My element won't reach a boil

[McKnuckle]

Just received a Hot Rod from BrewHardware and set it up today for a heating test. Nice product for sure. I plan to use it with small batches - boiling 2 or 3 gallons at a time.

So I started with 3 gallons @ 68F
The element is 1500W LWD 120V
The circuit is 15A with minimal draw from other devices

The element heated the water from 68F to 160 in 40 minutes. That was reasonable; so far so good. Continued heating with boiling as the next target. It rose at a slower rate than before, but did progress. However, over an hour later (100+ minutes total), it's just getting stuck at around 202F, slowly evaporating but not actually boiling.

I used the spreadsheet that's out there, and this isn't supposed to happen; in fact there are anecdotal reports from other brewers that I Googled in advance of selecting the element. Here's the power calc spreadsheet:
http://gnipsel.com/beer/software/calculators/electric-heat.xls

Anybody have a clue what might be wrong?

 

[EuBrew]

Since you say 15A breaker I'm assuming this is a 2000 watt element?

I'm not well versed on the hot rod but first thing you want to so is check your voltage at the source powering your element to see what power you're working with 120v 105v etc. Another missing piece of info is is this a 120 or 240v breaker?

Edit: missed the 1500 watt. Still need to know voltage of lines powering element

 

[cyanmonkey]

Another missing piece of info is is this a 120 or 240v breaker?

Yes, I'd check to see what voltage it's designed for. I've been burned by this before.

 

[McKnuckle]

1500W element, 120V. I have not measured actual voltage at the outlet. Even with 100V or something, the calculator doesn't come close to what I'm experiencing.

Edit: measured 118V at the outlet. Only other variable is an inline GFI extension cord. But that measures the same.

 

[stlbeer]

Is your pot insulated? Was a lid on? Without these you will have loss of efficiency. That might explain part of the difference you see.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

What size and material is your kettle?

 

[madscientist451]

Is the test being done indoors?
A small burner on an electric range uses about 1200 watts, the large burners can go up to 2500 watts.
You just need a little more wattage to boil your test amount.
What is the size of the pot? Perhaps a smaller pot would work better.

 

[McKnuckle]

8 gallon stainless steel MoreBeer pot in a 75F room, uninsulated, cover on partially (blocked by heat stick).

I didn't think it was that critical to make things perfect, meaning that the power would be so marginal. I had read nothing in my preparation for this that caused me worry.

I'm going to try 2 gallons in a 6 gallon aluminum kettle...

 

[dlaramie08]

Insulating the pot makes all the difference. Wrap a towel around it and try again to see the difference.

 

[Wynne-R]

You can’t depend on those spreadsheets. I haven’t seen one yet that did a good job with heat loss. I don’t find them useful at all.

Heat loss is proportional to temperature difference. At room temperature everything is at equilibrium and the temperature loss is zero. At boiling the heat loss is whatever it is, apparently more than 1500w in your case. In between is in between. Saw that coming, didn’t you?

So at room temperature your efficiency is high and most of your 1500w goes to heat the wort. At some point in the middle, let’s say your heat loss is 1000w, that leaves 500w to heat the wort. Your temperature increase per minute will be 1/3 of what it was when you first plugged the thing in.

If you’re underpowered you will reach a point where you are at equilibrium, the temperature increase is zero. It’s hard for me to imagine that happens with a small batch at 1500w though you do have a big pot.

I’d be interested to know what the applied voltage is, as close to the actual load as you can get. Check your circuit for heat. Unplug it and check the cords, splices, switches etc. Anything that’s hot is a problem.

In my experience, insulating the sides doesn’t do much. I use induction plates and two layers of R-13 around the kettle, lid off, didn’t significantly change the boil time. It doesn’t do much good to insulate the walls if you don’t have a roof.

 

[McKnuckle]

You can’t depend on those spreadsheets. I haven’t seen one yet that did a good job with heat loss. I don’t find them useful at all.

Thank you for the info, depressing though it may be. After all the reading I've done over the past week to plan this setup, I'm severely disappointed in its actual performance. I can't sense any lost heat in the electric part of the system; the only thing slightly warm to the touch is the GFCI box. Not much I can do about that in any case.

I was able to get 2.25 gallons boiling gently in the aluminum pot with a towel doubled-over and wrapped around the circumference. It took 40 minutes.

Then I tried 3 gallons in the SS pot with the towel and a yoga mat that also covered most of the lid area (which itself was propped up), and hit a slight boil in one hour. However, as soon as I opened the casement window 2' overhead to vent the steam, the temp in the pot dropped 5 degrees and the boil died.

This sucks. Keep in mind the space is a basement furnace room that's at 75F in the dead of winter.

I was planning to work on 1.5 gallon batches with this setup, which requires that I boil with about 2.15 gallons most of the time. I'm going to get some of this Reflectix stuff and fashion a jacket for the smaller pot, as well as a lid with a cutout for the heat stick. I think this reality check should be in the proverbial manual somewhere... I didn't see it coming!

 

[kombat]

Keep in mind that you cannot/should not leave the lid on during the boil. One of the main purposes of doing the boil at all is to drive off DMS precursors, and leaving the lid on simply allows them to condense and drip back into the wort, defeating the purpose. You need to find a solution that allows you to boil indefinitely with the lid off.

What about putting the pot (with the heatstick) on a hot plate plugged into an outlet on another circuit breaker? The combination of the two heat sources should be more than enough to achieve a boil, no?

 

[McKnuckle]

Keep in mind that you cannot/should not leave the lid on during the boil.

Thanks, yes I'm very aware of that... I cover it only to achieve the boil, not while maintaining it. But if I can't maintain it uncovered, I'm hosed.

Thing is, I only have one circuit in the room I'm working in, so unless I enlist an electrician's help I am limited to one heat source. I have several other brewing solutions, including my kitchen stove and propane burners for outside. But this little electric kit is for a specific purpose - to let me brew in my workshop, indoors, without A) Freezing my arse off; or B) Needing to wait til my family is away. They don't like the smell so I have to use kitchen time wisely.

 

[bbohanon]

I have a HotRod and have used it quite a bit for 5 gallon and below batches. It will bring and hold up to 6 gallons of wort to a rolling boil with this element plugged into a 15-20A GFCI outlet in my kitchen(preferably 20a, but I have used it ok with 15amp): https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element2000.htm

I DO use the stove burner to help it come up to temp quicker, however I have used it with no stove burner help and it works as expected. It even boils the wort better than a e-stove does. With using this along with a stove burner, once its starting to break boil-wise, I kill the stove and the HRod holds the boil perfectly.

Not sure about the 1500w elements...maybe up your element to the one I linked if you have access to a 15-20amp GFCI outlet. Others use this setup with the Hot Rod and have zero issues with doing 5 gallon batches with it.

As for my brewpot, I use a 8 gallon SS pot for these batches..essentially one of the freebies you can pick up from NBrewer. its a cheap pot. I use no insulation or towels to help insulate it, I drop in the HRod and let it rip. No cover or anything involved to help hold heat. It just works.

Not sure what might be going on, but with a 3 gallon batch, I would assume 1500watt would work ok if you have the proper outlet amps, proper wiring between the wall and element, etc.
As a previous poster mentioned, you could use an induction hot plate in place of an e-stove to help the HotRod bring the wort to boil. Might be worth looking into if you wanting to brew in the workshop you mentioned rather than the kitchen. Between the 2, it should work great even for larger batches. You would need to distribute the power between the HRod and Burner across multiple circuits to keep the breaker from tripping. I think the Megapots are induction friendly pots as well.

A 1300Watt induction burner for about $80 is here: http://www.staples.com/Big-Boss-914...kpid=1372851&gclid=CPCg-Y-z6cMCFeXm7Aod9UkAWQ

 

[augiedoggy]

I would measure the resistance of your element and report back with your findings....

 

[McKnuckle]

Thanks for the add'l comments and links. I did not get the 2000W element from Brew Hardware simply because I only have a 15A circuit in the shop, and didn't want to immediately start racking up electrician bills. I realize it's an upgrade option, especially if I can get a 20A circuit added to the room. I didn't think it would work with the 15A circuit though. (2000W / 118V = 16.9A)

As for resistance between the terminals of my element, I believe it's 9.8 ohms (I tested it earlier). I found a chart that noted this as being about right.

I went out and got some R3 aluminum backed insulation, the kind meant for wrapping duct work. I doubled it up and made a jacket for the kettle, then made a lid that covers the entire top and leaves a notch for the Hot Rod. It brought 2.14 gallons from 88F to boiling in 33 minutes, which is definitely fine! I then removed the lid, and the boil died down to a gentle roll, mostly over the element, but it should be adequate for brewing. I have an evaporation test underway now so I'll be able to dial things in when I brew.

2.14 gallons is two completely full plastic water jugs. It's about what I need to do a 1.5 gallon batch (into the fermenter), which suffices to keep me entertained until this stupid winter is over!