My beer keeps going into the bottles tasting great and coming out tasting bad.

[nosoup4me]

Cold crashing will cause some oxidation but if there is a large headspace then it can be much more of an issue. How big are your fermenters and how much beer did you have in them?

This particular beer was in a 6.5 bucket with 5.25 gal in it.

Beers I just bottled was 5 gal in a 6 gal glass and 3 gal in a 5 gal better bottle.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

3 gal in 5 is a lot of headspace for cold crashing and 5 in a 6.5 might be too although I'm not sure if that can account for the kind of darkening you describe but there is one way to test. Fill your carboys to the shoulder if you plan to cold crash. Or even better skip the cold crash and otherwise minimize all other air exposure and see if your beer improves. Good luck!

 

[jahdub]

Cold crashing will cause some oxidation but if there is a large headspace then it can be much more of an issue. How big are your fermenters and how much beer did you have in them?

Why does cold crashing cause oxidation? The rate of chemical reactions is lower at 34 degrees than 68 degrees.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Why does cold crashing cause oxidation? The rate of chemical reactions is lower at 34 degrees than 68 degrees.

I think its usually the suck back you get when it cools off. When its fermenting warm you have positive pressure in the fermenter pushing out so all the CO2 is blanketing the beer and pushing out preventing oxygen from getting in. When it cools off the yeast stop pushing CO2 out, the CO2 starts to absorb into the beer, and you get negative pressure sucking in the outside air, and youll get a blanket of oxygen on top of the beer.

Though, how much this could really cause *massive oxidation issues I would say is up for debate. I cold crash and don't run into these types of issues, 1 to 1.5 gallon of head space in my fermenter, transfer to open bottling bucket without any flushing, and I don't get massive oxidation like the OP is describing. There has to be some other aggressive ingress of oxygen that is being missed somewhere, if it was so easy to oxygenate a liquid, there wouldn't be any need for aquarium pumps/diffuser dealies, splashing and bubbling are where its at(I mean, look at how much we have to stir/shake wort to oxygenate it prior to pitching yeast).

 

[nosoup4me]

-posted in wrong thread.

 

[bbohanon]

Not to knock bottle conditioning as I did it for well over a year myself, but I noticed my beer got 100% more consistent taste wise when I started kegging my beer and force carbing it.

When I was bottling, it was hit or miss if I was going to get the right level of carbonation or not and sometimes I got that off-taste you are getting on batches from time to time which frustrated me to no end.

Since moving to kegging, I know what that beer is going to be when its carbed and conditioned and its consistent taste-wise. I do still bottle from my keg once the beer is carbed and ready, but its more for portability if I am bringing in friends beer at work or needing keg space once the beer is properly carbed up.
Either way, the bottom line on my experience is kegging removed the issues I was having with bottle conditioning and taste consistency.
Yours (and others here) mileage with bottle conditioning may vary.

 

[nosoup4me]

Not to knock bottle conditioning as I did it for well over a year myself, but I noticed my beer got 100% more consistent taste wise when I started kegging my beer and force carbing it.

When I was bottling, it was hit or miss if I was going to get the right level of carbonation or not and sometimes I got that off-taste you are getting on batches from time to time which frustrated me to no end.

Since moving to kegging, I know what that beer is going to be when its carbed and conditioned and its consistent taste-wise. I do still bottle from my keg once the beer is carbed and ready, but its more for portability if I am bringing in friends beer at work or needing keg space once the beer is properly carbed up.
Either way, the bottom line on my experience is kegging removed the issues I was having with bottle conditioning and taste consistency.
Yours (and others here) mileage with bottle conditioning may vary.

Do you have to go all out and get a keezer when you keg. I talked to my wife about it but she hates the thought of another appliance for beer!

 

[TheHappyHopper]

Do you have to go all out and get a keezer when you keg. I talked to my wife about it but she hates the thought of another appliance for beer!

I have been looking at getting into 3 gallon kegs (I do mostly 2-2.5 gallon batches) with one of these faucets, and then either a small CO2 tank or one of these CO2 chargers. I think it would make for easy portability, and then I could fit one in our kitchen fridge if I wanted.

 

[BigFloyd]

I seriously doubt that enough air gets sucked back during cold crashing to create any oxidation issues unless maybe if you've been opening the bucket and messing around with the beer enough to lose the CO2 cloud covering the liquid. I cold crash every batch for a week at 35*F and have yet to detect any signs of oxidation in my batches (and I do know what the taste is).

I also do not believe that hot side aeration (HSA) is your issue from what you've described.

The most likely culprit is the soap that you're using on your equipment and bottles. Some soaps are quite difficult to rinse completely and just tiny amounts of some of their ingredients can impact the flavor of your brew. If you stick with Oxy or PBW for cleaning and StarSan for sanitizing, you should be good.

 

[bbohanon]

Do you have to go all out and get a keezer when you keg. I talked to my wife about it but she hates the thought of another appliance for beer!

No..I have some friends that do not put their kegs into keezers/kegerators at all before they start to serve them. You can carb up beer in a keg at any temp. I have even carbed kegs at room temp before putting them into a keezer to get them cold to serve, but a keezer/kegerator to keg beer is certainly not required for kegging beer at all.
You just need the keg(s) and the Co2 needed to force carb the beer (unless you are using the keg like a giant bottle and priming the kegged beer with sugar instead of Co2..some folks do this but I never have).

With all of that said, would I recommend a keezer/kegerator just because its easier to carb and chill the beer at the same time so its drinkable quicker and can be served from the keezer/kegerator? Absolutely. Why? Its awesome! :rockin:

 

[nosoup4me]

No..I have some friends that do not put their kegs into keezers/kegerators at all before they start to serve them. You can carb up beer in a keg at any temp. I have even carbed kegs at room temp before putting them into a keezer to get them cold to serve, but a keezer/kegerator to keg beer is certainly not required for kegging beer at all.
You just need the keg(s) and the Co2 needed to force carb the beer (unless you are using the keg like a giant bottle and priming the kegged beer with sugar instead of Co2..some folks do this but I never have).

With all of that said, would I recommend a keezer/kegerator just because its easier to carb and chill the beer at the same time so its drinkable quicker and can be served from the keezer/kegerator? Absolutely. Why? Its awesome! :rockin:

How long will bottled beer from a keg keep it's carbonation?

 

[m00ps]

If you just fill it like a growler? maybe a week or so. You should look into getting a beer gun or counter pressure bottle filler. It lets you purge the bottle with CO2 before filling it so it greatly extends the shelf life of the bottles.

 

[wardens355]

How long will bottled beer from a keg keep it's carbonation?

The amount of carbonation should not change over time, unless the cap isn't sealed. You lose some small amount of carbonation from keg to bottle, but once capped and allowed to settle (CO2 in beer and headspace equilibrates), the carbonation should stay constant. I try to fill my bottles from keg until they overflow and there is almost no headspace. I also slightly overcarbonate my kegs so I can fill bottles, lose a little carbonation, and still have good carb in capped bottles.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Here is an excellent way to bottle fill from a keg to retain carbonation...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=24678

 

[coldbrewnoob]

I once had to dump my beer from a leaking secondary to an alternate. It was a fast dump lots of extra oxygen added and the beer came out fine. Perhaps you were tasting soap in your beer and not oxidation. Most off the shelf comercial beers get oxidized from heat, and the shaking of the cases while shipping and moving and stocking. My beer dump had less oxidation than most any comercial / store boutgh beer.
As far as caps are concerned are you recycling either yours or store bought capps. I have done both and there are both capps and bottles that are differnt sizes. As soon as you capp one try to spin it with a medium amount of torque and if it spins its a no-good cap. If you have a bottle that spins new caps discard that bottle. If your caps spin on a normal bottle pull off the cap and throw away put a new cap on.

If you get a bottle (12 oz.) that is flat ad 2/3 tsp. table surgar to bottle recap and let sit for 7-10 more days it will be good to go. Or drink it flat and find out what your beer really taste like .

 

[bbohanon]

The amount of carbonation should not change over time, unless the cap isn't sealed. You lose some small amount of carbonation from keg to bottle, but once capped and allowed to settle (CO2 in beer and headspace equilibrates), the carbonation should stay constant. I try to fill my bottles from keg until they overflow and there is almost no headspace. I also slightly overcarbonate my kegs so I can fill bottles, lose a little carbonation, and still have good carb in capped bottles.

This has also been my experience with bottling from a keg using my beer gun.
My bottles are as carbed as my keg was and come out perfect. Plus you dont get the sediment in the bottom of the bottles like you do with bottle conditioning. It looks like store bought beer which is nice when you are handing out beer to folks who are not used to drinking homebrew. I have alot of beer drinking friends I give my beer to ask me how I have clean bottled homebrew beer as alot of them are used to drinking bottle conditioned homebrew. I tell them the beer gnomes are my friend and sweep the sediment out of my beer. lol
Back when I was bottle conditioning, I was having to explain to the non-homebrew crowd I gave my beer to what that "gunk" was on the bottle of my bottles and it was a turnoff for a few of those folks. Bottling from the keg eliminated that.

Another few really pros of kegging beer is:
- You can also "jump" the beer from one keg to another with almost zero oxidation exposure. I have done this to move beer from one keg to another to clean the beer up clarification wise or if I am taking a keg to a party and dont want to worry about stirring up any sediment during the ride over to the party.

- You dont have to bottle the beer until you are ready to bottle it (or just tap and drink from right from the keg if you can drop it into a cooler and pack it with ice to chill it or put the keg into a fridge) and its ready to drink when it hits the bottle.

- You can "sample" the beer as its carbing up without having to crack an entire bottle to get an idea of where the beer is carbing wise.

- Its just easier all the way around maintenance wise..when the keg kicks, rinse it out, sanitize it, pressurize it and store it for the next batch.

Cons:
- Its more expensive. Kegs prices are on the rise and will continue to rise as long as the craft beer craze continues to ramp up. Plus you are having to keep Co2 on hand, get a pressure gauge, hoses, etc. It adds up. Get a "reconditioned keg starter kit" from your LBHS with used ball lock cornies if possible. The "reconditioned keg" kits are usually the cheapest way to get into kegging as it will come with what you need to get started at minimum. Get 2 kegs to start..Trust me..if you get one, you will be needing another before you know it. If you are brewing 10 gallon batches, 2 kegs are required to keg the whole batch.

- If you want to serve from the keg cold, it does require a fridge/keezer/kegerator to do (to keep the keg cold). Again, not required, but is a nice to have.

The only regret I have on moving to kegging beer is that I did not do it sooner. Its the best of both worlds and really opens your options up packaging-wise and serving-wise with your beer. As for your original problem with off tastes, I 100% think kegging reduces the chance of getting those off-tastes popping up in your beer when bottle conditioning. I know it has in my experience.
Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[kinjiru]

Hi,

I also have been struggling with this problem. After fermentation, the flavours are there, perfectly balanced and then, when I bottle the beer, its all gone...

From my little experience, I've observed that the first weeks, the yeast is still eating those extra sugars and this reaction affects its flavour. Also, the carbonation only dilutes with the beer weeks later. If you open a bottle too soon, it will be a little over carb and make a lot of foam.

Try to leave the bottles alone for a while. I've made a Belgian ale in November and, after two weeks on the bottle, I've tasted with my friends and it was awful...but now, 7 months later, the beer is actually good The same happened with a Wheat beer.

For the first months, they all taste the same: yeast. Try to pour the beer into a glass and then, stir up the yeast of the bottle and taste it. Its a good way to check if you are experiencing the yeast flavour on the beer.

Regards,

Rui