Monster mill or barley crusher?

[thomasben]

What drill would people recoomend using with monster mills. I'm not very savvy with these types of things but how much power is adequate to operate the rollers?

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm using the 18v Delwalt 1/2" chuck cordless drill/driver/hammerdrill to power mine... Does a top notch job too. On a full battery charge, it has no issue going through 30-40# of grain (combined grain bills of myself and my brew-buddy). I wouldn't go with anything less than an 18v 1/2" chuck cordless drill. For a corded drill, one that has a good speed range (you want something with easy control of the lower speed range), and 1/2" chuck should do the job. I think it's easier to use a cordless drill, personally.

I do plan on motorizing mine eventually (maybe this year even) just to make it easier to run.

I would also recommend doing what you can to get the speed in the 150-250rpm range on the drill. I try to run mine in the 200-250rpm range.

 

[phoenixs4r]

Look into right angle drills. Electricians use them to drill holes through studs. They have a MASSIVE amount of torque and run at about 500 rpm. Most people recommend 200 so if you run it half way you should be fine.

I ran a simple 3/8" chuck drill to power my mill before I put a pulley/belt system on it, and it sucked hard. If you tried to feather the throttle it ran out of torque.

 

[ShinyBuddha]

I looked at all the mills and it was close between the monster and crankenstien...went with the monster. the malt mill and barley crusher just didn't stand up to what I was looking for. Buy direct.

 

[Wreck99]

I have a Ryobi 18v 3/8" chuck drill I think I can use to power this temporarily. It says "No Load Speed: 0-350/0-1300 rpm. 2 speed gearbox and 24 position clutch for high torque application."

What type of motor would you need to get to power this thing, without going overboard?

 

[Golddiggie]

I have a Ryobi 18v 3/8" chuck drill I think I can use to power this temporarily. It says "No Load Speed: 0-350/0-1300 rpm. 2 speed gearbox and 24 position clutch for high torque application."

What type of motor would you need to get to power this thing, without going overboard?

My MM2-2.0 has a 1/2" shaft, so you NEED a drill with a 1/2" chuck. The small 3/8" chuck won't be able to get it's jaws around the large shaft on my mill.

I already had my drill before I started brewing. I tend to go bigger than I would probably need for most tasks when selecting tools. Especially with drills.

I've not owned/used a Ryobi drill before, since I have a DeWalt. Keep in mind, you'll be running the drill, under load (fairly heavy load at that) for the time it takes to go through the grain. I suspect I could crush an entire sack on a single battery charge with my drill. I've not [yet] given that a try.

 

[Wreck99]

I looked at all the mills and it was close between the monster and crankenstien...went with the monster. the malt mill and barley crusher just didn't stand up to what I was looking for. Buy direct.

I don't know about buying direct. MonsterMill is expensive! I listed some deals I found earlier in the thread to save money for anyone looking to get one of these.

 

[Wreck99]

My MM2-2.0 has a 1/2" shaft, so you NEED a drill with a 1/2" chuck. The small 3/8" chuck won't be able to get it's jaws around the large shaft on my mill.

I already had my drill before I started brewing. I tend to go bigger than I would probably need for most tasks when selecting tools. Especially with drills.

I've not owned/used a Ryobi drill before, since I have a DeWalt. Keep in mind, you'll be running the drill, under load (fairly heavy load at that) for the time it takes to go through the grain. I suspect I could crush an entire sack on a single battery charge with my drill. I've not [yet] given that a try.

If it comes down to buying a drill for this, then I'll be in the market for a motor. I'm perfectly happy with the drill I have for other things...I don't need 2 drills. Thanks for pointing this out to me

 

[Golddiggie]

I don't know about buying direct. MonsterMill is expensive! I listed some deals I found earlier in the thread to save money for anyone looking to get one of these.

Just make sure that those deals are units the vendors have in stock.

Something else to consider... With buying direct, you can get the mill customized. Such as going with the different roller material, going with the larger diameter or adding the hopper extension to it. With Farmhouse, you have ONE option set for the mill (no additional options, just the base 1.5" roller mills plus base and first hopper stage)... I wouldn't do that. Mostly because I wanted the additional features included in my own Monster Mill.

I have found the hopper extension to be a HUGE asset for my milling. Especially since I have recipes that easily fill the base hopper. Without the extension I would have to stop and refill the hopper and then start milling again. Not something I enjoyed doing with the BC, so I made sure it wasn't going to happen too soon with the MM2-2.0 mill. Eventually, I could see having more than 39# for a single brew/recipe. By then, though I'll be in a better position and have the mill with a motor on it and be able to refill the mill easily.

 

[Wreck99]

Good point, didn't consider the customization factor of going direct. I'm between the MM2 and MM3. Price is a concern for me, SWMBO will have a fit if I spend too much on another gadget. I've already convinced her that I want to buy grain in bulk to cut costs so I need a mill.

Trying to get as good as I can get around $200 if possible. I mean at this point, anything is better than going to the LHBS to get grains milled lol. Sounds like just about anything I buy will work, but I'd hate to see myself upgrading shortly down the road

Is there really a big difference between the 1.5" and 2" rollers?
Does hardened steel somehow increase efficiency because its heavier, or is that just for durability?

If there's no huge difference, I might just get the MM3 1.5 w/ 3/8 drive shaft to fit my drill and a hopper. That's $219 direct, compared to $430 with all the bells and whistles (which don't get me wrong, I'd love to have!)

 

[ShinyBuddha]

No need to go mm3. I actually emailed the company with my expected usage (180 lbs of grain/yr) and they suggested the mm2.

 

[Wreck99]

I heard they have scratch and dents too.

 

[Golddiggie]

Good point, didn't consider the customization factor of going direct. I'm between the MM2 and MM3. Price is a concern for me, SWMBO will have a fit if I spend too much on another gadget. I've already convinced her that I want to buy grain in bulk to cut costs so I need a mill.

I would go with the MM2-2.0 here. Unless you plan on going through many hundreds/thousands of pounds per year that is.

Trying to get as good as I can get around $200 if possible. I mean at this point, anything is better than going to the LHBS to get grains milled lol. Sounds like just about anything I buy will work, but I'd hate to see myself upgrading shortly down the road

Is there really a big difference between the 1.5" and 2" rollers?

From what I've experienced between the BC rollers (1.25" diameter) and my MM2-2.0 (2" diameter) the crush is MUCH better. Seems more even when you examine the grain once it goes through the mill.

Does hardened steel somehow increase efficiency because its heavier, or is that just for durability?

I don't believe the hardening increases the mass of the rollers, just improves wear resistance by a healthy margin. I expect these rollers to go through tens of thousands of pounds of grain before they have any issue.

I spoke with the man from Monster before placing my order. I plan/intend to be increasing my batch sizes over the next few/several years and wanted to be sure the mill would be up to the task. Plus, since both my brew-buddy and I use my mill on brew day (easier to setup just one mill) we're already sending a lot of grain through it. I've already had brew days with almost 30# of grain for just my batch. Plus his 15-20# of grain goes through it too. I swear I can almost hear the monster taunting us. Asking if that's all we got...

If there's no huge difference, I might just get the MM3 1.5 w/ 3/8 drive shaft to fit my drill and a hopper. That's $219 direct, compared to $430 with all the bells and whistles (which don't get me wrong, I'd love to have!)

The mill I ordered from Monster (MM2-2.0) has the hardened option (+$60) as well as the base and hopper (+$40) and hopper extension (+$25). Total, as that stands today, is $296. IMO, it's well worth the extra $77 over the base model. Basically, I expect to NEVER need to replace this mill.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I'm not sure about monster mills, but I know that the crankenstein site, I can order spare rollers if mine wear out. Maybe something to look in to

 

[Wreck99]

Very helpful feedback Golddiggie, thank you! Hopefully I can put in an order on Friday.

 

[joety]

I have a Ryobi 18v 3/8" chuck drill I think I can use to power this temporarily. It says "No Load Speed: 0-350/0-1300 rpm. 2 speed gearbox and 24 position clutch for high torque application."

What type of motor would you need to get to power this thing, without going overboard?

I use a 3/4 hp motor I picked up on EBay for 50 bucks. It's geared down with a 10 inch shiv. Works phenomenal.

 

[two_one_seven]

Rebel Mill nothing else even compares.

 

[Golddiggie]

Rebel Mill nothing else even compares.

Actually, looks like a lower version of a Monster Mill to me... Smaller base hopper, smaller hopper extension, no idea on roller spec's (just looked at the page on their site too) to name just a few items.

While it may be a solid mill, and far superior to a BC, it can't compare (IMO) with a MM2-2.0. Especially as I have mine configured. I can mill 19# more grain with the extension on my hopper than the rebel can (at one filling).

If they (Rebel) wants to compare with the other top end mill makers, they need to include more spec's on their page for the mill. Not looking to bash Rebel, since I like them for a good number of other things. I just don't see their one mill comparing with what Monster offers. Perhaps with C&S, but not MM...

 

[Wreck99]

I use a 3/4 hp motor I picked up on EBay for 50 bucks. It's geared down with a 10 inch shiv. Works phenomenal.

I'm hearing that you don't want a go faster than 200rpm, is this right?

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm hearing that you don't want a go faster than 200rpm, is this right?

Monster has it posted on their site... The way they spec out the speed it seems more like 150-200rpm.

RPM
What RPMs should I run my mill at?

The best speed to run all of the drill driven mills at is around 150-250 rpms. Does it have to be exactly 200 rpms? NO WAY. A range of 100-300 is fine, and if you are willing to have a little more flour, then you can run it a little faster. I generally tell folks to run it as slowly as your drill will run it without stalling plus a little more. It usually takes a little more torque to get the mill going than to keep it going, so you will have to give it some more power to start the mill, and then slow it down once you are milling. You should experiment with faster/slower speeds and see what it does to your grain.

Motorizing
How can I motorize my mill?

This is a very complicated answer. We recommend you use at least a 1/2 HP motor for our small 1.5" diameter roller mills, and 1 HP for our larger 2" diameter roller mills. Use a capacitor start motor if possible. They have much higher starting torque and should be able to start milling after the hopper is loaded. If you don't have a capacitor start motor, you may just have to have the mill running when you load the hopper. Get the RPMs down as much as possible. To do this you will need to use as slow a motor as you can get, and put a very small pulley on it, and put as large a pulley as possible on the mill. The biggest problem with this approach is that the pulleys end up being very large.

Most AC motors run at the slowest speed of 1725RPMs. This means that you need to reduce the speed by a minimum factor of 10. So you will need a mill pulley that is 10 times the diameter of the pulley on the motor to get down to 172.5 RPMs assuming your motor runs 1725 RPMs. When using pulleys to drive the mill it may be preferable to widen one flat on your mill's drive shaft using a metal file. The flats are designed for drill driving, and will work better with a pulley setscrew if they're wider. This is easily accompished using a metal file with the drive roller held firmly in your bench vice.

Pulleys to complete a motorization project are readily available from several sources including Grainger, and McMaster Carr. Look for a small pulley with a diameter of 1.5" or less, and a large pulley to mount on the mill of at least 10" with 12-14" being preferable. Worth noting is that usually the pulleys will have different pitch diameters depending upon the width of belt you use. If you use a narrower belt, it will ride lower down in the pulley groove, and effectively reduce the diameter of the pulley.

There was a very informative article written in BYO a while back, that has all the specific information you will need to complete your project. We worked directly with the author to provide accurate information. Gear reduction motors are also an option but they are usually out of the price range of most home brewers. If you can find one used for a good price, I have heard of several folks using them sucessfully, but you must make sure you have enough torque to drive the mill, or it will stall while grinding.

 

[tryn2brew]

I just purchased the Rebel Mill, but have not tried it yet. The plan is next weekend. Looks like a nice mill, and I have not seen any negative reviews (yet). They are having trouble keeping up with demand, and mentioned they are looking at bringing a new supplier online to meet demand. Mine only took a little over a week to arrive.

 

[phoenixs4r]

I'm hearing that you don't want a go faster than 200rpm, is this right?

Monster has it posted on their site... The way they spec out the speed it seems more like 150-200rpm.

RPM
What RPMs should I run my mill at?

The best speed to run all of the drill driven mills at is around 150-250 rpms. Does it have to be exactly 200 rpms? NO WAY. A range of 100-300 is fine, and if you are willing to have a little more flour, then you can run it a little faster. I generally tell folks to run it as slowly as your drill will run it without stalling plus a little more. It usually takes a little more torque to get the mill going than to keep it going, so you will have to give it some more power to start the mill, and then slow it down once you are milling. You should experiment with faster/slower speeds and see what it does to your grain.

Motorizing
How can I motorize my mill?

This is a very complicated answer. We recommend you use at least a 1/2 HP motor for our small 1.5" diameter roller mills, and 1 HP for our larger 2" diameter roller mills. Use a capacitor start motor if possible. They have much higher starting torque and should be able to start milling after the hopper is loaded. If you don't have a capacitor start motor, you may just have to have the mill running when you load the hopper. Get the RPMs down as much as possible. To do this you will need to use as slow a motor as you can get, and put a very small pulley on it, and put as large a pulley as possible on the mill. The biggest problem with this approach is that the pulleys end up being very large.

Most AC motors run at the slowest speed of 1725RPMs. This means that you need to reduce the speed by a minimum factor of 10. So you will need a mill pulley that is 10 times the diameter of the pulley on the motor to get down to 172.5 RPMs assuming your motor runs 1725 RPMs. When using pulleys to drive the mill it may be preferable to widen one flat on your mill's drive shaft using a metal file. The flats are designed for drill driving, and will work better with a pulley setscrew if they're wider. This is easily accompished using a metal file with the drive roller held firmly in your bench vice.

Pulleys to complete a motorization project are readily available from several sources including Grainger, and McMaster Carr. Look for a small pulley with a diameter of 1.5" or less, and a large pulley to mount on the mill of at least 10" with 12-14" being preferable. Worth noting is that usually the pulleys will have different pitch diameters depending upon the width of belt you use. If you use a narrower belt, it will ride lower down in the pulley groove, and effectively reduce the diameter of the pulley.

There was a very informative article written in BYO a while back, that has all the specific information you will need to complete your project. We worked directly with the author to provide accurate information. Gear reduction motors are also an option but they are usually out of the price range of most home brewers. If you can find one used for a good price, I have heard of several folks using them sucessfully, but you must make sure you have enough torque to drive the mill, or it will stall while grinding.

Also see: http://www.byo.com/component/resource/article/1171-motorize-your-grain-mill-projects

If you want to go the sheave route

 

[Wreck99]

Is there an easy way to measure your actual RPMs once you get everything hooked up? Just to confirm you are running at the speed you're trying to achieve.

 

[Kmcogar]

I recently got a crankandstein 2s. I've only used it twice but it works like a champ so far. The drill hooks right up to it. I got the barebones model and made my own hopper. I ordered it from brewmasters warehouse for $78 flat.

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0102165/crankandstein-2s

 

[phoenixs4r]

Is there an easy way to measure your actual RPMs once you get everything hooked up? Just to confirm you are running at the speed you're trying to achieve.

For the sheave system? Yes, math.

 

[Kmcogar]

I recently got a crankandstein 2s. I've only used it twice but it works like a champ so far. The drill hooks right up to it. I got the barebones model and made my own hopper. I ordered it from brewmasters warehouse for $78 flat.

http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0102165/crankandstein-2s

Oh here's a video of my crankandstein 2s at work

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

[Wreck99]

Nice setup Kmcogar...and cheap! Which is music to my ears

How does the Crankandstein fair up against a monster mill? Anyone try both side by side?

 

[Golddiggie]

Nice setup Kmcogar...and cheap! Which is music to my ears

How does the Crankandstein fair up against a monster mill? Anyone try both side by side?

My brew-buddy has a C&S mill... The rollers are shorter, and smaller diameter than mine. Their mill also comes without hopper or base, unless you add it (not sure if you can get those from C&S or not).

We did do a few brew-days where I used mine, and he used his. Suffice to say we just use mine now.

 

[Wreck99]

Good to know. Not trying to knock anyone's setup. Just trying to weigh all the options. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Wreck99]

Hey Golddiggie, can you post a pic of your mill setup?