Miter Corners for Collar Build - Seeking Help

[Jiffster]

I'm building my collar and I've ran into a snag.

The inner collar is 2x10 Douglass Fir that I've built using butt joints and brackets.

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While doing this I realized how sloppy and inaccurate my cheap, craigslist found slider miter saw is and I don't trust it to try to cut nice miters on 1x12 oak that I'll be wrapping the inner collar with.

Any suggestions on alternate ways to accomplish this?

I have a nice circular saw or I could get s new blade for the miter.

I don't want to spend $300 on anew saw.

Appreciate any help you can offer!

 

[matt2778]

Two things, first you can adjust the miter saw to get a more accurate cut, you will need a good combination square to do so though. If your 1x12 oak is cupped or twisted you will fight with it.

Second, you can make a good cut with a circular saw. Remember that you'll want to work from the inside though as it will tear out even with a good blade. You'll likely need to clamp a fence to your 1x12 offsetting the distance between the edge of the saw blade and the saw table. Make sure you support your stock well so that it neither dropps and breaks out your miter or binds your saw blade.

 

[TheGoatman]

Get a spare 2x4 piece, miter it with your saw and see how off it is. Can adjust it from there.could also get "L" oak trim and use that on the corners, will cover up any bad miter cuts.

 

[Jiffster]

Two things, first you can adjust the miter saw to get a more accurate cut, you will need a good combination square to do so though. If your 1x12 oak is cupped or twisted you will fight with it.

Second, you can make a good cut with a circular saw. Remember that you'll want to work from the inside though as it will tear out even with a good blade. You'll likely need to clamp a fence to your 1x12 offsetting the distance between the edge of the saw blade and the saw table. Make sure you support your stock well so that it neither dropps and breaks out your miter or binds your saw blade.

Thanks.

Get a spare 2x4 piece, miter it with your saw and see how off it is. Can adjust it from there.could also get "L" oak trim and use that on the corners, will cover up any bad miter cuts.

Thanks, I'll work on the saw and practice. I would prefer not to use trim. If I still had my table saw and dado blades I would make box joints. But that's all gone.

 

[itsnotrequired]

i didn't even fool around with miter joints on my finish boards:

kind of hard to see but i just used butt joints with the 1x12 finish oak and then used outside corner trim pieces to cover up the cut end of the joint. didn't even use nails, simply attached with wood glue and clamps. if you really get in on it, you can see what i did but from a distance, it looks clean. i didn't have the ability to cleanly miter 12" boards anyway, this approach seemed a lot simpler.

 

[flars]

i didn't even fool around with miter joints on my finish boards:

kind of hard to see but i just used butt joints with the 1x12 finish oak and then used outside corner trim pieces to cover up the cut end of the joint. didn't even use nails, simply attached with wood glue and clamps. if you really get in on it, you can see what i did but from a distance, it looks clean. i didn't have the ability to cleanly miter 12" boards anyway, this approach seemed a lot simpler.

Corner trim is the best solution if you are not working with dry lumber and don't have a planer to S-4-S the boards.

 

[Jiffster]

I guess I could cut miters and if they aren't satisfactory, use corner trim.

Honestly, I would prefer a good box joint or similar. I don't really want a sharp corner but I would prefer to not use trim. Just my preference.

 

[tracyk]

Yeah, it looks like your cut is off by about a degree, but you could change that on your miter saw. If the 2 x 10 is from the Big Box Stores I am pretty sure there is some torquing or warpage going on. It is hard to get a descent piece of wood from those stores. You could always use a sliding T-bevel to figure what angle you need. Or what about a half lap joint? You could manage this with your circular saw. Just change the depth of the saw blade. Practice on a piece of pine first. This way when looking at the keezer from the front one will not see the end grain. If you are going to stain it I also use a product put out be Minwax called wood conditioner, which goes on first, then put your stain on. This way the end grain and face grain will be the same color when stained.

 

[itsnotrequired]

i took some more photos of the trim:

the only 'ugly' spot is on the top but it isn't like i have my face in front of the keezer, staring down into its soul:

i didn't put trim on the rear of the keezer, this is where i will attach the temp probe, power for the interior recirc fan, etc. i put another trim piece on the corner though, just for symmetry sake:

 

[sebush3]

Before you give up on the miter saw check two things:

1. Do you have the right blade for finished miter cuts?
2. Is your blade sharp?

I just finished my build and after cutting the miters on the outer collar I noticed they weren't perfect. I couldn't figure out exactly where they were off until I put a square on the cut end and realized the cuts weren't square. I'm pretty sure the blade flexed and that's what caused my problems. I was using a compound miter saw that I borrowed from a friend that had a "standard" blade on it. It worked fine for standard cross cuts, but it struggled with the miters.

Keep in mind that you will probably be more critical of the corners than anyone else that sees your keezer. Mine went into service on Super Bowl Sunday and nobody looking at it even noticed the corners unless I pointed them out.

 

[idiotsinc]

When I retired I started a new hobby which my wife calls collecting woodworking tools. Even with pro quality equipment you still have to check their accuracy before starting. On really important cuts I mark the cuts first using a pencil and my combination square. Then I cut VERY slowly making sure I'm cutting on the lines and eliminating any flexing of my blade or wood.

 

[Jiffster]

Ok, I purchased new 2x10's from a lumber yard.... Better quality and would give me a chance to practice cutting some miters before cutting my 1x12 oak. Plus the miters corners would be a bit stronger.

I also purchased 9' of 1x12 red oak.

I purchased a new 60T blade for my circular saw.

I laid out everything very carefully and checked the angle on my circ saw to make sure it was 45. I used a straight edge as a fence and clamped everything down.

I thought it went well but when I put the frame together the miters were a bit off. See pics below.

Not sure what I could have done to make it turn out better. I'm a bit nervous about cutting the oak. I would like a tighter joint.

Any suggestions?

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[Jiffster]

Also, I decided not to try the muted saw. It has some surface rust on the sliding arm making it rough to slide and I just can't imagine this thing being accurate.

 

[flars]

You have a very clean cut with the blade you purchased. The saw isn't quite set up for a perfect 45° yet. Adjust the blade my making a cut. Flip one cut off end over and adjust the blade angle to eliminate the gap which will show between the two pieces.

 

[Jiffster]

You have a very clean cut with the blade you purchased. The saw isn't quite set up for a perfect 45° yet. Adjust the blade my making a cut. Flip one cut off end over and adjust the blade angle to eliminate the gap which will show between the two pieces.

I'm not 100% clear on your instructions.

 

[flars]

When one of the pieces is flipped over and moved up to the other cut piece there should be no gap showing if the blade angle is a perfect 45°. Picture whether the bottom of the blade needs to be moved either left or right to eliminate the gap.

 

[Jiffster]

I think I get what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think I may have a different issue now. The corners on the frame I built are close to 90 but not exactly. If I get my saw set up to cut 45's, the discrepancies in the frame will cause the miters to be off.

 

[flars]

I think I get what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think I may have a different issue now. The corners on the frame I built are close to 90 but not exactly. If I get my saw set up to cut 45's, the discrepancies in the frame will cause the miters to be off.

You're right. The blade has to be set as close to 90° as possible first. I was remiss in not saying this at first. The same method for setting the 45° angle can be used to get a 90° angle.

 

[matt2778]

One thing to keep in mind is your joinery. The small L brackets in the middle of board will not hold the miters tight. Even if you're able to get things perfectly aligned the joints will move, with mitered corners this quickly become apparent. As the wood drys further it will likely cup and shrink, the miters will open at the long points. I think you'd find you'd have a much nicer and sustainable project with pocket screwed and glued butt joint, maybe even leave 1/4" overhang as a detail or use the corner trim that was suggested earlier. You may have success biscuiting the mitered corner or using a shaper to do a locking mitered joint but then you get into some pricey tooling. Enjoy the keezer though, and good luck.

 

[Jiffster]

One thing to keep in mind is your joinery. The small L brackets in the middle of board will not hold the miters tight. Even if you're able to get things perfectly aligned the joints will move, with mitered corners this quickly become apparent. As the wood drys further it will likely cup and shrink, the miters will open at the long points. I think you'd find you'd have a much nicer and sustainable project with pocket screwed and glued butt joint, maybe even leave 1/4" overhang as a detail or use the corner trim that was suggested earlier. You may have success biscuiting the mitered corner or using a shaper to do a locking mitered joint but then you get into some pricey tooling. Enjoy the keezer though, and good luck.

Where were you 1week ago! LOL

I'm thinking this might give me the best results based on my abilities, tools and desired look.

I found this pocket tool jig that looks like it would work nicely.



I wished I had of done this with my last frame build now.

So, do you think I can salvage my frame build (the one with miter corners)?

 

[matt2778]

Those jigs work great, I'd recommend you get the one that's one level up, it has offsets for different wood thicknesses. You'll need to clamp it to the work piece but you don't need to spend $30 on the kreg clamp. When you do your assembly, clamp the pieces tightly before running the screws and you'll have a really tight finished joint.

 

[Jiffster]

Those jigs work great, I'd recommend you get the one that's one level up, it has offsets for different wood thicknesses. You'll need to clamp it to the work piece but you don't need to spend $30 on the kreg clamp. When you do your assembly, clamp the pieces tightly before running the screws and you'll have a really tight finished joint.

Would that be this one?

http://m.lowes.com/pd/Kreg-Pocket-H.../m.lowes.com/pd/Kreg-Pocket-Hole-Jig/1072743=

Can I use that on my mitered boards?

 

[matt2778]

That's the one, dont know that it can be used with mitered corners, at least I've never used one like that.

 

[glick]

As to cutting perfect miters... search youtube for how to make a shooting board. Your not going to get tight miters off of a machine, you're going to need to plane them by hand.

 

[idiotsinc]

That's the one, dont know that it can be used with mitered corners, at least I've never used one like that.

They can be made to be used with mitered corners but it would be a waste of time because it still wouldn't give you a nice you a tight corner. They're made for fastening 90 degree joints.

 

[idiotsinc]

As to cutting perfect miters... search youtube for how to make a shooting board. Your not going to get tight miters off of a machine, you're going to need to plane them by hand.

Good advice. I have a Dewalt compound miter saw with a $100 blade on it and have to work at getting an almost perfect miter on big boards. I find having lots of clamps on hand to pull things closer helps. On smaller trim I follow up with a miter blade trimmer. When I first learned woodworking around 50 years ago in 4H we cut miters with a handsaw and cleaned them up with a hand plane.

 

[John Paul Stoddard]

I gotta ask...
Are you using a Stand/support or having someone support the End of the board while cutting.

I find in near impossible to get perfect Miters when cutting alone and even with someone helping without a stand. Also it appears you might be 1/16 or so off on several cuts.

If the Board is not perfectly level with the Saw you get off. If your wanting perfect miters you will need a saw stand

Both ends of the Board needs to be supported and level

 

[Jiffster]

I'm using a circular saw to cut my miters. I have the boards on top of a table top supported by sawhorses. Then the board and fence is clamped down. Only about 6" or so of board extends from the table.

Not using my 2nd hand Harbor Freight compound sliding miter for the miters. To rickity.

 

[Jiffster]

Put the first frame (butt joint) back together with pocket hole screws instead of brackets. This baby is strong!

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