Munton's Carbtabs: Beer #1 = fail

[ebj5883]

So I have 2 local brew shops, one that highly praises these Muntons Carbtabs, and the other that says that they've had mixed results and don't recommend them at all. Any online reviews that I've been able to find have all praised them, so I went ahead and used them. The packaging says that after a week, you have carbonated beer, but I decided to let them sit 3 weeks at room temperature and a week in the keezer at 38 degrees F, as I figured the beer would still be pretty "young" after the packaging's instructions said the beer was good to go. Popped open beer #1 last night, and it was flat as it was on the day I read the FG and tasted it to see if it was ready for bottling.

Now I'm relatively new to the home brewing scene (started something like early March 2011), and these are my guesses:

If the details matter, the beer is a 2 gallon smoked porter batch. Feel free to ask anything else that might make a difference and I'll be happy to answer

1.) The yeast has settled out, and since I didn't use priming sugar, I neglected to stir it and let it sit 15 minutes before bottling, in turn causing any settled out yeast to remain settled out.

2.) The local brew shop that recommends against these tabs is in fact correct in suggesting so, but I find it difficult to believe that such unreliability would exist in a product that so many seem to swear by.

3.) Flat beers happen, and this could just be a fluke.

Either way, I'll be sticking with priming sugar for the next couple batches, and maybe experiment with some other brews using a bottle or three primed with Carbtabs.

 

[ArcaneXor]

They work, but in my experience they are a little slower than dextrose, and they sometimes leave behind little pieces of whatever binding agent they use in the tabs. How many did you use per bottle? And what was the ABV and yeast strain? I am asking because some people forget that they need to add 3-5 tabs per bottle and only add one, and high alcohol beers don't also tend to carbonate very well in bottles.

 

[LKABrewer]

I used the carb tabs once. It took a long time for the beer to carbonate (almost 6 weeks), and even after they were carbonated I had a lot of "chunks" floating in my beer. Take your beers out of the fridge, shake them up a little, and leave them @ 70* for a couple more weeks.

 

[ebj5883]

They work, but in my experience they are a little slower than dextrose, and they sometimes leave behind little pieces of whatever binding agent they use in the tabs. How many did you use per bottle? And what was the ABV and yeast strain? I am asking because some people forget that they need to add 3-5 tabs per bottle and only add one, and high alcohol beers don't also tend to carbonate very well in bottles.

The recipe/instruction sheet has gone missing, and the shop doesn't open for a few hours to check that info out. I did however go to his store's website, and the "suggested" yeast was S-04, so I would assume that he included that with the kit. As far as ABV, it should be somewhere around 4.5%. Now that I think of it though, I believe I added the entire yeast packet to the 2 gallon fermenter. Should I have scaled it down and added 2/5's of it in turn?

 

[ebj5883]

Turns out I'm an idiot, and just figured out how to view the recipe off the site. It lists US-05 and I know it was a dry yeast, in case that matters. ABV is 5.4%.

 

[DarkBrood]

Both of the guys above have good points. I went through a couple of packets of Munton's Carb Tabs when I started (i.e. my first several extract and partial mash recipes).
What I noticed was this:
* Because the carb tabs contain some DME, they take longer to fully carbonate (like a week or two more)
* The DME and small amount of binder starch SOMETIMES leave little visible "floaters" - I personally only saw it happen twice.
* You need a MINIMUM of 3 tabs per bottle, preferably 4 or 5.
* You won't be able to achieve a full "champagne" effervescence with carb tabs - the DME is too heavy.
* The DME and starch DO add to the body thickness of the beer, as well as helping to stabilize the head so that it "laces" (although with the heavier weight, the head "falls" more quickly).
* Warm conditioning after bottling is almost mandatory for the first week or two.
END RESULT: The carb tabs are a quick, handy way to prime at bottling. They are best for mid-body, darker beers. (Lighter, more bitter beers seem to cause more "floaters", while extremely dark and heavy beers seem to eat up the tabs without a huge effect.) They are handiest when experimenting with how much primer to add in a recipe (i.e. different bottles are primed different amounts), as they cut easily for measurements. The tabs are also far handier than liquid if you prime on a per-bottle basis without a bottling bucket.

I had several ales that ended with an almost cask-like carbonation level after a longer (3 week) warm conditioning and a short (1 week) cold-conditioning.

I have not tried the Coopers tabs myself, but I have heard that they are comparable with two exceptions: they don't create floaters (less DME), and they are impossible to cut (hard candy-like).

I personally prefer to use a bottling bucket (even with the extra transfer risk of infection or oxidation) and boil my priming sugars and cool them for a batch at a time.

 

[DustBow]

I've used Coopers and had good results - easy to use, 1 per bottle, 2 for a 22oz bomber.
Don't recall any more floaters than a typical bottled homebrew - some time in the fridge after carbing helps all that stuff settle and compact.
I always let bottles carb for 3 weeks at room temps before trying the first one or two.

 

[ebj5883]

The average room temperature where my new "Summer" fermenting area vs. my "Winter" one (i.e. basement vs. 2nd floor) is 57 degrees F. Lately the outside temperature hasn't broken 70 degrees, maybe I should put them back upstairs for a week or two until it gets hotter again. I'll turn the bottles upside down a few times to get the yeast back into suspension and let them sit in a dark closet at 65 degrees +/- if that should help.

Also, these are 22 ounce bottles. The directions say to use 4 tablets per 12 ounce bottle, so the math came out to somewhere around 7-8 each 22 ouncer. I used 8 in some, 7 in others, and even 6 in a couple of them to experiment with carbonation levels (as I understand that porters should be only lightly carbonated anyways).

 

[Revvy]

Why did you stick them in the fridge if they weren't carbed yet. That's a gaurentee (as you put the yeast to sleep) that they WON'T carb.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

And bombers take longer than their 12 ounce counterparts. A larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...

Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...

Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...

Simple. It's the ration of contact area just like in a keg. The c02 will need to pressurize the head space (Which takes LESS TIME) in a bigger bottle (More Yeast and sugar, roughly the same head space) but then it has to force that c02 into solution through the same contact area...thus it takes longer.

Add to that, like other's have said, carb tabs have tended to even take longer than bulk primed beer, so another reason why there is nothing wrong, just that they're not carbed YET. But will be.

Bottom line, take them out of the fridge, give them a shake, and stick them all away in your warm closet for a few more weeks. They will be fine.

 

[Revvy]

1.) The yeast has settled out, and since I didn't use priming sugar, I neglected to stir it and let it sit 15 minutes before bottling, in turn causing any settled out yeast to remain settled out.

The yeast can find the sugar pretty easily, they're not dead, and there's always plenty floating around until you chill them.

2.) The local brew shop that recommends against these tabs is in fact correct in suggesting so, but I find it difficult to believe that such unreliability would exist in a product that so many seem to swear by.

They're not unreliable at all, you're just impatient.

3.) Flat beers happen, and this could just be a fluke.

Flat beer is rare is you added ANY form of sugar, you're just impatient. (do you detect a theme? )

Either way, I'll be sticking with priming sugar for the next couple batches, and maybe experiment with some other brews using a bottle or three primed with Carbtabs.

It would STILL take a minimum of 3 weeks for them to carb, AND since you said they're porters- They've taken me 4-8 weeks to carb up, EVEN when I use priming sugar and bulk prime.

Again...there's nothing wrong, except you're impatient.

In the future, only put one or 2 beers in the fridge after 3-4 weeks. Let them chill at least one day, but better 2, then open those and gauge carb and conditioning of the beers, BEFORE YOU PUT THEM ALL IN.

And if they're not ready....leave the rest alone for another week or 2 and repeat, ONLY WITH 1 or 2 bottles...Don't take them all out of the carb/conditioning environment, until you know the beer is ready....Don't just grab them all and fridge them. You don't want to put the yeast into a dormant non conditioning/carbing state, until the job is actually done.

 

[ebj5883]

Why did you stick them in the fridge if they weren't carbed yet. That's a gaurentee (as you put the yeast to sleep) that they WON'T carb.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

And bombers take longer than their 12 ounce counterparts. A larger volume sized bottle usually needs more time to carb AND condition. I have some pints, 22 oz bombers and other sizes that I often use, but since I enter contests I usually also do a sixer or two of standard 12 ouncers for entering. And inevitably the 12 ouncers are done at least a week faster than the larger bottles....some times two weeks ahead of time...

Also the rule of thumb is 3 weeks at 70 degrees for a normal grav 12 ounce bottle....to carb and condition....It takes longer for the yeasties to convert the larger volume in the bigger bottles to enough co2 in the headspace to be reabsorbed back into the solution...A ration I don't know how much...

Big Kahuna gives a good explanation here...


Add to that, like other's have said, carb tabs have tended to even take longer than bulk primed beer, so another reason why there is nothing wrong, just that they're not carbed YET. But will be.

Bottom line, take them out of the fridge, give them a shake, and stick them all away in your warm closet for a few more weeks. They will be fine.

I'm not too sure I went over the steps I went about the right way when I posted them. Basically (to clear up any misunderstandings ) I let the porter sit in the fermenter an extra week and a half (total 3 1/2 weeks), due to lack of time to bottle, and figuring it couldn't hurt. At that point I had finally gotten around to bottling it up and using the carbtabs. Once this was done, I let it sit in the 70F dark closet for 3 weeks (as that was the time it took for the only other bottled batch I made; an irish red). Once that 3 weeks was up (total time 6 1/2 weeks by this time), I took and fridged the bottles up for an additional week. With 2 months (give or take) down now, I figured I would be in the clear. Just one of those learning humps I suppose!

At any rate, I learned a fair amount from your postings. I'll be brewing enough beer in the next couple months to keep my closet and basement stocked with "conditioning" beers for months! Patience isn't an issue here, especially when fall semester begins and my drinking goes back to a 6 pack every 3 months or so

 

[Revvy]

IOnce that 3 weeks was up (total time 6 1/2 weeks by this time), I took and fridged the bottles up for an additional week. With 2 months (give or take) down now, I figured I would be in the clear. Just one of those learning humps I suppose!

It doesn't matter how long a beer's been in primary or secondary where carbonation is concerned. When you add priming sugar the clock is wiped clean and begins again. All that matters where carbing is concerned is how long the beer has been in the bottle. And if ANY beer is not carbed...all that it means is that it hasn't been long enough.