Munich or Victory in my ESB?

[Kayos]

Making a basic ESB with Maris, Carapils and Crystal. I have some left over Munich and Victory malts and am thinking they would be a nice addition. Which one and how much would be to style? Maybe both???

 

[westerntrout]

all a matter of tatse of course but i would not use carapils, no munich if you use MO, perhaps 2 - 3% victory, 5% 40 to 60 crystal. thats it. my best ESB's all had a simple malt bill

 

[Professor Frink]

I always use at least 3 pounds of Munich in my ESB's for a nice malty flavor.

 

[TexLaw]

Munich kicks butt in an ESB, but is it light or dark? If light, it is hard to use too much, but I would keep it below 30%. If it's dark, you need to dial it much further down to stay in style for color and to keep it from getting too nutty. Victory also is fine, but again, you don't want it to get too toasty or nutty. A little bit of that is good in an ESB, but too much gets you into brown ale territory.

What's the Lovibond on that crystal? A healthy dose of medium range crystal is very nice in an ESB to add caramel and, if you have a bit of diacetyl, toffee notes. Lighter crystal tends to be a little too simply sweet, and darker crystal starts to add dark fruit character that is more appropriate in a barleywine.


TL

 

[Bobby_M]

I agree, don't overdo it when you're using MO. My last ESB creation definitely tickled the Brown Ale territory especially since I used a touch of chocolate malt.

 

[Kayos]

Basically my recipe was going to be this:

8 lbs. MO
.5 lbs carapils
.5 60L crystal
Kent Goldings hopped until about 35 IBU's.
Nottinghams dry yeast
Either Victory or Munich about a pound of each or either one.


If carapils are out of the style here, I'll leave them out. Too much body? Opinions on this?


Why be careful with MO in this? Am I wrong to think it is just a great UK version of pale malt?

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I'd go with Munich. Nothing wrong with the carapils in there. A little bit will help just about any beer.

 

[slnies]

Basically my recipe was going to be this:

8 lbs. MO
.5 lbs carapils
.5 60L crystal
Kent Goldings hopped until about 35 IBU's.
Nottinghams dry yeast
Either Victory or Munich about a pound of each or either one.


If carapils are out of the style here, I'll leave them out. Too much body? Opinions on this?


Why be careful with MO in this? Am I wrong to think it is just a great UK version of pale malt?

Both are toastier versions of pale, if it were mine I would "let it rip". Experimentation is one of the best ways to stumble onto something good. Style parameters are guidelines not rules and there are plenty of commercial breweries that stretch the bounds of style just for something new. So brew on.

 

[ajf]

My last ESB (and one of the best) was 8.5 lb M.O. + 0.5 lb Crystal 60

S-04 is much better than Nottingham for an ESB.

-a.

 

[Kayos]

My last ESB (and one of the best) was 8.5 lb M.O. + 0.5 lb Crystal 60

S-04 is much better than Nottingham for an ESB.

-a.

I hear you, but my choices were Nottinghams or S-56. I have both. Recommend either?

It is not style as much as flavor I am going after. And yea, I know it all depends on palate, I am just trying to get opinions.

 

[Professor Frink]

I hear you, but my choices were Nottinghams or S-56. I have both. Recommend either?

It is not style as much as flavor I am going after. And yea, I know it all depends on palate, I am just trying to get opinions.

I agree, neither of those yeasts are ideal for an ESB, but if I had to pick, I'd use Nottingham.

 

[westerntrout]

isn't that the beauty of HB? i don't like munich in my esb and others like 30%. i don't think carapils should be any where near an esb and others like it. a # of sugar or corn in the brew like the british, good-oh mate! or go american and never let corn or sugar near the brew, perfect. after a while you brew what YOU like to drink and to heck with the rest of the world and the style gudelines. no real right or wrong. i don;t mind a light dose of cascade for an aroma hop in my esb's but it would be absolutely proscribed if i went by the guidelines.

 

[Kayos]

AMEN, trout!!!

Well said.

 

[Jo3sh]

My rule of thumb for building styles from particular regions is to stick with ingredients from that region (or at least similar to those ingredients). Munich is delicious, but I don't think it has any place in an English-style beer.

By that rule, I'd personally drop the Carapils and use the Victory.

However, the overriding rule of homebrewing, as westerntrout mentions, is to brew what you like to drink, so there's no real wrong answer here.

 

[CBBaron]

My choice would be to drop the Carapils and add Munich and/or Victory. I think either or both would improve the beer.
Craig

 

[menschmaschine]

FWIW, in Designing Great Beers, Ray Daniels states in the chapter on Bitters and Pale Ales that, of the beer recipes he studied, "body and head enhancers" in the form of Carapils, wheat, and flaked barley collectively appeared in half of them. He also states that Munich, Victory, and other "character grains" appeared in some of them.