My beer tastes plain and grainy after every fermentation.

[PilotBMP]

It seems that after every fermentation I have a cloudy, blan and grainy tasting beer. I ferment in a fermentation chamber that is a converted freezer. I have a temp controller so I can keep my temps within +/- .1 degree.
During fermentation anytime I open the chamber it burns my nose with alcohol fumes and strong floral scents. Does the fact that I have no way to circulate air through there matter since I have an airlock on?
I am religious about sanitation but do not bleach the chamber after EVERY session (I feel the fermentation lock does its job?).

So to recap:

• Very sanitary
• Fermentation chamber with strong scents
• Beer ending up cloudy, blan and grainy

Could all these things be tied together and what is causing it?

Thanks all,
Ben
ManShed Brewhaus

 

[jakenbacon]

Are you using the same yeast each time? Yeast makes all the difference in the world...

 

[EuBrew]

process of elimination so bear with me. Are you measuring ambient or actually monitoring through a thermowell? Circulation may help reduce temp variance but I doubt if the grainy taste comes from ferm temps anyway. Grainy I would tend to associate with a preboil issue.

Do you monitor SG pre/post/during?
All grain or other process?
If all grain what's your mash temp?
How long in fermenter, are you primary only or do you secondary (not advocating for either whatever works for you)?

 

[PilotBMP]

Not all the time. For instance, last batch I made I used Irish Ale yeast for my Red Ale, this time I used California Ale for my Pale Ale. I even have been fermenting around 66-68 degrees so I get a thinner more dry finish (mash was at 148 degrees). So I was hoping for less over the full bodied floral finish I keep getting.

My first thought always comes to OMG it's infected but in the case of the Red, it turned out fine. Do you think cold crashing would help and if so when do I do that (before bottling or after?)

Thanks for the reply,
Ben
ManShed Brewhaus

 

[Zepth]

I think that "burn" you feel coming out of the chamber is more of your body's way of telling you CO2 overload. It's all in the chamber then when you open the lid the air/CO2 mix goes off the charts. Nothing unusual there. Anyways...

If you're brewing with grains I'd suspect incomplete conversion. Do you do an iodine test? I had faith that it would be complete when using an unusual quantity of adjuncts and skipped it, it was a starchy mess.

Is cloudy chill haze or suspended yeast? I've noticed quite a difference in flavour coming from the latter, often undesirable. A cold crash (if not doing so already) can take care of a lot of it. Otherwise it may be related to how fast you can cool the batch.

Since these seem to be recurring problems it must be a continuing issue or process that is causing it.

 

[PilotBMP]

Thanks EuBrew,
I hope my last reply helped a little but if not I will answer your ?'s.

Temp is ambient in the chamber.
Gravity is monitored though out and within +/- .005
All grain
Lately I've been mashing at 148 (see previous reply for explanation)
Primary until the FG hits what I need (7-10 days) typically do not secondary unless need to add something

Zepth,
Thanks for the CO2 comment (makes me feel better).
Suspended yeast in answer to your question...I posted a cold crash question in my last reply so maybe you can weigh in on your opinion.

Thanks all,
Ben
ManShed Brewhaus

 

[falkaveli]

Other questions to help:

1) How long in primary? Use a secondary?
2) Bottle or keg carbonate?

 

[JonM]

What's your water like? "Dull, blah, etc" are terms sometimes used to describe beers with a wonky mash pH.

 

[PilotBMP]

I used bottled spring water from Wal-Mart (1 gallon jugs)

 

[falkaveli]

Cold crashing will help. If you are bottle carbonating, I wouldn't bother with cold crashing until after the bottles are carbonated (~2 weeks in warmer temps). The small volume in bottles allow for a quick cold crash.

It may not be related, but perhaps a bit longer in primary may help...may clear up some off flavors. Then again, if you're getting the same flavor from all your yeast strains...probably a mash issue.

A quick fix for a conversion issue is a 90 minute mash. Gives you time to have another beer also!

One more question...BIAB, batch, or fly sparge?

 

[EuBrew]

Leave it in primary for 3 weeks, possibly longer depending on dry hop schedules. Cold crash before you bottle or keg.

 

[biertourist]

What's your water like? "Dull, blah, etc" are terms sometimes used to describe beers with a wonky mash pH.

Yep. I was about to say the same.


Dull can be a lack of ions in your water (although I'm betting unlikely in Ohio) but old ingredients can do the same. As malt gets older it just gets dull and boring.

Grainy I'd normally also want to look at your water and also your sparge temps / process.

The problem here is that Dull is often very soft, mineral-free water and grainy is often from really hard water with a high pH as higher pH and temperature = increased risk of extracting grainy tannins from the malt husk.

Also explain your mill gap setting. Setting a really tight mill gap and shreading husks also increases the rate of husk tannin extraction.



Adam

 

[JonM]

I used bottled spring water from Wal-Mart (1 gallon jugs)

If you're not measuring pH, and if you're not adding acid to a light grain bill, there's a good chance your mash pH is off, resulting in dull, plain flavor.

Check this out: it gives some good basics for mineral additions and acidification.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

 

[falkaveli]

What's your water like? "Dull, blah, etc" are terms sometimes used to describe beers with a wonky mash pH.

Great call on the water.

Looks like you're brewing hop forward beers with soft water. Harden that water up a bit and you'll have a crisper beer. It made a world of difference for my IPAs.

Check out https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

 

[bacgabe]

What's your water like? "Dull, blah, etc" are terms sometimes used to describe beers with a wonky mash pH.

I second the idea that the culprit could be mash PH. It is one of those things where you seem to be doing everything right, yet consistently end up with a subpar final product (like grainy flavors). One way to experiment whether this is the case is to use distilled water for a batch instead of spring water, and just add a teaspoon of calcium chloride to ensure healthy yeast growth and 2% acid malt to correct for PH. If you are brewing a particularly hoppy or malty beer, make the corrections shown at the following link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Also, as was said before, the "nose bite" is just co2 that has collected in the fermentation chamber, and is normal.

 

[falkaveli]

Leave it in primary for 3 weeks, possibly longer depending on dry hop schedules. Cold crash before you bottle or keg.

Just for clarification, Since EuBrew and I said two different things on cold crashing...you can cold crash either before or after bottle carbonating. You'll have more than enough yeast in the bottle to carbonate even after cold crashing. Personally, I don't cold crash before bottling anymore for a few reasons:

1) Time: Adds 1-3 days between you and your beer.
2) Condensation: Cold beer in a cardboard box in a warm closet = moisture
3) Oxidation: (A bit dogma based) Crashing in a carboy will allow some entry of ambient air due to Boyle's Law. This could reduce hop flavor/aroma...especially in hop-forward beers. I wouldn't be worried about oxidation with such a small amount of air.
4) Carb Time: Although it will eventually carb, I have found (in some cases) it may take a bit longer after cold crashing, high flocculating yeasts (my experience with Wyeast 1968).

Really no wrong answer though.

 

[wardens355]

My suggestions for water are use Bru'n Water (linked in earlier posts) to calculate your mineral additions for mash pH/flavor, and use phosphoric acid if you need to drop the mash pH into range for lighter beers (if you use acid, make sure to note the strength for inputting into Bru'n Water, get a hold of some cheap plastic syringes to measure, and use acid-resistant gloves and eyewear).

 

[Twotaureanbrewing]

Pitching low levels of yeast can do that. Need to pitch enough cells based on your OG.

 

[ol-hazza]

I've made grainy tasting beers a couple of times, it faded after about 1 month in the bottle.
This has only happened with one yeast type (Mangrove Jacks Burton Union) and not everytime I used it.

 

[blackbeer]

my beers used to be grainy and i suspected my mash ph and or my fly sparge technique and mashtun design. i switched to the coleman cooler tun and now only mash the fermentables and steep the dark/specialty grains and batch sparge and have not had that problem since. my efficiency kind of sucks though but in the plan for next brew season is a water analysis and redesigned tun baffle.

oh and pound the heck out of it with late hops. 10 and 5 min.

 

[PilotBMP]

Thank you all for the responses. Here is the system I'm brewing on:

 

[LLBrewer]

Hmm, interesting. I actually like a more "grainy" taste.