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Most critical steps to produce the best tasting all grain beer?

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I still, respectfully, disagree. The bacterium, pediococcus, is known for forming diacetyl in beer. Beers that, otherwise, seem good. This is a sanitation issue. While I agree, that most people know that sanitation is important to prevent a total dumper... I am not convinced that all home brewers (and even commercial brewers) understand that subpar sanitation can (and does) make subtle changes to their brew that can make it less than their best. Last summer I had a pale ale, from a small craft brewery, that had obvious diacetyl aroma and flavor. This possibly could have been a fermentation issue. But, it could have, just as easily, been a sanitation issue.

Funny you say this since I'm battling an, apparent, diacetyl issue which forms a week or so after kegging. Only with dipas. Stouts, imperial stouts/RIS, ipas, and hard Lemonaids are clean. I use the same cleanliness/sanitation procedures for all brews. IDK...

In reference to other posts, I temp control all beer brews. This next dipa attempt will be cold crashed, my first attempt, starting tomorrow. This, I hopes, is the nail in the coffin. Would love get to point where I'm just working on recipes...
 
Funny you say this since I'm battling an, apparent, diacetyl issue which forms a week or so after kegging. Only with dipas. Stouts, imperial stouts/RIS, ipas, and hard Lemonaids are clean. I use the same cleanliness/sanitation procedures for all brews. IDK...

In reference to other posts, I temp control all beer brews. This next dipa attempt will be cold crashed, my first attempt, starting tomorrow. This, I hopes, is the nail in the coffin. Would love get to point where I'm just working on recipes...

That is interesting. Let us know if/ when you figure it out.

Mike

:mug:
 
Top five. .

1 Cleaning / Sanitizing
2 Fermentation Control
3 Happy and healthy yeast army
4 Water Chemistry / Water knowledge
 
1. Water chemistry - beer is mostly water, why wouldn't you treat it with the same diligence as the grains/hops you choose?

2. Keeping grain bills simple - I think people try to out-think the room too often with the grain bill. Less is usually more.

3. Ferm temperature control - Fermenting most beers at room temperature is a big no-no
 
The real most critical steps are:

Recipe (no one wants to say it, but yeah)

Fermentation temp control, usually aim for the ultra low end of the yeast's temp range, or below, and support yeast growth and fermentation at that ultra low temp through pure O2 oxygenation, more than the recommended number of yeast cells to start, and ramping the temp as yeast activity slows.

For the actual all grain part, get a mill and mill your grains just before mashing. Use good water. Know your pH. Adjust your pH if it is not in the range you want it, you can use acidulated malt or lactic acid, or use RO water and build your water profile to fit your needs.

Efficiency is good, but it's not part of the best tasting all grain beer discussion. Consistency is more important so that you can make predictable adjustments from one batch to the next. This is where having your own mill is pretty important.

And if you do all that and your beer gets infected...look into your sanitation practices. And in case you, a person looking to make "the best tasting all grain beer" don't already know, you need to follow basic sanitation practices on the cold side of brewing because you have a substance that will be stored for a considerable amount of time and can develop bacterial infections if you're not careful. Not really the difference between mediocre all grain and the very best all grain at all. Mostly the difference between drinkable beer and undrinkable beer, so since drinkable beer falls into the "best tasting" beer category, yes, you do need to be sanitary.

I am with you most of the way - recipe is super-important, so are basic sanitation and temp control.

But - having your own mill? Also you don't really need to mill "just before brewing". Milled grain doesn't really go bad overnight.

Pure O2 oxygenation and pH adjustments? More than recommended yeast cells?

You can make a fantastic beers using your LHBS mill, oxygenating by 1) making a started and 2) shaking the fermenter.

You can make a starter of active, healthy yeast and pitch the recommended amount.

It's important to know your water and its weak points, but I suspect for most people just cutting the water with some RO water is sufficient to get 95% there. If you understand pH adjustments and can do them with confidence - good for you, but for the most part they can easily backfire for most people, who would struggle with even calibrating pH meter on daily basis, never mind figuring out the buffer properties of their water with some salts and acids added.

I would say freshness (or proper storage) of hops is much more important than freshness of milled grain. Simply filtering your water through carbon filter (to remove chlorine) is a major step that most brewers I know don't even do.

Once one has basic sanitation techniques (like diluting starsan in water at proper concentration and dipping/washing everything in it for 30 seconds), proper post-boil beer transfer skills are much more important than whatever gains you get from extra-sanitation efforts or worrying about trub getting into the fermenter or tiny bit of hot-side areation.

Making a fresh, active, oxygenated starter instead of repitching on a yeast cake full of dead yeast makes a lot more sense to me.

Good quality ingredients, interesting and well-designed recipes, yeast health and proper (fairly basic) tools and techniques, plus some good amount of caring, thinking and understanding the processes involved will go a long way.
 
I am with you most of the way - recipe is super-important, so are basic sanitation and temp control.

But - having your own mill? Also you don't really need to mill "just before brewing". Milled grain doesn't really go bad overnight.

Pure O2 oxygenation and pH adjustments? More than recommended yeast cells?

You can make a fantastic beers using your LHBS mill, oxygenating by 1) making a started and 2) shaking the fermenter.

You can make a starter of active, healthy yeast and pitch the recommended amount.

It's important to know your water and its weak points, but I suspect for most people just cutting the water with some RO water is sufficient to get 95% there. If you understand pH adjustments and can do them with confidence - good for you, but for the most part they can easily backfire for most people, who would struggle with even calibrating pH meter on daily basis, never mind figuring out the buffer properties of their water with some salts and acids added.

I would say freshness (or proper storage) of hops is much more important than freshness of milled grain. Simply filtering your water through carbon filter (to remove chlorine) is a major step that most brewers I know don't even do.

Once one has basic sanitation techniques (like diluting starsan in water at proper concentration and dipping/washing everything in it for 30 seconds), proper post-boil beer transfer skills are much more important than whatever gains you get from extra-sanitation efforts or worrying about trub getting into the fermenter or tiny bit of hot-side areation.

Making a fresh, active, oxygenated starter instead of repitching on a yeast cake full of dead yeast makes a lot more sense to me.

Good quality ingredients, interesting and well-designed recipes, yeast health and proper (fairly basic) tools and techniques, plus some good amount of caring, thinking and understanding the processes involved will go a long way.

I agree with you. I was pointing out methods that help to brew beer below the manufacturer's recommended fermentation temps. I brew most of my beers colder than the temps listed by the manufacturer.

I don't think there is some sort of perfect way to brew beer. I do it my way. It works for me.
 
I agree with you. I was pointing out methods that help to brew beer below the manufacturer's recommended fermentation temps. I brew most of my beers colder than the temps listed by the manufacturer.

I don't think there is some sort of perfect way to brew beer. I do it my way. It works for me.

Actually as I read my own post (posted late last night) I think I agree with you even more!

Obviously controlling water pH and mineral content will benefit the taste of the final beer a great deal - we all know this. Controlling your own milling and other processes will make a big difference as well - make efficiency more consistent/predictable and avoid stuck sparging.

it's just that in my personal priority list, I feel a lot of people neglect more basic practices, and obsess over more complex practices that should only be pursued once 99% of other parameters are dialed in.

I think you hit the nail on the head about importance of understanding the recipes. I am re-reading "Mastering Homebrew" by Randy Mosher and it's amazing how well he explains the basics of recipe building. Everyone ought to read that book.

I will bet that 95% of home brewers just blindly follow some random recipes they found online without even thinking about what that crystal/caramel malts are there for (I know this because I was one of them, and maybe still am!)

Never mind Rye, Wheat, sugar or "candi sugar", Pilsner vs. Pale Ale vs. Vienna vs. Munich Malts.

Same applies to hops, to a much greater degree, and yeast.
 
Actually as I read my own post (posted late last night) I think I agree with you even more!

Obviously controlling water pH and mineral content will benefit the taste of the final beer a great deal - we all know this. Controlling your own milling and other processes will make a big difference as well - make efficiency more consistent/predictable and avoid stuck sparging.

it's just that in my personal priority list, I feel a lot of people neglect more basic practices, and obsess over more complex practices that should only be pursued once 99% of other parameters are dialed in.

I think you hit the nail on the head about importance of understanding the recipes. I am re-reading "Mastering Homebrew" by Randy Mosher and it's amazing how well he explains the basics of recipe building. Everyone ought to read that book.

I will bet that 95% of home brewers just blindly follow some random recipes they found online without even thinking about what that crystal/caramel malts are there for (I know this because I was one of them, and maybe still am!)

Never mind Rye, Wheat, sugar or "candi sugar", Pilsner vs. Pale Ale vs. Vienna vs. Munich Malts.

Same applies to hops, to a much greater degree, and yeast.

I was actually thinking about my response to you today and thought about coming back to say that milling your own grain is a good thing in a lot of ways, but it's not this big thing that makes your beer better all by itself. Crushed grain isn't going bad in a day or two, or even in a week or two. Obviously freshness is good, but I don't think it makes a noticeable difference unless the crushed grains are several months old. Having control over your crush is a good thing, no doubt, but if you're dialed in for your LHBS crush, and that's working for you then you're good there.

I like having my own mill. It's one of my favorite pieces of brewing equipment. Being able to buy sacks of base grain has paid for my mill several times over. And being in control of that part of the process is something I can't imagine going without. But, I realize it's more about control and much much less about quality.
 
But you have to keep in mind that not everybody knows the difference between the words clean, sanitized and sterile. It is such an important part of the home brew process. Many years ago, things were probably only clean. And, I bet it made the beer taste different than good beer does, today.

Mike

Meh. I stopped stressing about sanitation a long time ago. Sure I wash my stuff and rinse my fermenter with sanitizer before fermentation but thats about it. I'm finding that those yeast thingies are pretty fierce and tend to kill off most other stuff in the beer. It's actually pretty hard to screw up a batch. Much more important are mash conditions (temp/ph) and ferm temps. Also, pitching the right amount of good healthy yeast is a must.
 
I was actually thinking about my response to you today and thought about coming back to say that milling your own grain is a good thing in a lot of ways, but it's not this big thing that makes your beer better all by itself. Crushed grain isn't going bad in a day or two, or even in a week or two. Obviously freshness is good, but I don't think it makes a noticeable difference unless the crushed grains are several months old. Having control over your crush is a good thing, no doubt, but if you're dialed in for your LHBS crush, and that's working for you then you're good there.

I like having my own mill. It's one of my favorite pieces of brewing equipment. Being able to buy sacks of base grain has paid for my mill several times over. And being in control of that part of the process is something I can't imagine going without. But, I realize it's more about control and much much less about quality.

any time you can control ANY variable over your brew process is a good thing. Including milling. My only point is that at least a dozen other factors would have to take precedence over milling - factors that are often ignored.

We all need to prioritize at some point and milling is not among the top 10 things that affect my brewing, especially if I am willing to pay $1 extra for base malt to boost my efficiency up 10% or more. And any problem that you are investing in $100's and that can be solved by paying $1 extra is not worth worrying much about, in my opinion.
 
it's already been said but here is mine.

water chem/mash pH.
proper pitch rates
ferm temp
dialing in your system so you get the correct volumes. I use to think that it was ok to have 5.5gal in my fermenter when my recipe was for 5gal...my gravity was always low. if you want 5.5gal in your fermenter, make sure your recipe reflects the increase in volume (this may not be the case for all brewers, but in my case making sure I had Beersmith set up to reflect my equipment/processes was key to hitting my numbers). So if I'm making a 5 gal batch...5gal goes into my fermenter.
 

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