Moving Into A Brewtio/Brewfficiency. Electric Advice Please?

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

I've been using HBT for a while now on basic research, suggestions and methods and thought I might seek some help for my situation.

I went all-grain about three months and seven batches ago, and really enjoy the switch. But now I'm about to move into a Brewtio/Brewfficiency apartment. I really doubt that the place I'm moving into, end of next month will have a stove like the one I have now. I've been boiling 6.2 gallons down to 5.2. (my current stove is warped, but evenly warped. It almost looks like it was designed that way, so with any luck they won't notice.)

Here is what i plan on doing. Buying the Blichmann G2 boilermaker and boilcoil from greatfermentations. Also, hoping I can use it with the DIY controller kit from the StillDragon. I have a couple electronically gifted friends who love my beer and would be more than willing to help. I just want to know if I can plug it into the wall and use it? Doesn't seem very likely. I wouldn't mind moving the stove out on brew day and plugging it in back there. (of course I still don't know what oven/stove ill be getting.) And I have a propane banjo burner I'm imagining using as a stand. One of the guys at the LHBS told me to just brew on the back porch. ''That sounds very illegal and dangerous'' was my reply. I'm sure I could get away with it, and many of you probably do. But I would always feel uneasy about it and don't want that in my brew day.

But what model? If I go 10 gallons I'm sure 120v would do just fine. I really want to get the 15 gallon 240v. If I'm going to drop the cash why not go big? And if I wanted to move up to 10 gallon batches in the future I could do so with the 15 gallon right?

So I'm still at a loss as what to do. Could buy a cheaper element online and kettle locally but then I would have to find a welder or something? I work a lot so I'm willing to spend a bit more for convenience. Any advice would be great, and thanks for listening to me babble on if you have made it this far.

My current setup is a 7.5 gallon boil kettle. (hoping to convert to a mash kettle) A 10 gallon rubbermaid mash tun with false bottom grate and ball valve. 5 gallon igloo hot liquor tank (I know this isn't quite big enough but i could use the 10 gallon cooler in the future.) And a rotating fly sparge arm.

 

[BrunDog]

120V is going to be impossible it for 10 gallons (15 gallon pots) with one element. You could use two elements/circuits (2x 120V) for ~3000W and that would work. The key is they MUST be on separate circuits. Separate outlets does not mean separate circuits. Turning circuit breakers on and off will tell you.

-BD

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

This makes sense. So you think my best option is to get two 120v elements and configure them to the same controller, but plugged into separate circuits? But would I need two controllers? Sounds very doable. I already have a heavy duty extension cord.

Could I use one 120v element for my current 5 gallon batches in a 15 gallon kettle and then later down the road install another for 10 gallon batches?

 

[BrunDog]

It could be one controller but it would have to power two elements. It's not likely something you can buy off the shelf.

-BD

 

[dlaramie08]

FYI, I had a weak boil with 3000w for 7 gallons down to 5.5-6 gallons. Above that, I don't see 3000w providing enough heat for a boil to render 10 gallons of wort.

 

[doug293cz]

Plan on using 240V for your boiling, especially for anything over 5 gal. The stove in your new place will most likely be 240V and either a 30A or 50A circuit. So, if the stove is movable, you could unplug it, and plug your brew controller into the stove outlet. If you are lucky, the outlet will be GFCI protected. If not, you will need to add GFCI protection between the outlet and your controller. Either a spa panel or GFCI breaker in your control box can meet this requirement.

You will need to worry about ventilation when boiling indoors, as the amount of water vapor released is very high, and will cause mold growth if you don't vent it outdoors.

If you are going to be brewing in cramped quarters, you might consider looking into BIAB (brew in a bag/basket) to reduce the number of vessels required for brewing.

Brew on

 

[augiedoggy]

I've been using HBT for a while now on basic research, suggestions and methods and thought I might seek some help for my situation.

I went all-grain about three months and seven batches ago, and really enjoy the switch. But now I'm about to move into a Brewtio/Brewfficiency apartment. I really doubt that the place I'm moving into, end of next month will have a stove like the one I have now. I've been boiling 6.2 gallons down to 5.2. (my current stove is warped, but evenly warped. It almost looks like it was designed that way, so with any luck they won't notice.)

Here is what i plan on doing. Buying the Blichmann G2 boilermaker and boilcoil from greatfermentations. Also, hoping I can use it with the DIY controller kit from the StillDragon. I have a couple electronically gifted friends who love my beer and would be more than willing to help. I just want to know if I can plug it into the wall and use it? Doesn't seem very likely. I wouldn't mind moving the stove out on brew day and plugging it in back there. (of course I still don't know what oven/stove ill be getting.) And I have a propane banjo burner I'm imagining using as a stand. One of the guys at the LHBS told me to just brew on the back porch. ''That sounds very illegal and dangerous'' was my reply. I'm sure I could get away with it, and many of you probably do. But I would always feel uneasy about it and don't want that in my brew day.

But what model? If I go 10 gallons I'm sure 120v would do just fine. I really want to get the 15 gallon 240v. If I'm going to drop the cash why not go big? And if I wanted to move up to 10 gallon batches in the future I could do so with the 15 gallon right?

So I'm still at a loss as what to do. Could buy a cheaper element online and kettle locally but then I would have to find a welder or something? I work a lot so I'm willing to spend a bit more for convenience. Any advice would be great, and thanks for listening to me babble on if you have made it this far.

My current setup is a 7.5 gallon boil kettle. (hoping to convert to a mash kettle) A 10 gallon rubbermaid mash tun with false bottom grate and ball valve. 5 gallon igloo hot liquor tank (I know this isn't quite big enough but i could use the 10 gallon cooler in the future.) And a rotating fly sparge arm.

brewing on ones back porch is no more illegal or dangerous than grilling really with common sense... That being said I dont see myself ever brewing outside or in my garage...the electric setup I have has spoiled me.

 

[dyqik]

I don't think you'd be able to enjoy brewing 10 gal on dual 120V/15A 1500W elements without a lot of kettle insulation (although I'm sure it is just about possible with careful insulation - the 50L Braumeister is only 3200W), particularly since the kettle is also heating your strike and sparge water, and you might still struggle with dual 2kW elements without insulation if you happen to have two 20A circuits to work with.

The cheapest/easiest way to transition with your current equipment is, I think, to get a 120V/20A 2kW HotRod (1.5kW if you don't have the circuit for it) or other heatstick and use it to supplement the biggest burner on whatever your new stove is for your current 5 gal batches. The biggest burner on almost any stove is likely >5,100 BTU/hr and so will outdo a 1.5kW element. The stove burner control will let you control the boil, so you can just run the supplementary element flat out, with no controller, using the stove burner to add a controlled amount of extra heat to control the boil. Later you can use the HotRod to keep the HLT up to temperature, supplement another element in the kettle or just sell it, so it's not wasted investment.

This is how I was brewing in my apartment last winter on a standard gas stove that was a little too wimpy to get 7 gal pre-boil volume for 5.5 gal batches to boil by itself (8 gal kettle, 10 gal cooler mashtun with RIMS tube, 5 gal cooler HLT, so mostly the same as your current setup). A 2kW HotRod meant I could keep the burner at about 1/3 power to maintain a 1 gal/hour boil-off. In winter in MA, opening windows is enough to control the moisture, as it's generally so damn dry and cold. Summer probably needs something additional, but I had windows in the right places relative to the stove. I now have a house with a garage and basement (and a broken collarbone that has prevented me from brewing since moving, as I'm not allowed to lift anything), and I'll be going full 240V electric inside as soon as I can.

That will certainly let you do 5 gal batches with quick heating times, and may be enough to do a 10 gal batch. But even then, boiling 12 gal for a 10 gal batch may be too much. And your stove may not have enough clearance to fit a 15 gal kettle on it, particularly if it has one of the microwave/hood combos fitted.

Getting to full 10gal batches in a 15 gal keggle/kettle would, I think, almost certainly require a full 240V control panel and 30A supply, unless you happen to get a stove with good clearance above it for a 15 gal kettle and a powerful burner that you can supplement with a 120V/20A heatstick. You'll probably also need to up your HLT and MLT size for higher gravity batches.

As a final thought, there's nothing that says you have to work in 5 gal increments. E.g. an 8-9 gal pre-boil volume in a 10 or 11 gal kettle for a 7-8 gal batch size might fit perfectly for you (would certainly go well with your existing mash tun), as you can ferment in two 5 gal buckets or carboys, and split the batch between kegs and bottles.

 

[Rivenin]

use 2 2000w elements on 2 20amp circuits... i just ran 2 cords in my kitchen and was fine.
i ran like that until i moved into my new house and i am using 1 4500w element, an extra 500w would help, but shouldn't matter too much

 

[JoshuaW]

You can probably save some money getting a kettle from Spike's brewing. He can put a triclamp fitting on there before you receive it, and you can get an awesome kettle for a little less than a comparable Blichman. You can then go to brewhardware.com and buy their stainless steel 5500w wavy element and enclosure kit. Lastly, talk to your electricity savvy friend about making a controller. You could make one with a PID to control the element, then have him make two cables. One would go to a standard 120v outlet, the other would go to a 240v outlet. When you are using the 120v cable, it would run at 1350w, which could be used in conjunction with a stove or burner (or a lot of patience) to get to boiling. With the 240v cable, it would run at the full 5500w, and would have no problems hitting boil.

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

Whoa! Thanks for all the ideas and feed back guys, this really helps a lot. So I guess I will probably go 240w. Haven't decided if I'm going blichmann or the cheaper route yet. It would be smart to wait until I'm in the place and see what I'm working with before throwing a bunch of cash down. On the other hand I don't want to be stuck not able to brew AG for a while.
On a side note, I told a worker at the LHBS I've found that gently heating my wort to a boil reduces the chance of a boilover. I have had maybe one batch that tried to boil over but i stopped it quickly. Out of seven I feel pretty good about that.
He said maybe, but I would not get a good protein rest or something like that. Drinking on a HB now and it is much better than the top shelf store bought **** in the back of my fridge ATM.
Any thoughts?

 

[BrunDog]

One word: Fermcap.

-BD

 

[augiedoggy]

I find that with electric boil overs are totally avoidable... I set my pid to 209 and set the alarm so after that when I set it to manual from 210 to 212 I kind of babysit it and just kill the heat if I start to get one... as long as you stir well at this point you can keep an open area in the foam and a boilover doesnt occur.... I have had one in well over 50 brew sessions now.

 

[BrunDog]

I do the same as you doggie but still find that can pick the wrong initial manual setting sometimes and get a quick surprising foam-up. I find fermcap takes away any variability. It really rocks for doing starters in the flask too.

-BD

 

[dmcman73]

I find that with electric boil overs are totally avoidable... I set my pid to 209 and set the alarm so after that when I set it to manual from 210 to 212 I kind of babysit it and just kill the heat if I start to get one... as long as you stir well at this point you can keep an open area in the foam and a boilover doesnt occur.... I have had one in well over 50 brew sessions now.

If you have the right PID, you can actually decrease the power to the elements (sort of like adjusting the burner on a stove). Once I get to a rolling boil, I lower the power from 100% to about 50-60% and it keeps it from going crazy.

Also, spray bottle with cold water. Spray the boil as you see it starting to foam up and it will knock it down, works for when your making pasta too and it wants to boil over.

One last thing I do, I skim the hot break from the wort which helps avoid boil overs.

 

[augiedoggy]

If you have the right PID, you can actually decrease the power to the elements (sort of like adjusting the burner on a stove). Once I get to a rolling boil, I lower the power from 100% to about 50-60% and it keeps it from going crazy.

Also, spray bottle with cold water. Spray the boil as you see it starting to foam up and it will knock it down, works for when your making pasta too and it wants to boil over.

One last thing I do, I skim the hot break from the wort which helps avoid boil overs.

yup thats what I meant by putting it in manual mode... only I wait to do that till I hit 210 so I can leave the room and do other things until that point without worry.

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

Thanks again and yes I always use fermcap. Just 5 drops when heating to a boil for a 5 gallon batch right? O and we saw the apartment today. very nice place but i got one of those stupid microwaves over the stove. No way my kettle can fit up there. I could try removing it. The girlfriend suggested going back to mead for a while, as I've had 2 very successful batches. Boiling large amounts of wort not required. Then maybe just do AG on the banjo every other month at a friends.

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

But I do still plan on going electric in the future. Don't really have a reliable car so throwing a bunch of cash on brew gear may not be the smartest move.

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

Easiest thing ever. I just Pulled my stove out into the kitchen a bit. Ive had 5 Successful full 5 gallon all-grain batches. So im back to brewing on the stove top, but it does take a while to boil...

However, Few weeks ago some idiot left a 15 gallon SS miller-coors keg next to the dumpster. I've got big plans for that thing.

And the mead is going fantastic!

 

[JunkCatsOnThePorch]

One word: Grainfather!

A couple more: About to purchase in a couple weeks. I have talked to and read 50+ people tell me this is really the way to go. Some folks even talk about selling their whole RIMS/HERMS(I think thats how you spell it)build to brew in their kitchen with it. I cannot wait. Just pitched yeast on what will be, with any luck, my last stovetop brew! Wish me luck!!!

 

[TexasWine]

FYI, I had a weak boil with 3000w for 7 gallons down to 5.5-6 gallons. Above that, I don't see 3000w providing enough heat for a boil to render 10 gallons of wort.

Just thumbing through this thread and saw this comment. This is interesting because I have 2x1500 watt elements and have no problem with an 8 gallon boil. Actually, I turn one element to 50% when it reaches boiling, meaning that I'm boiling with nominally 2250 watts and get 1 gallon/hour boil off.

I just upgraded to a 62 quart kettle and plan on doing an occasional low ABV 10 gallon batch. Might be slower, but I don't anticipate any problems with those volumes either.

 

[dlaramie08]

Just thumbing through this thread and saw this comment. This is interesting because I have 2x1500 watt elements and have no problem with an 8 gallon boil. Actually, I turn one element to 50% when it reaches boiling, meaning that I'm boiling with nominally 2250 watts and get 1 gallon/hour boil off.

I just upgraded to a 62 quart kettle and plan on doing an occasional low ABV 10 gallon batch. Might be slower, but I don't anticipate any problems with those volumes either.

I wish you the best. It could have been ambient temperature, kettle geometry, or a decrease in actual voltage at the end which decreased my total wattage, but my boil was always a stretch of the definition of rolling. It never bothered me, I just knew I was limited by that power to 5-6.5 gallon batches.