5 then sparge with 3 gal to get 6.5. (its humid in charleston so my boil goes a gallon an hour) My efficiency would be in the 60's. Now I start with 3. Collect 1.5 and do two more sparges to get the correct volume and am consistantly in the high 70's to low 80's just by batch sparging.

You can think of sparging also like making tea. When you put tea bags in a pot of water the darker the tea the more tea in "solution". Thats all a mash tun is, a giant tea bag and its our job to get every bit of sugar from it. So the only true way to water down a beer is by adding water. I said all that to say this you would have been fine taking the rest of your second running without making a watery beer. Although as beerkrump mentioned what kind of beer were you making? hope this helps.

 

[MarsColonist]

Sounds like everyone answering so far does batch sparge.... Just curious, but how long does this take on a 5 gallon batch? Ive been fly sparging for the last year and typically get above 80% efficiency... I collect about 6.75 gals in 45 minutes...

As an aside, check your Ca levels in the your water. I brewed all grain for about 6 months with really yeasty pale beers that never cleared, even with finings. Turns out I had little to no calcium. Your extract had all the right minerals, but your water during all grain may not. Just saying.

Sorry I didnt answer your questions.

 

[beerkrump]

It takes me about the same amount of time. I never really timed it, but my typical brew session is between 4 to 5 hours from flame on to pitching yeast.

 

[NorsemenRugby58]

well, I dunno about efficiency, I used a recipe and AG kit from seven bridges organic homebrew supplies. I'm probably ok with this brew, just might be a little stronger because the gravity was off because I didnt use enough sparge... and I wont have the volume I wanted. All my questions got answered and then some however... thanks!