Mt Hood Pilsner Recipe Critique

[mr_javi]

I have a pound of 2016 Mt Hood I need to use. Does this look ok? Im concerned it may be good much hops even though the IBU and BU/GU ratio are right for the style. This would be my first lager.


OG 1.048
ABV 4.9%
IBU 36

9.5 lbs Weyermann Pilsner
.5 lbs Carafoam

1oz. Mt hood 60
1oz. Mt Hood 30
1oz. Mt Hood 15
1oz Mt Hood 0

Big starter of WLP 830 German Lager or multiple packs of 34/70

 

[FunkedOut]

Looks like it’ll be Mt Hood front and center.
I’d make the 60min a first wort, make the 30min a 20min, skip the 15min and make the 0min a 2min.

But that’s just personal taste. I’m not really hop nutty.

 

[causticboot]

Based on the style I would maybe take out some of the late additions to the beer?

 

[MrPowers]

I would actually brew that beer exactly as you have it written. I brew a very similar german pilsner with Mittelfruh, and it turns out great. I use FWH, 45 min, 25 min, and 10 min whirlpool additions in similar quantities to what you have listed.

 

[mr_javi]

I would actually brew that beer exactly as you have it written. I brew a very similar german pilsner with Mittelfruh, and it turns out great. I use FWH, 45 min, 25 min, and 10 min whirlpool additions in similar quantities to what you have listed.

Thanks Mr. Powers.
Does your recipe produce noticeable bitterness, or I guess a better way of phrasing that is, what IBU does your recipe turn out? I like my German style beers to have a somewhat noticeable bitterness. Typically, I shoot for the upper limit of the style range, and I am usually happy with the results. Also, what yeast do you use?

 

[Steveruch]

34/70 makes a great pilsner.

 

[MrPowers]

Thanks Mr. Powers.
Does your recipe produce noticeable bitterness, or I guess a better way of phrasing that is, what IBU does your recipe turn out? I like my German style beers to have a somewhat noticeable bitterness. Typically, I shoot for the upper limit of the style range, and I am usually happy with the results. Also, what yeast do you use?

I would say your strategy of targeting the top end of the style is probably a good plan. In the case of Pilsner, water contributes a lot to perceived bitterness. I started using RO water and building with minerals according to Yoopers (A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer) thread. In this case, you probably want to target very soft water balanced toward chloride instead of sulfate.

I'm not sure if it's because I'm using older hops (2015/2016 properly stored) or just the way my system works out, but I find with most of my beers the bitterness endings up being about 80% of what beersmith calculates (tinseth). The first time I brewed my recipe, I hit an OG of 1.053 and was targeting 48 IBU calculated (80% =~38.4 IBU). I would say that it was pretty close to a perceived 38 IBU, which was about right for the recipe.

I don't remove any hops during the whirlpool, so they were all above 200F for 10 minutes prior to turning on the chill water. I generally get below 170F within 2 to 5 minutes and down to 120F within 20 minutes. I've found since then that increasing my whirlpool time to 15 minutes gets me much closer to the projected IBU numbers without having too dramatic of an impact on flavor.

As far as yeast goes, the first time I made it I used Wyeast 2278 Czech Pilsner and Wyeast 2000 Budvar. I greatly preferred the 2278. It was extremely clean and crisp (fermented at 50F). It also flocculated well and produced no noticeable sulfur or diacetyl. I just fermented at 50F and then slowly ramped down to 32F after 2 weeks, kegged and force carbonated. I was drinking 2 or 3 weeks later. I just brewed it again yesterday and used 833 Bock Lager (one of my favorite lager yeasts) and 2002 Gambrinus. I'll let you know how those turn out.

I'm actually not a huge fan of 2124/830/3470 (supposedly all the same strain). A lot of people use it with good results, but I don't use any fining agents and I find it impossible to get 34/70 to drop clear. It would be a good choice for you if you like the strain.

Edit: for the record my grain bill for this beer was 95% Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner and 5% Floor Malted Bohemian Dark.

 

[mr_javi]

I would say your strategy of targeting the top end of the style is probably a good plan. In the case of Pilsner, water contributes a lot to perceived bitterness. I started using RO water and building with minerals according to Yoopers (A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer) thread. In this case, you probably want to target very soft water balanced toward chloride instead of sulfate.

I'm not sure if it's because I'm using older hops (2015/2016 properly stored) or just the way my system works out, but I find with most of my beers the bitterness endings up being about 80% of what beersmith calculates (tinseth). The first time I brewed my recipe, I hit an OG of 1.053 and was targeting 48 IBU calculated (80% =~38.4 IBU). I would say that it was pretty close to a perceived 38 IBU, which was about right for the recipe.

I don't remove any hops during the whirlpool, so they were all above 200F for 10 minutes prior to turning on the chill water. I generally get below 170F within 2 to 5 minutes and down to 120F within 20 minutes. I've found since then that increasing my whirlpool time to 15 minutes gets me much closer to the projected IBU numbers without having too dramatic of an impact on flavor.

As far as yeast goes, the first time I made it I used Wyeast 2278 Czech Pilsner and Wyeast 2000 Budvar. I greatly preferred the 2278. It was extremely clean and crisp (fermented at 50F). It also flocculated well and produced no noticeable sulfur or diacetyl. I just fermented at 50F and then slowly ramped down to 32F after 2 weeks, kegged and force carbonated. I was drinking 2 or 3 weeks later. I just brewed it again yesterday and used 833 Bock Lager (one of my favorite lager yeasts) and 2002 Gambrinus. I'll let you know how those turn out.

I'm actually not a huge fan of 2124/830/3470 (supposedly all the same strain). A lot of people use it with good results, but I don't use any fining agents and I find it impossible to get 34/70 to drop clear. It would be a good choice for you if you like the strain.

Edit: for the record my grain bill for this beer was 95% Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner and 5% Floor Malted Bohemian Dark.

Awesome! Thank you again for the tips! Do you happen to know hat your water profile is. That is something I need to figure out before I brew this. I use Bru n' Water and build from RO.

Do you step mash with the Floor Malter Pils? I've read that stuff is less modified.

 

[MrPowers]

Awesome! Thank you again for the tips! Do you happen to know hat your water profile is. That is something I need to figure out before I brew this. I use Bru n' Water and build from RO.

Do you step mash with the Floor Malter Pils? I've read that stuff is less modified.

The one I did yesterday was approximately (assuming all 0 values coming out of the RO):
Ca: 50ppm
Mg: 5ppm
Na: 5ppm
Cl: 75ppm
SO4: 50ppm
HCO3: <10ppm (none added to RO).

I used CaCl, Epsom, Gypsum, and a tiny amount of table salt to get into this range. I mashed at 1.5 qt/lb and had to add 2ml 88% lactic acid to hit a measured PH of 5.4 @ 90F. Keep in mind, this was for an 11 gallon batch.

From what I remember, the first time I brewed it, I didn't add any SO4 (I didn't take good enough notes that time, because my computer was down). I just added enough CaCl to get to 50ppm Ca and left it alone after that. This time, I was going for a slightly drier beer (closer to Bitburger) so I bumped up the SO4 a touch.

Yes I do step mash the Floor Malted Bo Pils, although I have heard that it is unnecessary. It is less modified than some other pilsner malts, but by malting standards it is still considered fully modified. My mash schedule for this beer has been:
- 10 - 15 min protein rest somewhere between 125 and 138
- ramp to ~147F for 30 to 40 min
- ramp to ~160F for 20 to 30 min
- ramp to mashout
I mash with continuous recirculation using a HERMS system.

Here's a pic from the first time I brewed this beer. This is the 2278 yeast with no finings at all after approx. 4 weeks of lagering:

 

[mr_javi]

The one I did yesterday was approximately (assuming all 0 values coming out of the RO):
Ca: 50ppm
Mg: 5ppm
Na: 5ppm
Cl: 75ppm
SO4: 50ppm
HCO3: <10ppm (none added to RO).

I used CaCl, Epsom, Gypsum, and a tiny amount of table salt to get into this range. I mashed at 1.5 qt/lb and had to add 2ml 88% lactic acid to hit a measured PH of 5.4 @ 90F. Keep in mind, this was for an 11 gallon batch.

From what I remember, the first time I brewed it, I didn't add any SO4 (I didn't take good enough notes that time, because my computer was down). I just added enough CaCl to get to 50ppm Ca and left it alone after that. This time, I was going for a slightly drier beer (closer to Bitburger) so I bumped up the SO4 a touch.

Yes I do step mash the Floor Malted Bo Pils, although I have heard that it is unnecessary. It is less modified than some other pilsner malts, but by malting standards it is still considered fully modified. My mash schedule for this beer has been:
- 10 - 15 min protein rest somewhere between 125 and 138
- ramp to ~147F for 30 to 40 min
- ramp to ~160F for 20 to 30 min
- ramp to mashout
I mash with continuous recirculation using a HERMS system.

Here's a pic from the first time I brewed this beer. This is the 2278 yeast with no finings at all after approx. 4 weeks of lagering:
View attachment 551186

Beautiful beer man! Thanks for the water info. Helps to know something that is proven.

 

[MrPowers]

Beautiful beer man! Thanks for the water info. Helps to know something that is proven.

Thanks! I'd go with straight CaCl on your first batch to see how you like it and then adjust the Cl/SO4 balance from there.

Let me know how this turns out! I've been debating trying my pils with either Mt. Hood, Liberty, and/or Cluster for bit more american flair.

 

[Paulaner]

There's some solid advice here, but don't fall into the notion that the Floor malted bohemian pils is less modified. If you read the malt analysis sheets of all the Pils that Weyeremann does it's actually more modified than the others.

 

[mr_javi]

There's some solid advice here, but don't fall into the notion that the Floor malted bohemian pils is less modified. If you read the malt analysis sheets of all the Pils that Weyeremann does it's actually more modified than the others.

Great. Thanks. I ended up using regular Weyermann Pilsner on this batch, but I still have 8oz of Mt Hood left. I may follow this one up with the Floor Malted and see which i like better.

 

[MrPowers]

Great. Thanks. I ended up using regular Weyermann Pilsner on this batch, but I still have 8oz of Mt Hood left. I may follow this one up with the Floor Malted and see which i like better.

What was the final recipe/water profile you ended up using?

 

[mr_javi]

What was the final recipe/water profile you ended up using?

I went with the "pseudoBohemian Pils" profile in Bru N' Water. I am still very new to water adjustments so I wasn't really sure what to do. The Hydro Sample post boil tasted great!

Ca 19
Mg 4
Na 7
So4 15
Cl 34

2ml Lactic Acid to get to 5.3 theoretical (I don't have a pH meter yet).

I didn't use any Gypsum.

Recipe was exactly as written in the original post.