My beer only tastes WORSE with time

[Mindflux]

From Howtobrew.com

If the water smells bad, many odors (including chlorine) can be removed by boiling. Some city water supplies use a chemical called chloramine instead of chlorine to kill bacteria. Chloramine cannot be removed by boiling and will give a medicinal taste to beer. Chloramine can be removed by running the water through an activated-charcoal filter, or by adding a campden tablet (potassium metabisulfite). Charcoal filters are a good way to remove most odors and bad tastes due to dissolved gases and organic substances. These filters are relatively inexpensive and can be attached inline to the faucet or spigot. Campden tablets are used in winemaking and should be available at your homebrew supply shop. One tablet will treat 20 gallons, so use only a quarter or half of the tablet to help it dissolve. Another alternative is to use bottled water from the grocery store.

 

[Walker]

i guess I should go back and re-read palmer's book. i haven't really used it for much in a long while. The curious side of me still wants to understand how an odorless, tasteless chemical can cause a medicinal flavor. Can somebody help me out there?

Also, I think the effects of campden are gone after a few days, so the yeast would be OK after that time. (I think.)

-walker

 

[rhinostylee]

From Howtobrew.com

If the water smells bad, many odors (including chlorine) can be removed by boiling. Some city water supplies use a chemical called chloramine instead of chlorine to kill bacteria. Chloramine cannot be removed by boiling and will give a medicinal taste to beer. Chloramine can be removed by running the water through an activated-charcoal filter, or by adding a campden tablet (potassium metabisulfite). Charcoal filters are a good way to remove most odors and bad tastes due to dissolved gases and organic substances. These filters are relatively inexpensive and can be attached inline to the faucet or spigot. Campden tablets are used in winemaking and should be available at your homebrew supply shop. One tablet will treat 20 gallons, so use only a quarter or half of the tablet to help it dissolve. Another alternative is to use bottled water from the grocery store.

My next question is this . . . I already use bottled water in the beer itself, but have been using tap water to rinse stuff. Now I know not to do that, but . . . how can I sanitize everything with bottled water? That means I'd have to buy 5 gallons of water for my beer and then at least another 7.5 gallons of water to wash and sanitize my equipment. That's like $15 just on water alone!

 

[Waldo]

Edit: Oops... didn't see the above post,

Posted by Walker

just saw the most recent post from waldo. Can you show me a link that says that chloramine (and not chlorine) causes the off taste? I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I've yet to find any text that says chloramine can cause a medicinal taste.

From How To Brew

Some city water supplies use a chemical called chloramine instead of chlorine to kill bacteria. Chloramine cannot be removed by boiling and will give a medicinal taste to beer. Chloramine can be removed by running the water through an activated-charcoal filter, or by adding a campden tablet (potassium metabisulfite).

 

[Rhoobarb]

Yes, we have chloramine in our water. I still use it to rinse with. No problems there.

Can't recall the exact grain amount; the recipe isn't in front of me, but it was probably close to 8 oz. each of roasted barley and black patent. Plus, we have water pH off the charts. Add all that up with a 180oF+ steeping water and...

Before I went AG, I ended up watching the steeping temp. and using a small amount (1/4-1/3 cup) of DME in my steeping water. I had read that BYO article I allued to earlier and it stated that doing so will lower the pH of the steeping water. No more worries about tannin extraction.

 

[Waldo]

I really don't think there would be enough chloramine residue left in your bottles to cause a problem. I do know that sanitizers are not cleansers, you need to use a good cleanser to scrub your bottles first, I use One Step no rinse cleanser and then follow up with Iodophor. Its still possible that you are getting an infection, new bottles can be very dirty inside.

 

[rhinostylee]

Allright, so right now it seems that my first batch was bad because of bleach residue, and my second because I didn't properly clean my bottles.

If I understand you correctly, tap water with chloramine should be okay to rinse with, and should not substantially alter the beer's flavor. Using tap water mixed with iodophor to sanitize should not harm my beer, either.

What is your opinion of bottle washers, the ones that connect to your faucet? Do you use them? Using a brush seems like a ton of work.

Also, my tap water tastes really bad. Does your taste bad as well?

 

[Waldo]

My tap water smells like an Olympic sized swimming pool, with a couple of jock straps tossed in, I use it to clean and sanitize. I can't remember where I read it but it was from one of the sanitizer companies, they said that you must scrub the surface of the item being sanitized with a good cleanser and then sanitize it, the scrubbing actually breaks up any colonies of baddies and then the sanitizer kills them.

It is a bit of work but not nearly as bad as mowing the lawn.

The bleach shouldn't really have been a problem either, in my case I think I was mixing it to strong and letting it set in my carboys and buckets to long and then not getting it rinsed as well as I thought I did.

 

[rhinostylee]

Its still possible that you are getting an infection, new bottles can be very dirty inside.

Could be . . . but does an infection result in medicinal tastes? Also, if it was infected, would all of the bottles of beer taste universally nasty instead of on a bottle by bottle basis?

 

[rhinostylee]

My tap water smells like an Olympic sized swimming pool, with a couple of jock straps tossed in.

Add a few doses of a$$ and that's my water!

One other thing . . . I generally fill up my buckets and stuff from my bathtub. In the morning when I first turn on my faucet, the water that comes out is brown. So obviously I let the water run for a while before I use it. Could it be nasty pipes that are contaminating my water?

The bleach shouldn't really have been a problem either, in my case I think I was mixing it to strong and letting it set in my carboys and buckets to long and then not getting it rinsed as well as I thought I did.

I think this is what ruined my first batch, I soaked my equipment for days, out of laziness and the idea that everything would be "extra sanitized."

 

[Waldo]

I would think it would be a hit and miss type problem if the beer is getting infected in the bottles, I mean you would think some of them would have to be okay. In my case I stopped using bleach, and started using iodophor so I may think it was the bleach causing the off flavors but it could have been a sanitation problem that the iodophor cleaned up. What I'm getting at is you try everything you can think of to correct the problem.

 

[rhinostylee]

Thanks for all of the good insights, hopefully this next one turns out!

 

[homebrewer_99]

I didn't read all the posts, but have you thought about using bottled water?

 

[rhinostylee]

I didn't read all the posts, but have you thought about using bottled water?

I do use bottled water in the brew itself, but use tap water to sanitize (mixed with iodophor) and to rinse. Do you use bottled water to sanitize as well?

 

[Orfy]

If your water's that bad I'd use a no rinse sanitiser.

 

[rhinostylee]

If your water's that bad I'd use a no rinse sanitiser.

I'm pretty sure iodopher is a no rinse sanitizer.

 

[MaineHopHead]

I'm pretty sure iodopher is a no rinse sanitizer.

yes it is, at 12.5ppm (1 tablespoon to 5 gallons, or 1.8 teaspoons to 3 gallons, or .6 teaspoons to 1 gallon)

 

[Lounge Lizard]

Also, I think the effects of campden are gone after a few days, so the yeast would be OK after that time. (I think.)

-walker

Winemakers use one campden tablet per gallon of must. Much less than the one tablet per 20 gallons in the howtobrew.com quote. You can pitch your wine after 24 hours. You do want to agitate it a little beforehand to release the built up gasses. So, yes, your thinking is correct.

With all the precautions beer makers use to prevent infection, I have been wondering why people don't sterilize their wort with campden, and then wait 24 hours and pitch. You don't see many if any beer makers doing such a thing, though it is common practice with a lot of winemakers. I wonder why that is....

 

[croba50]

I have brewed two beers now, both of which tasted awesome on bottling day. Unfortunately, they have never tasted that good again. There’s something wrong with my bottling process that is ruining my beer! I think the culprit is chlorine.

For my first batch, I sterilized my beers with bleach water, rinsed, and then actually baked them in the oven to “ultra-sterilize” them (don’t ask me why . . . I was too excited and I guess felt like creating extra work for myself). The beer tasted awesome on bottling day, and ever since then it tastes somewhat yeasty/medicinal. Very unpleasant. Over time, it only gets worse.

For the second batch, I figured that the bleach was the culprit on the first, and soaked brand new bottles in iodophor (sp?), no rinse, let them drain upside down on some sterilized aluminum foil until I bottled it. This batch tasted AMAZING on bottling day, and after bottling, it has developed that same foul taste as the first batch, only not as harsh, but getting worse by the day. AARGGGHHH!!!

I live in LA, which uses chloramine in the water supply. I used the tap water along with the iodophor to sanitize my bottles and everything else. Does the iodophor get rid of the chloramine?

I think that the chloramine is the problem . . . what do you think?

It’s really frustrating to get so close to making a great beer and then having it turn bad before you can drink it. I have yet to have a batch turn out, and I have one more kit of ingredients. If this one doesn’t work out, I think I’m done.

if you think that it may be a tap water problem and it does sound like it

I use 1 step cleaner/sanitizer rinse bottles let drip dry.....
this is what i would do is use bottled water to sanitize bottles and rinse
see if you have the same problem or boil the tap water for 10 mins let cool put bottles and 1 step ......
one step you can get at most hbs or online.

i did not read all the post someone all ready sug. bottled water to rinse.....

 

[rhinostylee]

Talked to the guy at my local brewshop . . . he said that LA's water is actually really clean. He said that he rinses everything from the hottest tap water he has after it is sanitized and has no problems.

So my plan of attack is to clean with no rinse, sanitize with iodophor, rinse in hot tap water, and mind the temp of steeping grains. If it still doesn't turn out, I'm going to kill myself, and I'm going to take as many people with me as I can. :cross:

 

[ScottT]

Winemakers use one campden tablet per gallon of must. Much less than the one tablet per 20 gallons in the howtobrew.com quote. You can pitch your wine after 24 hours. You do want to agitate it a little beforehand to release the built up gasses. So, yes, your thinking is correct.

With all the precautions beer makers use to prevent infection, I have been wondering why people don't sterilize their wort with campden, and then wait 24 hours and pitch. You don't see many if any beer makers doing such a thing, though it is common practice with a lot of winemakers. I wonder why that is....

Why add something that's not necessary. You're wort is bacteria free because you just got boiling it for an hour or more. The reason that wine is sulfated before pitching is because you don't want to boil your juice and set the pectins. You keep it cold and use a cold sterilization tecnique.

 

[ScottT]

Talked to the guy at my local brewshop . . . he said that LA's water is actually really clean. He said that he rinses everything from the hottest tap water he has after it is sanitized and has no problems.

So my plan of attack is to clean with no rinse, sanitize with iodophor, rinse in hot tap water, and mind the temp of steeping grains. If it still doesn't turn out, I'm going to kill myself, and I'm going to take as many people with me as I can. :cross:

If your water has chloramine in it, it still won't make good beer. Use botteled water to brew with. Use the tap water for cleaning an sanatizing. You don't need to rinse after the idophor sanatizer.

I had to tell you this because I don't want your blood or anyone elses on my consience.

 

[voodoochild7]

BRITTA BRITTA BRITTA then boil or boil then BRITTA. By the way I took a temperature reading of the hot water in my tap and it's 175 degrees. Is this hot enough to sanitize?

 

[rhinostylee]

If your water has chloramine in it, it still won't make good beer. Use botteled water to brew with. Use the tap water for cleaning an sanatizing. You don't need to rinse after the idophor sanatizer.

I had to tell you this because I don't want your blood or anyone elses on my consience.

I'd never use tap water to brew with, I've just been questioning if I could use it to rinse and to mix with iodophor to sanitize.

You know what, after reading all of this, I'm convinced that it's tannins from the grains that is ruining my beer. I was anal about sanitization for both brews, not to mention that all of my beer is universally foul in the same way.

 

[justbrewit]

i use tap water here in germany, i don't worry too much about it, i have a little butane torch that i sanitize the tap with after i take the screen off. i boil the tap water, dump it into the primary(2 1/2 gallons of water) and let it cool, then get my water for the boil. haven't had a problem yet. but i don't think the germans use as many chemicals in thier water as other areas do

 

[Walker]

i don't think the germans use as many chemicals in thier water as other areas do

Seems reasonable. I would wager that a lot of the drinking water in germany is clean snow-melt coming down out of the alps.

-walker

 

[rhinostylee]

Seems reasonable. I would wager that a lot of the drinking water in germany is clean snow-melt coming down out of the alps.

-walker

Assuming that they avoid using yellow snow . . .

 

[Thor]

(a) as long as you don't over heat your grains, you won't extract the tannins.

Though this may not be part of the cause to the original problem (bad taste after bottling), know that, in addition to steeping at the temperatures noted, you should also avoid squeezing the grains to remove the liquid after steeping. This can also release tannins and bad tastes into the wort. Instead, pour about a gallon of 170 degree water over the grains, which will transfer the modest sugars and remaining "good" flavors from the specialty grains into the wort.

Voodoo - 175 degrees does sanitize, provided the things to be sanitized are kept at that temperature for sufficient time (10-15 minutes to be sure). Are you sure its 175? That seems so high for tap water. Most folks say that temperatures 160-170 degrees or higher sanitize, fyi.

 

[Walker]

Assuming that they avoid using yellow snow . . .

urine is sterile. note, I didn't say SANITARY... it is actually STERILE. it might not taste great, but there's nothing in there that needs to be killed.

-walker

 

[Orfy]

So that's how carling get the colour and taste!!!!