Miracle gro is amazing!

[humann_brewing]

Does the camo shirt come with the manure?

what camo shirt, I can't see it

 

[HalfPint]

what camo shirt, I can't see it

Rofl.

That almost makes me want to buy some camo coveralls.

 

[cheezydemon3]

The high nitrogen in miracle grow will inhibit fruit production in most things.

I would be surprised if hops produce as much if you keep applying the spurs when they are producing cones.

Bloom fertilizers have much less Nitro.

Common wissdom is: Nitrogen early (first 2 months or so) and then bloom orriented fertilizers from there.

 

[humann_brewing]

The high nitrogen in miracle grow will inhibit fruit production in most things.

I would be surprised if hops produce as much if you keep applying the spurs when they are producing cones.

Bloom fertilizers have much less Nitro.

Common wissdom is: Nitrogen early (first 2 months or so) and then bloom orriented fertilizers from there.

so what is the cone production fertilizer suggested for hops?

 

[cheezydemon3]

so what is the cone production fertilizer suggested for hops?

Honestly I need to find out!lol.

I had a generic BLOOM BOOST or something last year that I used.

 

[HalfPint]

what about bone meal? I think thats good at that point in time.

 

[humann_brewing]

after reading the OSU report someone posted yesterday, whatever has high potassium seems to be the right choice, it said that phosphorus was not as important though.

 

[Randar]

after reading the OSU report someone posted yesterday, whatever has high potassium seems to be the right choice, it said that phosphorus was not as important though.

Yep, high nitrogen during growth phase and potassium before and during cone formation and maturation phases.

 

[Randar]

what about bone meal? I think thats good at that point in time.

Bone meal is 4-10-0 or 4-12-0... phosphate isn't critical for hop yield compared to nitrogen and potassium.

Commercially people can use potash. I save my fireplace ashes from the winter and apply it once the bines reach mature height, but don't overdo it. This is probably the best source for the home grower.

 

[Weezknight]

Yep, high nitrogen during growth phase and potassium before and during cone formation and maturation phases.

How much Nitrogen? Is Organic Blood Meal too much? My shoots just broke ground, and I have some Blood Meal, but I can easily get Bone Meal, too.

 

[Randar]

Skip the Bone Meal. Urea is a great source of nitrogen, so is blood meal. Just don't go overboard.

 

[jjones17]

oh, and to the originator of this thread:

Everything you can do with synthetic fertilizer can be done organically. Just because you're not willing to learn how or that it may take more time and effort to do so does not mean it doesn't work and doesn't work well. The nutrients in natural composts and soil amendments are typically more stable and will feed your plants over a more sustained period of time, in addition to resulting in no chemical runoff. They also promote healthy insect and bacteria colonies that will provide better overall soil conditions and better resistance to harmful insect colonies through natural predation/colonies.

Additional points:
The chemical fertilizer companies (and many published articles about the 'uptake of plants') are very misleading. You only need a single type of fertilizer for most plant... 10-10-10 is nice becuase its a bit milder than 20-20-20. The reason for this is each plant uptakes nutrients and a static rate. I hope I am making sense here, but imagine a wet-vac. Its sucks up water at a steady rate. It does not matter if you are sucking up water frmo a 1 gallon bucket or a 5 gallon bucket... the rate of intake is always the same. This is the same with plants according to various studies. If I can find a link to such a study I will post it when I get home. Therefore, do not splurge on a high nitrogen fertilizer or other such thing.... el cheap-o 10-10-10 will do the trick in most cases.

Regarding the organic point, this uptake of nutrients is done more slowly with organic and there are MUCH more minerals and other non-reproducable compounds. Your plants will be sturdier, grow at a sustainable rate, and be much healthier using organic than JUST using chemical ferts. Now, if you have a GOOD soil analysis method you can give the plant everything it needs using chemical ferts and adding minerals and the rest of the compounds lacking in the soil (IE Magnesium, calcium, iron, etc) depending on your test results. However, if you can go organic it is better for the bugs.

 

[HalfPint]

Additional points:
The chemical fertilizer companies (and many published articles about the 'uptake of plants') are very misleading. You only need a single type of fertilizer for most plant... 10-10-10 is nice becuase its a bit milder than 20-20-20. The reason for this is each plant uptakes nutrients and a static rate. I hope I am making sense here, but imagine a wet-vac. Its sucks up water at a steady rate. It does not matter if you are sucking up water frmo a 1 gallon bucket or a 5 gallon bucket... the rate of intake is always the same. This is the same with plants according to various studies. If I can find a link to such a study I will post it when I get home. Therefore, do not splurge on a high nitrogen fertilizer or other such thing.... el cheap-o 10-10-10 will do the trick in most cases.

Regarding the organic point, this uptake of nutrients is done more slowly with organic and there are MUCH more minerals and other non-reproducable compounds. Your plants will be sturdier, grow at a sustainable rate, and be much healthier using organic than JUST using chemical ferts. Now, if you have a GOOD soil analysis method you can give the plant everything it needs using chemical ferts and adding minerals and the rest of the compounds lacking in the soil (IE Magnesium, calcium, iron, etc) depending on your test results. However, if you can go organic it is better for the bugs.

Got it.

Off of the top of your head do you know of a fertilizer with that ratio?

Thanks,
J

 

[beerocd]

what about bone meal? I think thats good at that point in time.

just thought I'd toss this out there... DOG FOOD. look at the main ingredient, you can get dog food way cheaper than bone meal. I tilled in a 50 lb bag into the garden this week. organic farmer told me about this.

 

[fineexampl]

FoxFarm FTW!! Yeah yeah yeah, it's organic but it's amazing. If you start with their Ocean Garden soil you won't need to feed them for the first few months! Then, when you're ready to feed them with FoxFarm nutes, you just mix them in with the water you give your plants. There are even several kinds so you can hit the exact N-P-K ratio you want depending on vegetative or flowering growth.

I don't trust Miracle Gro because I bought a bag of their soil that came with spider mites! 2-3 weeks after potting some plants it looked like the surface of the soil was moving! And apparently that's a kinda common occurrence from what I've heard/read. So no MG for me, thank you.

Sorry, just my $0.02

EDIT: It's also really cheap. 35# bag of Ocean Garden (which already has a great mixture of perlite in it so it drains really well) is only $12 at our local hydroponics store. The bottles of nutes are pretty cheap as well, going for roughly $12 as well.

Bless you, sir. You can tend my garden any day. All this talk of Miracle-Blo always bugs me. Chemical vs. natural fertilizer is just...meh.

(gardner throwing in 2 cents)

I am not organic, but i use organic ferts. seaweed...liquid fish...bat guano...fish bones and shrimp shells...mulch...and TONS of weak feedings. Also...used cofffee grounds!! High in nitrogen! Yeah Starbucks!

 

[HalfPint]

Alright, so what do you guys think of this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001OEIL02/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ?

 

[mattattack]

try this stuff here http://www.hydrowarehouse.com/earth-earth-bloom-booster-p-1823.html im using on my 1st years and they are already 1.5ft tall

 

[jmmarvel]

Chicken poop seems to be doing the trick for me.

I don't have chickens, so I decided to pop a squat in the back yard...
Anyone want to try my new hybrid brown hops?

 

[HalfPint]

I don't have chickens, so I decided to pop a squat in the back yard...
Anyone want to try my new hybrid brown hops?

Oh yes, add the aroma of "yesterdays lunch" to your beer.

 

[cheezydemon3]

one very mild fert may be OK, but high nitro can cause bud drop on my pepper plants.

they enter a vegetative growth phase rather than flowering.

this is good if they are young, fruit production at that point would leave you with tiny plants trying to produce 2-3 peppers.

Nitro when they are young causes them to grow big and healthy, so that when you pull back they spurrs, the produce hundreds of peppers.

Hops must have 2 phases too.

Vegetative growth, and then flowering with some subsequent growth.

+1 on organic being the best

 

[fineexampl]

one very mild fert may be OK, but high nitro can cause bud drop on my pepper plants.

they enter a vegetative growth phase rather than flowering.

this is good if they are young, fruit production at that point would leave you with tiny plants trying to produce 2-3 peppers.

Nitro when they are young causes them to grow big and healthy, so that when you pull back they spurrs, the produce hundreds of peppers.

Hops must have 2 phases too.

Vegetative growth, and then flowering with some subsequent growth.

+1 on organic being the best

Well said, sir!

 

[jjones17]

Got it.

Off of the top of your head do you know of a fertilizer with that ratio?

Thanks,
J

Actually nothing specific, however you will see it usually as the cheapest type in your big box stores. Ask for it... but be prepared to be amazed how many 'garden store employees' do not understand how plants uptake nutrients at the same rate. They will try to sell you some 'high phosphorous' or other crap that costs more but does not actually do anything different than that 10-10-10.

Another poster mentioned too much nitrogen. I concur that if you reduce your nitrogen the plant will stop growing big. however I never pull back on my tomatoes and I get 12-16 foot tall plants with thousands of tomatoes. Literally. I do not believe reducing your nitrogen casuses the plant to produce more flowers/fruit as long as there is not a potasium/phosphorous deficiency in the soil. I think a more stable less maintenence approach that works well for me would be fertilize with water solutble (if you must use chem ferts) at half strength, every 1-2 weeks. However, bear in mind this is just what works for me and I have the proper supports for HUGE plants and enough people around me that I can give away lots of homegrown food.

 

[Randar]

Hops must have 2 phases too.

I've not really seen it documented as such, but I have always assumed this to be the case. My tactics have been nitrogen-rich applications until they reach desired height and then potassium-rich feedings thereafter.

For potassium I like to use wood ash from my fireplace or outdoor firepit. Nice and cheap!

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I've not really seen it documented as such, but I have always assumed this to be the case. My tactics have been nitrogen-rich applications until they reach desired height and then potassium-rich feedings thereafter.

For potassium I like to use wood ash from my fireplace or outdoor firepit. Nice and cheap!

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/fg/fg79-e.pdf

 

[Randar]

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/fg/fg79-e.pdf

Well, I posted that link a few days ago, but I didn't see it delineate 2 phases clearly (in fact, the document never mentions the word "phase").

I do think the growth chart on the first page is wonderful, although the dates are only really useful in Willamette Valley (likely where OSU did this study)

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

It's in the body of the discussion. For example it states that Nitrogen uptake is in advance of dry matter production, etcetera, etcetera.

does specifically break it intphases but does discuss nutrient needs and times.

 

[Randar]

They show the uptake curve for Nitrogen, but not for potassium, probably because local soil is already very rich in K and it isn't a real concern for local production.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

My take is that a fert high in potassium is always needed. Low in phosphorous. stay high in Nitrogen until heavy in flower and leaf production.

Or, just use a balanced fert and be done.

 

[Randar]

My take is that a fert high in potassium is always needed. Low in phosphorous. stay high in Nitrogen until heavy in flower and leaf production.

Or, just use a balanced fert and be done.

Haha. The last part is probably good generic advice for most folks. Potassium is only needed if your soil is weak in K, but since it says there seems to be no difference in production from excess K, adding K (if you don't know your soil chemistry) is not likely to hurt anything (at least when it comes to hops)

Since most home growers don't know their soil chemistry, that seems to be a safe rule of thumb.

 

[Damonic]

Your local extension office should have soil testing kits. Usually the tests run about $20-25. Make your own compost, you'd be amazed at the amount of organic matter you throw away that could be made into wonderful compost for your hops or garden.

I think its already been mentioned but human urine mixed with wood ash makes a fantastic fertilizer. Couple notes, be sure to store the urine for at least 24 hours (most of any remaining pathogens will be digested or die) and you may want to dilute based on what you're using it on.

http://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-09/fertilizer-future-might-be-closer-we-think