Ministry and beer

[RedGuitar]

I'm in seminary and a candidate for ordination with the Methodist church. I just received word that I'm receiving an appointment as pastor at a small rural church in NC this upcoming summer. While I have no theological/moral complications with brewing, drinking and being a pastor, I'm wondering what the church I'll be pastoring might think.

Knowing that this is a forum for homebrewers, I'm not expecting anybody on here to have any objections to a minister who brews and drinks. My concern is what would all of your grandmas say about it.

And... discuss.

 

[bleme]

I am selective about who at church knows that I brew because it would be a stumbling block for some of them. My brewing partner is a fellow member at church though. Basically it is just our extended families that are aware of our hobby.

 

[DoubleAught]

I've never looked at drinking a beer or two as anything to judge a person by. I grew up a Lutheran and remember very well the pastors drinking beer at wedding receptions, no one ever judged that I was aware of. My brother is a Lutheran pastor as well and I know he doesn't have a problem with it either.

Now if they were out there chugging beer and acting a fool then there might be issues

 

[Grippe]

Methodist here (in Texas no less) - when I started brewing I approached my ministry team (at one of the larger UMC's) and all of them agreed that brewing beer and wine was to be encouraged, distilled spirits frowned upon, and that drinking to excess is 'the' problem to be guarded against.

Na zdraví!

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

As a Christian, and a homebrewer, I do not see any conflict at all. I think it will really be contingent on the actual congregation you get placed in. I know many churches and pastors who have no theological problem with brewing at all. I also know some churches have REAL issues with drinking any alcohol whatsoever.

I would suggest being discreet about your brewing until you have a feel for the environment. I am NOT suggesting you be untruthful or deceptive about it, but you may not want to advertise your hobby until you have a better grasp on the mood of the parish.

Just remember that many monasteries brew beer for the monks, and to sell as a source of operating income. Also remember that the Bible says "be not drunk on wine", it does not say "do not drink" In fact, Jesus turned water into wine. I think this shows pretty clearly that the Lord does not have a problem with the responsible manufacture and consumption of homebrew.

 

[bottlebomber]

The Bible does condemn drunkenness, but in no way does it discourage the moderate use of alcohol. Ps. 104:5 states that wine makes the heart of man rejoice. The first miracle of the son of God was in fact the wedding feast in which he made water into wine.
Some who have tried to twist the clear wording of the Bible have stated that it was actually grape juice that the Scriptures were referring to. Well, try packing grape juice around in the warm middle eastern weather and guess what it turns into... That's why in Matthew 9:17 it states that people do not put new wine into old wine skins - if they do then the wine skins burst and are ruined. Anyone who has fermented anything can understand this. A new wine is still likely undergoing fermentation, and an old brittle skin could split from the pressure.
Having said that, I am sensitive of the fact that some in the congregation are stumbled by what they perceive as excessive alcohol use - having 40 gallons of beer, etc. Because of this I am very selective who I would choose to share this information with. An overseer ought to be above reproach in his conduct.

 

[DrummerBoySeth]

Hey, RedGuitar, I just noticed you are in Raleigh... I live in Knightdale, but work in Raleigh. We could do a lunch or something, if you want to talk face-to-face about this...

 

[Ge_Lo]

No problems here...in Wilmington we've got the Front Street Brewery hosting a workshop entitled "What Would Jesus Brew?" It's a Homebrew 101 with some history and theology on the side...church based teams will compete...it's also a fundraiser for the Lower Cape Fear Hospice.

A great time of fellowship, with the hope that it will attract some of the unchurched!

Team : "Brew Unto Others" says .... Relax, don't worry, have a Homebrew.

 

[Brianyear]

Entering into a Pastoral Ministry with the UMC, I thought that I would share some thoughts on John Wesley, the church's founder.
This was taken from his latest biography:

"He [Wesley] wasn’t against alcohol, actually, unlike later Methodists. While he forbad spirits, he loved wine and beer, published home brewing tips and campaigned for real ale. He also allowed tobacco for medicinal purposes. But he discouraged Methodists from drinking tea, being a waste of time and money."

I just thought that this info could be useful in answering your OP. May God bless your ministry.

 

[matt99004]

No problems here either. I started a Men's Brewing Group at my church. We brew and provide beer (served at the church) for two fundraisers each year: Oktoberfest and St. Patrick's Day. It has been received surprisingly well by the congregation. We call it "Hops-Based Evangelism." Cheers!

 

[wailingguitar]

When I was working at Rogue some years ago, one of the other brewers was married to a UMC minister. I understand that she would help him with his homebrewing at times. I certainly know she would lift one or three, having spent time with her at company parties etc.

When I was attending a Christian Church/Disciples of Christ church in Birmingham, Alabama a few years ago, the minister enjoyed good beer.. though he was not well versed. He would have a particularly stressful day and give me a call "I need to have a beer with ma' buddy...". Turned him on to a few good breweries... one night that stands out in my mind was a quiet conversation at my house over a shared bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve, enjoyed out of my Chimay goblets. He really enjoyed hearing about Trappist monks, etc.

I am an ordained minister myself, though I rarely mention it or use my title. I don't preach in a church, but do grief and relationship counseling on a volunteer basis.

 

[dbreienrk1]

Isn't the fact that this conversation is going on a sign that organized religion is kind of weird? How can any person judge you for something that you enjoy? You aren't hurting anyone. You aren't breaking the law. And even if you were breaking the law brewing and drinking beer isn't immoral. Many things that are legal are immoral and many things that are illegal aren't immoral.

I don't want to start a huge fight over this because organized religion has some pluses. I think the real question should be, "what does God think about me brewing?" I'm pretty sure he's cool with it...

 

[bob1852]

Martin Luther threw a kegger when the Catholics kicked him out. That, Bach, and Händel justify the existence of Lutheranism.

 

[Phunhog]

I am pretty non-religous myself but my wife attends an Episcopal church. I have served homebrew at several church functions. In fact once a month during the summer they have something called "Messy Church". It is a church service that is basically an outdoor potluck with wine and beer. Nothing like attending a church service while drinking a beer!!

 

[rswear]

Well Jesus turned water into wine… that’s almost like home brewing….:fro:

My Dad was a Methodist Pastor. He did keep his occasional beer and wine drinking on the down low until he retired. Then he didn’t worry about it so much. I never did see him have more than one or two drinks at a time. I think he was more just trying to avoid stirring things up that didn't matter in the greater scheme of things.

In my opinion you should be honest and authentic to who you are and if home brewing is a part of it then so be it. It might be different if you were becoming a part of a church that forbid it, but you are not. I think you will find some of the grandmas will like you and some will not. Those who decide not to will find a reason no matter what you do or don’t do.

No problems here either. I started a Men's Brewing Group at my church. We brew and provide beer (served at the church) for two fundraisers each year: Oktoberfest and St. Patrick's Day. It has been received surprisingly well by the congregation. We call it "Hops-Based Evangelism." Cheers!

Now that sounds like my kind of church, too bad you are on the other end of the state from me.

 

[Frankiesurf]

Isn't the fact that this conversation is going on a sign that organized religion is kind of weird? How can any person judge you for something that you enjoy? You aren't hurting anyone. You aren't breaking the law. And even if you were breaking the law brewing and drinking beer isn't immoral. Many things that are legal are immoral and many things that are illegal aren't immoral.

+1!

I am basically an Atheist so I don't know if you will accept what I have to say.

I was brought up Roman Catholic and from what I understand, one of the worst offenses, religiously, is gluttony. Too much of something is bad for your soul. If you imbibe or brew with some reservation then you are good to go. Just the fact that you brew should not throw up the red flag. It is a hobby that is ages old and never harmed anyone that did not go over the top.

Far be it from me to speak of such things though. I haven't had an empty FV since I started brewing.:rockin:

If you are asking this question to a bunch of brewers in the first place, it sounds like you are feeling some guilt. Maybe not the right place to pose your validations.

 

[TarVolon]

I'm Presbyterian, and my community group alone has multiple homebrewers. But then again, you've probably heard all the Presbyterian jokes.

Two things are a little concerning about your situation. First, if I understand correctly, the Methodist church has a history of tee-totaling dating back forever. Wasn't it a Methodist who invented grape juice so they could take Eucharist without alcohol?

Second, rural NC is historically Baptist territory, and Baptists are also a historically tee-totaling denomination.

I wouldn't have any issue. My grandparents on either side wouldn't have issues. But then again, when the family gets together for Christmas, the Bloody Marys are out by 8 AM. Actually, my Uncle usually has a Coors Light by 8 AM as well. So perhaps I'm not a representative sample.

Where in NC, by the way? Western North Carolina is absolutely gorgeous. And the Triangle isn't half bad, although it's a little flat.

 

[iv_hokie12]

Isn't the fact that this conversation is going on a sign that organized religion is kind of weird? How can any person judge you for something that you enjoy? You aren't hurting anyone. You aren't breaking the law. And even if you were breaking the law brewing and drinking beer isn't immoral. Many things that are legal are immoral and many things that are illegal aren't immoral.

I don't want to start a huge fight over this because organized religion has some pluses. I think the real question should be, "what does God think about me brewing?" I'm pretty sure he's cool with it...

I don't have a problem with brewing and enjoying a tasty brew, however I can certainly understand why many church going folks would find drinking morally objectionable. Drinking is very much on the gray area as far as moral objectivity. For example, the Bible has many occasions where alcohol is mentioned in a positive light. However, when it mentions drunkenness it is always negative. We can almost all agree that one beer is responsible use, while hugging a toilet is drunkenness, but where exactly is the line where it crosses into being immoral? Its tough to say.

 

[tonyc318]

As a fellow minister and homebrewer I would agree with many things being said here. I love this hobby. It brings incredible satisfaction to create something that is so enjoyable. God put that enjoyment of creating in us. Just like everyone else has said, moderation and self control is the key for us in ministry. Im very lucky to be in a church where people are ok with alcohol. The other minister I work with is getting into making wine. But, not every church is like that (unfortunately). Feel it out. Pray about it.

 

[Ply318ci]

As a former youth pastor and a high science teacher at a Christian school I have had topics of alcohol brought up many times. Drinking is not a sin nor is brewing. As a pastor though you are held to a higher standard as such keeping the fact that you brew or even drink should be revealed very carefully due to the fact that many people in your congregation will be very offended by that. You are perfectly justified to do whatever you want but you are to led these people and not cause anyone to stumble. Romans 14:13-23 comes to mind although that is very often taken out of context and used by legalistic Christians to justify them telling others what to do (I have had this used against me for drinking). But you still need to be sensitive to the weaker people in your congregation. If it is not out of love it doesn't matter.

 

[tektonjp]

Although many have given you lots of 'ammunition' to defend yourself and your brewing, listen carefully to what some of the others have said as well. Even Wesley was 'down with it", likely many in your small congregation may not be. Keep it on the qt until you get a feel for the land. Especially as a newby pastor, you still have much to learn. Better to err on the humble side until you and your congregation feel at home with each other.
On the plus side, there is a depth of sermon material in brewing. Especially about if you think of yeast as the Spirit.
Also, get some of Charlie Bamforth's books. One of them is rather autobiographical. I can't remember the title off hand.. (just looked it up: Beer is proof god loves us).He's a brewing scholar of the highest degree and also a strong Episcopalian (same denomination of which I am a priest). Great reading and food for thought.
Blessings and peace, and Cheers!

 

[Brulosopher]

It's such concerns that concern me most...

 

[tennesseean_87]

Keep it on the qt until you get a feel for the land. Especially as a newby pastor, you still have much to learn. Better to err on the humble side until you and your congregation feel at home with each other.

Blessings and peace, and Cheers!

As a Presbyterian seminary student, I definitely don't have a problem with it, but as a former Southern Baptist from the South, I know where you are coming from. It was well pointed out that many Baptists and Methodists have some teetotaling baggage that most other Christians won't relate to. Because their concerns are so culturally ingrained, and their intentions most likely pure, if misguided, I'd be careful and humble about things. Just because Anglicans, Catholics, Presbyterians, and Lutherans find it acceptable does not mean that your congregation will, and the ministry is more important than beer. Paul had Timothy circumcised as an adult (ouch!) for the sake of such misguided people, so giving up brewing (or the public acknowledgement of it) may be the way to go once you have a feel for things.

 

[Homercidal]

I have no doubt that there will be some people in the congregation who would be disappointed in that you drink beer. Even in some of the "looser" churches there will be people who interpret the Bible incorrectly, or simply take the word on the church street that "Alcohol is bad!" Some may even have been down the dark road with alcohol themselves, either by being alcoholic or by being affected by someone who was.

Part of being a good person is being in control of your actions and words. I believe that is what the Bible refers to when talking about drunkeness. It doesn't forbid drinking at all, it forbids being drunk, which is in essence a way of saying you should not lose control of you ability to reason and control your actions and words, lest you make mistakes in judgement that could cause harm to others.

I'm not sure how you might approach a whole congregation. If I were to do it I would probably keep it on the QT initially, while not exactly hiding it. If anyone asks of course you might answer that in your judgement, it should not be a problem. It is an honorable hobby, and you don't encourage anyone to drink to excess. (I know Catholics who drink and claim all they have to do is to say a few hail Marys or whatever, but obviously you don't want to ENCOURAGE anyone to have to repent, right??)

There is a very rich history that goes with brewing. Maybe focus on that?

Your worst case scenario is when a certain person finds out and starts spreading gossip and opinion without discussing it first. Many good people think a Pastor should be Jesus incarnate and not have a single human trait. Good luck with those.

Oh yeah, and I've also heard more than a couple of jokes from Pastors about preaching while having a few. Makes it easier to stand up there in front of people, some of whom are there only to see if he "got it right...", rather than listening to what the message was really about.

 

[Lancer033]

i went to a southern baptist church as a kid, so alcohol was a no-go for them and my grandmother was very proud that alcohol had never crossed her lips. I always thought that was kind of stupid

As an adult, I'm an atheist, but i will say that some of the best beer I've had came from monasteries in Germany, so i figure if there is someone up there, he isn't complaining to much.

 

[Agent]

Though Lutheran, our pastor actually makes the communion wine. But this is also in a much younger parish than average.

 

[Homercidal]

I was raised Baptist and alcohol was a sin. As an adult when my mom found out that I drank beer she said she was "...disappointed to hear that."

Now she doesn't seem to mind if I have a glass of beer in my own house. I suppose all it took was seeing that beer doesn't consume your every thought and desire...

Also I was shocked to learn that my niece was taking swing dance lessons an hour and a half away. I thought dancing was a sin?? (they are still Baptist). I was told that some things have been re-interpreted...

 

[TyTanium]

Good insight from Homer. I agree. Alcohol is a source of pain in many people's lives, and they associate it with painful memories & experiences. So tread carefully.

Ideally, you'd be able to "reclaim" the gift of alcohol for God's intended purpose instead of the perverted image with which the world views it (and sadly lots of church-goers associate with it). Isn't that one of the roles of a pastor? To reclaim that which God has called good from the evil perversion of the world?

The Search for God and Guinness by Stephen Mansfield is a great book on Guinness' story, and includes a brief theological history on beer and brewing. Highly recommended.

Here are some quotes:
“The use of gifts of God cannot be wrong, if they are directed to the same purpose for which the Creator himself has created and destined them.” God has “made the earthly blessings for our benefit, and not for our harm.” “If we study…why he has created the various kinds of food, we shall find that it was his intention not only to provide for our needs, but likewise for our pleasure and for our delight…For, if this were not true, the Psalmist would not enumerate among the divine blessings “the wine that makes glad the heart of man…”

“Beer, well respected and rightly consumed, is a gift of God. It is one of his mysteries, which it was his delight to conceal and the glory of kings to search out. And men enjoy it to mark their days and celebrate their moments and stand with their brothers in the face of what life brings."

 

[teresalgl]

Catholicism has nothing against brewing...or drinking. I was born and raised in a pretty strict Catholic family -- went to mass every Sunday, didn't eat meat on Fridays, etc. My Grandma drank plenty of beer as did the rest of my family. I was at Mass a couple months ago and the new priest introduced himself by stating that he was a home brewer (he even mentioned that he was anxiously awaiting his St. Paul Porter to finish fermenting).

My Grandma (if she were alive today, bless her soul) would be proud of her grand-daughter the brewer and probably bring some of my home brew to church with her to share.

 

[spearko520]

convert to Catholicism and you can choose st augustine of hippo as your patron saint. i don't know if our opinions of morality and drink mean as much as what the flock may think- so as much as it would pain me to do so (i don't think i would ever be a priest though), i think the posts that make the most sense are the ones that advise you to proceed with caution. when in rome...