My BeerGunned beer tastes very different comparing to the keg

[Smellyglove]

I've beergunned two beers. First attempt was not very good, lots of foam etc, the classic.

I did some tweaks for the second time I used it. Keeping the keg as cool as possible (close to freezing) and the beer-line inside the fridge, just 20cm line + the beergun itself poking outside the fridge. Purge for five seconds, fill, and purge the top for five seconds, the immideately cap.

The second batch has been stored for a week, and comparing to the keg its two quite different beers. More "gummy" (it's not as crisp), more malty, big difference in carbonation, and lack of hop taste as well as aroma.

The bottles which i filled has been stored with star-san in them for a month. Placed them upside down to empty and dry two hours prior to filling. Then they were put in a freezer to cool down.

I fill the bottle until it pours over. I'm under the impression that I get no more foam then others.

Do you guys get air/gas in the beer-line to the Beergun? I can see a stream of bubbles in the beerline towards the beergun. When I just pour my self a normal beer there is no gas/air in the beerline. I carb at 1.5bar @ 2C, and beergun it at approx 0.2 bar.

All help is very appreciated as I do not know what I must be doing wrong.

 

[acidrain]

Not sure about the taste difference. I just bottles from the keg this past weekend, so I'll get a chance to see if my taste is different in a couple of weeks.

As for your beergun and bubbles, I don't change the keg pressure. Is that what you meant when you said 1.5 bar and .2 bar?

The trick is to purge/pressurize the bottle to just less than serving pressure, then fill with beer allowing the extra gas pressure to bleed off through the adjustable pressure relief valve. This keeps the gas dissolved in the beer under pressure,
Make sense?

 

[Smellyglove]

Not sure about the taste difference. I just bottles from the keg this past weekend, so I'll get a chance to see if my taste is different in a couple of weeks.

As for your beergun and bubbles, I don't change the keg pressure. Is that what you meant when you said 1.5 bar and .2 bar?

The trick is to purge/pressurize the bottle to just less than serving pressure, then fill with beer allowing the extra gas pressure to bleed off through the adjustable pressure relief valve. This keeps the gas dissolved in the beer under pressure,
Make sense?

Do you beergun your beer at normal serving pressure? I've read everywhere that people turn down the pressure and bleed off the pressure which is already in the keg or else it will end up with a lot of foam when filling.

I actually didn't understand what you meant..

 

[mswebb]

A "beer gun" is not the same as a counter-pressure filler. A "beer gun" fills into a atmospheric pressure container with no seal; a counter-pressure filler seals the bottle and pressurizes. A counter-pressure filler is the optimal product for filling. A "beer gun" works but is subject to potential carbonation loss (albeit minimal). Your beer may be just on the line of required CO2 and any losses become apparent. When working with a "beer gun" consider upping the volume of CO2 in suspension to compensate for the slight loss.

 

[Smellyglove]

It's already slightly overcarbed in the keg. It's about 3,7 Co2 volumes. But the difference in the bottle is quite big. Two friends of mine described it as it being a bit undercarbed.

 

[Rivenin]

Had that problem with a batch my father in law helped with...
he purged just a touch in the beginning and didn't purge really at the end to top the bottle off with CO2.
Although, when i've done it i've never really had any issues so far to note.
With that being said, when i do it, i cap on foam via just hitting the trigger with the tip out of the beer.
It works for me, not saying it'll work for you, but i haven't had an issue and i've had some beers in bottles for 3-4 months.

 

[acidrain]

A "beer gun" is not the same as a counter-pressure filler. A "beer gun" fills into a atmospheric pressure container with no seal; a counter-pressure filler seals the bottle and pressurizes. A counter-pressure filler is the optimal product for filling. A "beer gun" works but is subject to potential carbonation loss (albeit minimal). Your beer may be just on the line of required CO2 and any losses become apparent. When working with a "beer gun" consider upping the volume of CO2 in suspension to compensate for the slight loss.

Oops, my bad... mine is a home-made counter pressure filler. Cost about $25 to build and uses a pressure relief valve to bleed off the Co2 in the bottle while filling.
Other than that, I've also just poured beer directly into the bottle or growler... also at serving pressure.
Turning down the serving pressure will always lead to foam in the beer line. It's unavoidable since the pressure is no longer there to keep in dissolved Co2 in the beer.

 

[Smellyglove]

I just don't get where I'm doing wrong. Next time I'll try more pressure. A beer carbed to 3.7 volumes shouldn't taste undercarbed.

 

[acidrain]

Are you filling all the way to the cap?
Are you having foam while filling?
If you fill to the cap, there is less room for the gas to equalize, which is good.
If you are having foam, you are loosing considerable Co2, which is bad.
In order to get a good pour from a beer gun, you will need to fill with no foam, and almost all the way to the cap.
If that doesn't work, I would try filling under pressure.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm having some foam. No more than other which claim good results are having. But then again, I don't know what they reckon is a good result.
Filling until the beer, not foam, poors over the top, then cap asap.

Like I said, a 3.7 volume CO2 kegged beer should not be experienced as undercarbed. I see a stream of bubbles in the beerline. Next time I'll not drop the pressure as much in the keg and see if that helps. I can't believe it's possible to fill a bottle with the BG without foam, at all. If it is I still have many tries before me.

 

[biertourist]

All the taste descriptors you're giving can be reasonably attributed to a drop in CO2 levels, but I think you already knew that.

The keys to preventing foaming are to make the beer, beer gun and tubing, and bottles all the same temperature and to drop the CO2 pressure on the keg while bottling. -Freezing the bottles in the freezer can actually make the beer foam even more than keeping them warm at room temperature -now you've got an equally large temp diff between the beer and the bottle AND the frost that forms when you take them out of the freezer creates tons of nucleation sites as the first bit of beer hits the bottle.

Process:

1. Place beer gun and bottles in fridge with the beer keg for 30 min before bottling
2. Drop the keg pressure down to 4-5 PSI and be sure to vent the keg a couple of times
3. Tilt the beer bottle at an angle and put the beer gun wand into the bottom corner of the bottle, purge, then begin filling with a quick "all the way on/ all the way off" motion

For highly carbonated beer styles, you're honestly probably better off bottle conditioning than bottling from a keg via the beer gun; if you REALLY want to bottle from a keg with high CO2 levels then get more beer line for the liquid side leading up to the beer gun to decrease fobbing.


Adam

 

[Smellyglove]

All the taste descriptors you're giving can be reasonably attributed to a drop in CO2 levels, but I think you already knew that.

The keys to preventing foaming are to make the beer, beer gun and tubing, and bottles all the same temperature and to drop the CO2 pressure on the keg while bottling. -Freezing the bottles in the freezer can actually make the beer foam even more than keeping them warm at room temperature -now you've got an equally large temp diff between the beer and the bottle AND the frost that forms when you take them out of the freezer creates tons of nucleation sites as the first bit of beer hits the bottle.

Process:

1. Place beer gun and bottles in fridge with the beer keg for 30 min before bottling
2. Drop the keg pressure down to 4-5 PSI and be sure to vent the keg a couple of times
3. Tilt the beer bottle at an angle and put the beer gun wand into the bottom corner of the bottle, purge, then begin filling with a quick "all the way on/ all the way off" motion

For highly carbonated beer styles, you're honestly probably better off bottle conditioning than bottling from a keg via the beer gun; if you REALLY want to bottle from a keg with high CO2 levels then get more beer line for the liquid side leading up to the beer gun to decrease fobbing.


Adam

I've already swapped the 3/8" beergun line to a 9ft 3/16" with john guests.

 

[Smellyglove]

I just tried again. Putting the beergun up for sale.

Would a counterpressure-filler be better? Or could I try again with a recicilously long beerline? It seems that the moment I drop pressure in the keg the beer dissapates co2, which goes into the beerline. I've dropped the pressure to 0, just to slightly pressurize it again for the filling. Would it work with an incredibly long beerline so I wouldn't have to drop the pressure? Like 30 ft or something?

 

[Rivenin]

in theory that would work, but that would suck to sanitize.
I'm not sure why you're having that much of an issue though, you just empty the keg of CO2, or mostly gone, get the pressure down to 3-4 PSI and for the first little bit until it stops foaming, fill up a glass to drink while you're filling the rest.
Make sure the bottles are frozen or VERY cold and fill, top with CO2 or blast it so it foams up just a touch and cap.
Where do you live? maybe someone could come over and help out somehow? or see what is happening?

 

[acidrain]

Why is a counter-pressure gun hard to sanitize?
Run some hot cleaner through it and then sanitizer. Done.

Don't knock what you haven't tried.
I bottled 2 cases of bombers a while back. Popped one last night and it was exactly the same taste and carbonation as the keg.

 

[SeeMont]

Are the bottles you are filling dry inside. If they are you are getting surface friction and this can cause foaming, just like pouring beer into a dry glass. I soak my bottles in a chilled bucket of Star San, shake them out and then fill on top of a little foam. no problem.

 

[BigPerm]

The second batch has been stored for a week, and comparing to the keg its two quite different beers. More "gummy" (it's not as crisp), more malty, big difference in carbonation, and lack of hop taste as well as aroma.

The bottles which i filled has been stored with star-san in them for a month. Placed them upside down to empty and dry two hours prior to filling. Then they were put in a freezer to cool down.

I'm wondering if a lot of your problems are based on your sanitation method. This is dependent (a little) on your source water, but my starsan solutions get very turbulent and viscous after a day or two. Enough so that my thief (which is soaking in there) gets an opaque film on it that takes several rinses to get off. If you've got this on the inside of your bottles (i'll bet you do), this could drive co2 out of solution, which could drive off your hop aromas and really screw with the texture.

Are the bottles you are filling dry inside. If they are you are getting surface friction and this can cause foaming, just like pouring beer into a dry glass. I soak my bottles in a chilled bucket of Star San, shake them out and then fill on top of a little foam. no problem.

Try this, and report back. I've never used a beer gun, so I don't have direct experience, but enough people love them that it can't be as bad as you describe.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'll try both of those suggestions. Thanks again.

 

[biertourist]

Why is a counter-pressure gun hard to sanitize?
Run some hot cleaner through it and then sanitizer. Done.

Yep, the easiest thing in the world. Just put some sanitizer in your keg, or a home depot pressure sprayer with a corney keg post screwed onto it, and run it through the beer gun. (and your tap lines)


Fully expect the OP to realize that the flavor differences aren't coming from his Beer Gun after he sells his Beer Gun; but I can only ever seem to learn the hard way, myself, so I can't say too much...


Adam

 

[Smellyglove]

I'll give the beergun some more tries. I know it's not the beergun, but my technique. It's a question about how many tries I want to give it. But then again, if I'd go out and get a CPF I bet I'd have to go through the same annoyance over again.

 

[Gameface]

I'm wondering if a lot of your problems are based on your sanitation method. This is dependent (a little) on your source water, but my starsan solutions get very turbulent and viscous after a day or two. Enough so that my thief (which is soaking in there) gets an opaque film on it that takes several rinses to get off. If you've got this on the inside of your bottles (i'll bet you do), this could drive co2 out of solution, which could drive off your hop aromas and really screw with the texture.



Try this, and report back. I've never used a beer gun, so I don't have direct experience, but enough people love them that it can't be as bad as you describe.

This is what I was thinking as well when I read that he left star san solution in the bottles for a month. I use a growler with star san solution in the bottom for the other end of my blow off tube and it leaves a thick smelly film in the growler. Definitely wouldn't want to empty that out and fill with beer I intended to drink.