Multi step infusion for Ph levels?

[bennihana]

I ihave read in a few places, but it was just barely mentioned, that multi step mashes can help stablize your ph level. Is there any truth to this and if so what would be the proper temps and times to help with this?

 

[stpug]

That's a debatable question for sure

There is a low temp rest that's supposed to produce phytic acid which helps to lower the pH of the mash, which most of us can use on most light-ish recipes. The debatable part is whether it's A) still useful with our well- and over-modified malts of today, and B) worth the time investment of a couple hours to get a little acid to lower the pH when you can use something as easy as lactic acid or phosphoric acid.

My current understanding is that our well-/over-modified malts have actually denatured the enzymes that would allow for a phytic acid rest and resting there is nearly a pointless effort. Prior to 4 days ago, I would have said it's a valid rest and now I'm left wondering if it is or isn't.

 

[VladOfTrub]

Though, phytase is kilned out of high modified malt. Malt is inherently acidic. Crystal and black malt are more acidic than pale, pils and lager. Mashing shouldn't begin above pH 6 or below 4.7. Wort needs to be in the pH band of the yeast being used. The pH for Ale yeast is different than Lager. A rest will stablize pH, even with high modified malt. Mash pH plays an important part when it comes to enzymatic activity. Enzymes, beta and alpha become sluggish if outside their pH band. There is data that shows pH of malt for a reason. The three hour time needed for acidulation is when a small portion of sour mash is made before hand and then used to lower main mash pH. It takes at least that long to sour up the small portion of mash at lacto temps. If water chemistry is off, acidulation of the main mash will take longer or stick at a certain pH. Decoction brewers take advantage of gradual pH reduction and use it to determine rest temps for enzymatic reasons. A unique feature of a decoction is that enzymes are taken through optimum pH and temp bands a few times. When using some acid malt along with low modified pils malt and neutral water. During the time it takes to do the decoctions, going from the acid rest through the protein rest. Mash pH reduces quite a bit. Regardless of the malt being high modified or not, pH is important.

 

[bennihana]

i have a programable PID controller with a RIMS system so i was just curious if it was worth the extra time during my brew day to run an automated infusion. Its no extra effort on my part since the PID does all the heating and time at the different temps and times, was just curious if it had any beneficial effect on my beer for the time it takes.

 

[VladOfTrub]

What purpose does the rims serve in your brewing process now? Do you use the basic hot water infusion method to hit conversion temp and use the rims to maintain the temp? Does the rims use an electric heater or is the tun fired? How long will it take the rims to raise the mash temp from one rest temp to another? As far as improving the beer, a step mash duplicates to a limited extent what a decoction accomplishes in the final product. George Fix wrote a book about step mashing. He claims to have invented the process. I'm not sure if a protein rest would be beneficial using rims. I'm not sure that the goop would lay on top of the grain bed and if it did, could it compact the bed during the recirc periods. IMO, boiling water infusions would work better and quicker. With infusion there is less of a risk of compacting the grain bed. Unless, when it is time to run off extract, you stir everything up and flush everything into the boiler, then compacting may not be an issue. The filter bed becomes useless. Try out the step process and see how it works with the equipment and how it affects the final product. It's learning and gaining experience.