Mixed up my ingredients............question

[BIGREDIOWAN]

So I bought a Cream Ale Kit and a Summer Lemon Saison kit from Austin Homebrew Supply a few weeks ago. I brewed the Cream Ale yesterday and I'm getting ready to do the Saison here in a little bit. The ingredients for both are as follows and I'm highlighting the areas I changed on accident and due to no choice as far as the yeast goes. Would appreciate your opinions on what I've done here.

Cream Ale:
Muslin bag: 8 oz 2-Row Malt, 4 oz Crystal 40L Malt, 12 oz Cara Pils Malt (Soaked for 25 minutes at 155)
6 lb Extra Light DME-Accidently used 3 lbs instead
8 oz Malto Dextrin
1 oz Willamette hops at 60 minutes
1 oz Fuggle hops at 5 minutes
Used Safale US-05 yeast instead of white labs Cream Ale Blend 080 that came with kit because yeast was dead due to ice pack being hot and our temps being above 100 for awhile and the yeast sat on my doorstep all day in above 100 degree temps. Starter never took off.

OG was supposed to be 1.052 and I got 1.051 corrected for temp to 1.052, so right on. Sitting in ferm chamber right at 66 degrees right now.

Summer Lemon Saison:
Muslin bag: 1/2 lb Belgian Pilsner Malt, 1/2 lb White Wheat, 1/2 lb Aromatic Malt, 1/2 lb Flaked Wheat. (25 minutes at 155)
4 lbs Wheat DME
6 lbs Extra Light DME-Should've used 3 lbs Extra Light DME
2 oz Tradition hops at 60 minutes
2 Tbsp. Fresh Lemon Zest at 15 minutes
1 oz Hersbrucker hops at 5 Minutes
Wyeast Belgian Saison 3724 yeast, had White Labs Saison Ale Blend 568, but it was dead due to heat as well.

My question basically pertains to the switch that I did with the DME on accident. I didn't use enough in the first batch and I'd be using too much in the second batch. I don't have a scale to cut the DME in half so I was just planning on using it all. Will both brews turn out decent based on what you're seeing here?

 

[aomagman78]

You're going to need more DME in the first batch if you want much flavor/alcohol. As it is, you're probably looking at <3% alcohol. The second beer is going to have close to 10% alcohol and will not be the beer you think you're brewing. So no, recipes are not ok as is.

Have you not brewed either yet? It sounds like you have ONE bag of 6lbs DME, yes? Just roughly get it two bags of equal size, or at the very least brew the first one and try to get only half in the boil and save the other half. You'll want to err on the side of more DME in the Cream Ale since the wheat beer has significantly more DME in total.

 

[hercher]

Will both brews turn out decent based on what you're seeing here?

Yep. The cream ale should be fine. I'm a bit surprised you hit your target gravity given that you cut your DME in half, so it may be a bit thin. It should still be drinkable. The difference in the yeast is inconsequential.

You don't indicate what your target and actual OG's were in the Saison, but I'll guess that it is going to be a bit bigger than you intended. Even so, the difference won't be so big that it won't be an eminently refreshing beer. And again, the yeast profile won't be significantly different than you intended.

Relax. Have a homebrew. Then send me one.

 

[Germelli1]

How did you hit your OG on the first batch after omitting almost half of the fermentables?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Sorry, the OG on the Saison is supposed to be 1.065. I'm getting ready to brew that one. I've already done the Cream Ale so I suppose I'm screwed on that one.

 

[aomagman78]

Ok, whoops, didn't read. Sounds like you already brewed the first batch, yes?

I change my comment.

Sounds like you had 1 bag of 3lbs DME and 1 bag of 6lbs and used the wrong bag in the first recipe.

Most of my comment still holds. However, what you need to do is heat ~2cups or so of water and add roughly half the 6lb bag of DME to the water. If you need more water to dissolve it, so be it. Then bring that mixture to a boil for 5-10min to sanitize it. Let it cool to room temp and add it to the first batch.

Whether it's been 2 weeks or 2 days, the yeast in your primary fermenter will eat this new DME. But you now have to wait another week or so for it do to so and take hydro readings.

I'm a little confused how you achieved an OG of 1.052 with so little malt, that doesn't add up. It should've been more like 1.035-1.040.

Anyway, there's my long winded 2c

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

You're going to need more DME in the first batch if you want much flavor/alcohol. As it is, you're probably looking at <3% alcohol. The second beer is going to have close to 10% alcohol and will not be the beer you think you're brewing. So no, recipes are not ok as is.

Have you not brewed either yet? It sounds like you have ONE bag of 6lbs DME, yes? Just roughly get it two bags of equal size, or at the very least brew the first one and try to get only half in the boil and save the other half. You'll want to err on the side of more DME in the Cream Ale since the wheat beer has significantly more DME in total.

No, I had 6 lbs of DME and 3 lbs of DME and I mixed them up on accident in the madness of brew day. I've already brewed the Creme Ale and it's in primary. I did have some additives I put in with it such as alcohol boost, yeast nutrients, and eventually the vanilla beans. Anything I can do to improve that beer now? I'm guessing no...........

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Ok, whoops, didn't read. Sounds like you already brewed the first batch, yes?

I change my comment.

Sounds like you had 1 bag of 3lbs DME and 1 bag of 6lbs and used the wrong bag in the first recipe.

Most of my comment still holds. However, what you need to do is heat ~2cups or so of water and add roughly half the 6lb bag of DME to the water. If you need more water to dissolve it, so be it. Then bring that mixture to a boil for 5-10min to sanitize it. Let it cool to room temp and add it to the first batch.

Whether it's been 2 weeks or 2 days, the yeast in your primary fermenter will eat this new DME. But you now have to wait another week or so for it do to so and take hydro readings.

I'm a little confused how you achieved an OG of 1.052 with so little malt, that doesn't add up. It should've been more like 1.035-1.040.

Anyway, there's my long winded 2c

I know, I'm right there with you as far as the reading goes. Doesn't make much sense at all, but I did it twice and corrected it for temp.

So, if I understand you correctly, I should cut the current 6 lbs in roughly half as this is what should've went in the cream ale in the first place? That way I'm on with my Saison at 3 lbs? My primary has only been going for less than 24 hours...........any risk there opening it up and adding the DME?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Sucks...........I did try and do what you said, but unfortunately I burnt some of the DME in the bottom of the pan and while I was sturring it the cheap plastic spoon I was using melted on the end a little. So, rather than risk it I dumped that small amout of DME out. So at least my Saison will be correct as far as ingredients go. I'll risk it on the Cream Ale. RDWHAHB............

 

[Germelli1]

Ya, you don't want the scorched flavors in the nor the plastics! Hey its a cream ale, its meant to be light!

 

[mkm193]

Did you do a full boil with the cream ale? If not then that might explain why your reading was still within range. Often times with extract brewing and adding water into the primary you can get layering of the liquids before it blends which can throw off the reading.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Yeah, lol, I'll deal with it. As long as it has a good flavor I can deal with the thin or light mouthfeel. I don't care alot about the alcohol content. Just got the alcohol boost to give it a try.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Did you do a full boil with the cream ale? If not then that might explain why your reading was still within range. Often times with extract brewing and adding water into the primary you can get layering of the liquids before it blends which can throw off the reading.

Yep, 60 minute boil, I can't explain it either, but I know I'm reading it correctly and adjusting for temperature correctly. I also mixed the wort up real well before I took a reading and then pitched my yeast. I dumped it back-and-forth from the fermenter to my pot probably 4 times to aerate it real well and mix things up after I added a couple gallons of water. I guess we'll see what my reading is in a few weeks and if it's way off then I'll be prepared for it.

 

[Germelli1]

Full boil refers to the volume, as in you boiled all the wort without top off water needing to be added.

It is usually a problem with getting LOW gravity readings since the heavier wort fall to the bottom leaving less dense wort on top where the sample is collected.

Either way it sounds like you adequately mixed the wort! I would just let it ride and enjoy it when it is done!

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Oh, thanks for the info on the full boil. I started with 3 gallons and had to put in 3 at the end after I cooled the wort and mixed from there. I ended with just over 5 gallons. I've got to be doing something incorrectly somewhere.................can you quickly explain temperature adjustment to me? The way I know it is my wort was at 68 degrees when I took my reading as I planned on ferementing around that temperature or a little lower, it's at 66 right now. So I originally got a reading of 1.051 so I adjusted, according to what I know and using an app on my iphone to 1.052 due to the base temperature for readings is what................70 degrees?

 

[Germelli1]

Depends on what your hydrometer was calibrated for. Most of mine have been calibrated to 70, but I had one that was calibrated to 60. You should see it written on there somewhere, probably in near microscopic text

The science behind it is that water expands and contracts with temps, changing the density. So a reference temperature is used to callibrate the hydrometer from the beginning!

The best thing to do it get a jug of distilled water (which I use to mix up sanatizer anyway....they are $.60 a gallon) and see if your hydro reads 1.000 when it is near the temp it is callibrated for! If it is a little big off, its no big deal...just remember how much and adjust your readings accordingly.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Huh, mine IS calibrated for 60 degrees. Thanks for putting a wrinkle in my brain. I'll have to check it on the distilled water test and see where it rides.

 

[Germelli1]

Huh, mine IS calibrated for 60 degrees. Thanks for putting a wrinkle in my brain. I'll have to check it on the distilled water test and see where it rides.

Haha it just depends on the manufacturer. The distilled test, I don't worry about it...you use the difference in densities to calculate ABV anyway, so if it is off for one reading, it is off equally for the other.

AKA Don't worry about it Just correct your readings to 60 degrees!

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

So how much would that mess up my readings? According to the app I have on my phone it says not much, maybe 1 or 2 points?

 

[Germelli1]

Yeah it isn't much until you get to levels like mash temps for allgrain brewers, which i still stick in the fridge to cool a bit!

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Well, I'll have to stop making stupid mistakes that I know better than before I go to all-grain. lol

 

[Germelli1]

The only thing different is you "steep" grians longer and more controlled to form the mash...after the mash, everything is the same It really isn't as intimidating as people (myself included) think!

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I figured, it's just buying some different equipment and I'm not going to try that with the wife right now. She'd kill me if I'd ask right now.