Murphy and Son's Diatonics I and II for Water Treatment?

[user 246304]

I don't even know if we can obtain them, but just noted that Black Sheep uses "standard diatonic treatment from Murphys" as I guess their source water is highly carbonate, and it got me thinking as well. Just another route.

After reading they also use Fawcett's M.O., I did a better search, only to find MoreBeer supplies it. I have used it but it's been a long time. I've more used Warminster, but looking forward to trying out Fawcett's as my memory holds it in very high regard.

 

[user 246304]

Bump, but really asking if anyone has ever comes across these diatonic treatments in the States. Can't seem to find it and querying Murphy and Sons has borne no fruit. I can always buy sulfuric acid (I have HCL), but I'd hoped to experiment with these treatments themselves.

 

[ajdelange]

It's 'Dionic' and consists of two part treatment. The Dionic AT No. 1 is 25% sulfuric acid added in sufficient quantity to reduce alkalinity below 1 mEq/L (ideally, they say, to 0.5 - 0.6 mEq/L). That means that if you had 6 mEq/L alkalinity originally (6 mEq/L bicarbonate) you'd now have 0.5 bicarbonate and 5.5 sulfate. The other solution, Dionic HT No. 2 is "a blend of calcium and chloride salts" which, I assume, means calcium chloride (though that could be interpreted to include calcium phosphate, calcium bromide... and potassium chloride, silver chloride...) that is designed to give you desired levels of calcium and chloride in addition to the sulfate you added plus whatever else was already in the water. All sounds a little hokey to me. Their other product, AMS, is the (I believe) equinormal mix of sulfuric and hydrochloric acid which Brewpaks sells in smaller quantities as "CRS".

As to the alkalinity of Masham water, I can't say. I have only experienced it as filtered through the Theakstons and Black Sheep Breweries (which adjoin).

 

[bitteritdown]

Just a link to the products in question:

https://murphyandson.co.uk/store/17-liquor-treatments

The term Diatonic apparently relates to music where-as the term 'dionic' is probably used on these products to refer to two ions?

 

[user 246304]

Yep, diatonic indeed relates to music. As does pentatonic, etc. I don't know the reason they use the term, but it is curious. Thanks for the link to their treatments page. I've queried them twice but come up empty. I imagine the notion of shipping hazardous materials overseas is more trouble than its worth to them.

"Diatonics I and II," Dr. Smith, Dr. Young; "Drs. Smith and Young."

Thanks AJ. To be honest it's been awhile on this thread and I'm not clear what I was looking for, save sulfuric in a blend with HCl. My only memory of CRS was some lament from a brewer who enjoyed the de-carbonation, but he wished he could tweak the ratio of acids. I'd thought it was a Murphy and Son product for some reason, but I see I was wrong. Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[ajdelange]

There are probably regulations which prohibit them from shipping sulfuric acid to many states if not to the US in general without a good deal of hassle as sulfuric acid is pretty closely regulated these days. For example, any facility with more than x pounds (don't remember what the number is - 100 lbs?) has to register with some federal agency. In my neighborhood the CIA and Visa are on that list for the same reason. Both have huge backup battery banks.

ACS is a blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids. By looking at their dosing table one can figure out that it is an equimolar mixture of the two acids (IIRC - it may be equi-equivalent). If you go to their website you will see the product being prepared in 55 gal drums though they do sell smaller quantites, though more than you would ever want to buy. This is why Brewpaks repackages it in smaller quantities for the home brew market.

 

[user 246304]

Thanks AJ. I think I saw Martin refer to CRS somewhere on the forum, and that probably got me looking around and it was somewhere on that desultory tripping that I saw someone lament the fixed ratio. So I associated CRS with Murphy, wrongly. I've spent time over the last few days trying another search for food-grade sulfuric, but coming up empty. Plenty of lab grade in different normalities, but so far, no food-grade.