Moving from extract to all grain

[new2brew1221]

I have been doing extract brews for a couple of years now, and wandering about the costs of going from extract to all grain. I have an outside burner, and large pot. What are the necessities of being able to make the transition? Also, how long did others do extract before making the move?

 

[slymaster]

If you have an old cooler, just add a bazooka filter and a ball valve and you have a mashtun. You can also buy a mashtun made of a round 10 gal igloo cooler. If you don't have much budget, a nylon bag and the BIAB technique in your pot could do the trick.

 

[ArcLight]

I have been doing extract brews for a couple of years now, and wandering about the costs of going from extract to all grain. I have an outside burner, and large pot. What are the necessities of being able to make the transition? Also, how long did others do extract before making the move?

The cost from moving from extract to all grain is around $20\2.
It's called BIAB (Brew in a Bag).
This is where I got my bag:
http://biabbags.webs.com/


I putzed around with Mr. Beer for 6 months, then got a real brewing equipment set and did extract for a year or two.
Now I do all grain.

What makes BIAB so easy is you heat up your water, put in the bag, pour in the grain, stir it in, then cover up the pot.
Come back in an hour, pull out the bag (containing the grain) and voila - you have your wort.

No need to spend hundreds on mash tuns and pumps. No risk of a stuck sparge.

 

[b-boy]

I moved to AG after 2 extract batches.

All you need is a cooler mash tun, a good sized pot, a mash paddle, some tubing, and a good thermometer to get started. Figure about $100-$150 depending on what you have lying around your house. The mash tun is an easy DIY, and you can save a lot of $$$.

You do need a good sized pot. I'd recommend at least 10 gallons.

 

[Bosh]

Would recommend a small batch or a partial mash for your first mash with grains. BIAB is awesome and will massively reduce your costs but managing a giant bag of grains is a bit hard the first time. Got 45% efficiency on my first BIAB batch

 

[new2brew1221]

Thanks, I had thought about taking "baby steps" and starting with BIAB and see how it goes from there.

 

[Cider123]

Thanks, I had thought about taking "baby steps" and starting with BIAB and see how it goes from there.

You may decide to start and end with BIAB. I can't offer much on traditional brewing. I switched from extract to BIAB several years ago and have no interest in switching to traditional. I have enough stuff cluttering up the house than to start with mash tuns and stuff. BIAB gives me everything I need for keeping 2-3 beers on tap at any given time.

BIABrewer.info is the best to become more knowledgeable on the process. You'll also learn there how sparging is unnecessary if you pot is big enough. Yep, that's a sparging slam:cross:

 

[Hello]

BIAB is by far the cheapest way to get to all grain. You may not move from that to a traditional three vessel system or you may. Great beer has been made using BIAB. I would start there.

 

[fivepointslow]

BIAB is a great way to start all grain but no bag is easier for me. Made a 3 tier system and it's great. The cost at first isn't too bad as long as you keep it simple.

 

[brewcat]

Maybe try a partial mash first. That's what I've been doing for a few years now. Was doing extract + steeping grains for years before that. I think I will try BIAB next or just go direct to a three vessel.

 

[jtratcliff]

If you want to baby step it on the way to traditional 3 vessel, get a paint strainer bag from a hardware store for a couple of bucks and do a few BIABs.

You can always add a cooler later. Some folks even keep the bag idea for their cooler mash tun for a MIAB type of deal.

The appeal of BIAB is the 1 pot aspect. You mash in your brew kettle, pull the bag to lauter, then boil. Some add a dunk sparge in a separate pot or a pour-over sparge.

 

[cannman]

If you've got the cash, consider going 16 gal pot. I found that my all grain efforts where about the same to make a 5 gal batch vs a 10 gal batch, just needed a bigger kettle and I can still make a 5 gal when needed.

 

[ArcLight]

Would recommend a small batch or a partial mash for your first mash with grains. BIAB is awesome and will massively reduce your costs but managing a giant bag of grains is a bit hard the first time. Got 45% efficiency on my first BIAB batch

1. make sure you get a tight crush

2. make sure you get the runnings out of the bag, whether by gravity, dunk sparge or squeezing. I use gravity and a dunk sparge.

 

[ArcLight]

You may decide to start and end with BIAB. I can't offer much on traditional brewing. I switched from extract to BIAB several years ago and have no interest in switching to traditional. I have enough stuff cluttering up the house than to start with mash tuns and stuff. BIAB gives me everything I need for keeping 2-3 beers on tap at any given time.

BIABrewer.info is the best to become more knowledgeable on the process. You'll also learn there how sparging is unnecessary if you pot is big enough. Yep, that's a sparging slam:cross:

I find that a dunk sparge adds a fair amount of additional fermentables. And it's not much additional work since I use gravity to drain the bag.

I could have mashed in a full volume, but the dunk sparge gave better results.


You dont need to go to BIABrewer.info, HBT has all you need to know, and plenty of experienced BIABers to ask questions.

 

[MindenMan]

If you want to try BIAB, the least expensive way is to go to the Home Improvement Store and buy a two-pack of 5 gallon size paint strainers. I have a 24qt mash kettle I use when brewing. I heat the water, add the grains, stir, cover and walk away for 30 minutes, stir, cover and walk away for 30 minutes more. What I do next is different; I pull the grain bag from the pot and place it in a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a false bottom and a spigot. While I am sparging in the bucket, I am heating my 10 gallon BK with the first runnings over medium-low heat and adding the sparge runnings as it is ready. I generally use between 7.5 and 8 gallons of water in total. My efficiency is always at least 75% and sometimes as high as 80%. I do the extra step in the bucket because I have a bad back, and dunking a bag of wet grain gets too heavy, too quickly.

 

[Cider123]

You dont need to go to BIABrewer.info, HBT has all you need to know, and plenty of experienced BIABers to ask questions.

Yes, Like telling newbies that dunk sparging is more effective simply because you think it is.

I suggested BIABrewer.info because they list a great deal of information on BIAB based on scientific experimentation, as they do with the sparge/no-sparge concept. I learn a lot here at HBT, but the other site offered more details on BIAB that are based on fact rather than opinion disguised as fact.

 

[ArcLight]

Yes, Like telling newbies that dunk sparging is more effective simply because you think it is.

I suggested BIABrewer.info because they list a great deal of information on BIAB based on scientific experimentation, as they do with the sparge/no-sparge concept. I learn a lot here at HBT, but the other site offered more details on BIAB that are based on fact rather than opinion disguised as fact.

Homebrewtalk has a lot of expert advice, and a lot of opinion, as do all websites. I'm not knocking BIABrewer.info, and I used it years ago when geting into BIAB, before it was popular here. But BIABrewer.info doesn't have a lock on BIAB knowledge. There is great BIAB knowledge right here , you don't need to go elsewhere.

As for dunk sparge helping, yes it's a scientific fact that it does.
I used my refractometer to compare no sparge with dunk sparge, and did get a noticeble higher gravity with the dunk sparge. The more grain you use, the more you will benefit from teh dunk sparge.

Do you have to use a dunk sparge? Of course not. You will get a little less fermentable, and you may be satisfied with that.
I'm not, because a dunk sparge is so easy. Your wort is heating up anyway, and the dunk, stir, and bag raise take all of 5 minutes. I've found that the dunk sparge is very easy and increases my yield by a lot more than 1 pound of extra grain.


As a side note, while I haven't been active on BIABrewer.info for years, I have sitting in my inbox there a message from one of the experienced BIABErs, from 2012:
>.ArcLight, You are correct, that sparge on high gravity will help.

The general philosophy that many there have is make you brew day as simple as possible. No squeezing or dunk sparging, just use an extra pound of grain.

 

[new2brew1221]

Wow, there's a lot of info coming in on the BIAB topic. I definitely need to read up on the process and check out the BIABrewer.info website too. It does seem like that is the way I want to go. I have had good luck with doing extract and steeping grains, but ready to move on and get better at the whole home brew process.

 

[MindenMan]

Hey!, ArcLight and Cider123! Please stop the pissing contest will you both? Come on, okay? In both your experiences you are both right, and you are both entitled to your own opinions. So in the future will you please try to be as nice to each other as possible? This is my "home site", and I made that decision based on the lack of giant egos and back-biting that are so prevalent elsewhere. Is it possible if you want to be verbally ugly to someone, will you use PM's and not open forums? Thank you in advance. MM

 

[SatanPrinceOfDarkness]

Would recommend a small batch or a partial mash for your first mash with grains. BIAB is awesome and will massively reduce your costs but managing a giant bag of grains is a bit hard the first time. Got 45% efficiency on my first BIAB batch

I got 34% efficiency on my first full size-BIAB, but I dialed it in on the second and got 64%.

I'm still not quite sure how to squeeze the bag without burning myself.

 

[ahariton]

Another BIAB'er here.

I had been brewing outside, so already had a bayou burner.

I happened upon a used keg on craigslist for $40.

Total cost for converting the keg into a keggle was around $100 for the parts from bargainfittings.com, including a 3-piece valve, thermometer, dip tube and the weldless bulkhead fittings. There's a great thread on doing the conversion if you do a search.

Another $35 or so for a BIAB bag and you're all set for being able to do full-volume batches in the keggle.

In my case, I can't think of a single reason to move to a three vessel system. BIAB has worked perfectly for me at a fraction of the cost.

 

[elkshadow]

.

 

[MindenMan]

OP, what size pot do you already have? Truth be told, you really don't need a plastic bucket with a false bottom to be able to get the last of the sugar rinsed out of your grain. I built my Zapap tun (use Google) very early on, and found out my modified BIAB method really saves on my back and improves my efficiency too.

Insulating the pot: I put a trash bag over the outside of my pot as a lark one day and then slid a zipped jacket over the outside. The heat loss was basically zero; okay it was less than 2 degrees in 90 minutes, and I used what I had on hand, and still do it the same way today.

 

[elkshadow]

.

 

[MindenMan]

Damn elkshadow is it time to start another rant? I do not believe you were suggesting the OP try fly sparge in buckets. Actually, I wasn't technically, suggesting the OP, fly sparge in buckets either. (emphasis, intentionally added) There is nothing wrong with fly sparging in buckets; 10 years ago it was perfectly fine then too. I have a very limited amount of equipment: a 22qt triple bottom pot, a 30qt aluminum pot, a 40qt aluminum pot, and a couple of 5 gallon buckets. My 5 gallon paint strainer bags only fit my 22qt pot and my buckets, so you know why I do what I do.

 

[fimpster]

I did extract with specialty grains or partial extract and mini mash with stove top partial boils in a 5 gallon pot for 14 years.

When I moved to all grain my initial investment was around $350 in equipment; 16 gal Bayou kettle with thermometer and ball valve, Bayou burner, a 10 gallon round cooler with fittings, ball valve and bazooka screen for mlt. My old 5 gallon pot served as hlt and got its own ball valve a nd I already had a homemade copper chiller. (which I have since upgraded)

The savings each brew day average 12-15$ by buying grain instead of extract. At this point I've easily recovered the initial investment based on the volume I have brewed. Although you can keep adding more stuff like pumps and dedicated brewing stands a whirlpool setup, rims/herms, and on and on... that can add way up.

But depending on how often you brew, you may be able to recoup the cost of going to a simple 3 vessel system fairly quickly. For me it took only 8 or 9 months.

 

[MindenMan]

fimpster just reminded me why I also went from extract to AG; the cost per batch. I don't remember the last time I compared extract to AG money wise, but it was at least $12.00 per batch. Add that $12.00 to the $8.00 I no longer spend every batch on yeast, (I use a mother starter) and my last grain purchase at my LHBS was $14.00. My 22qt stock pot was a gift from the wife, so I don't add that to my equipment cost. A 40 qt pot was $52.00 delivered, a close-out deal on a new 30qt turkey fryer setup for $20.00, IC copper was $27.00 plus tax, and I already had an extra chest freezer so I just built a STC-1000 controller to use with it. I will say the best thing that every happened to my home brew is and was temperature controlled fermentation. Maybe someday when I don't have teen-age daughter to support in college, I may buy some more gear to simplify my brew days.