Dark Mild Mild Mannered Ale (AG) (E) UK/US

[frankjones]

St Pug. I did the batch.. I hit my numbers spot on while needing 18 ounces of top up water to reach SG of 1.038 in the two gallon batch I used ten grams of fuggle at 45 and then 15 minutes. It's been fermenting for 9 days. It's down to 1.018 I transferred it to secondary fermenter and going to let it go a few more days and let the temp raise to 70 degrees using safale o4. I hope that the transfer to the secondary was enough to get some yeast back into it.

 

[stpug]

Sounds like brewday went very well, and you're getting close to a reasonable FG for this beer. A couple more points and I think you'll be set. Even if it doesn't get there i think the beer will taste fairly balanced. Did you happen to sample any at racking?

 

[frankjones]

Not yet. Sample. I'm going to sample the hydrometer sample. It's in the fridge. But I will. Just trying to finish curbing up. I also bottled a batch of Aussie light ale from Midwest.

 

[frankjones]

Mental note. Next time I may use safale us o5. Do you think that will impact the flavor drastically?

 

[frankjones]

Oh OK now. The sample was delicious. I'm usually not impressed with the samples because of lack of carbonation. I really liked it... Now... I think I will get another batch together. I'd like to know how can I make this recipe at a little higher abv with out messing up the taste. The sample was great.

 

[stpug]

US05 would reduce how the yeast impacts the flavor of the beer, and it can be anywhere from drastic to minimal. IIRC, you used S04 so switching to US05 would reduce the yeast derived esters noticeably, BUT that doesn't mean it wouldn't still be a good beer - just slightly different. Plus the resulting beer would be much drier, buy higher in ABV too. I personally think a good British yeast contributes something to this beer that is needed. Using something as "clean" as US05 or Nottingham would not be my preference. In fact, the mild I have kegged (that I've only tasted a sample of) was fermented with Ringwood Ale yeast and my recollection says it's the best I've made so far. I think the the fruitier the British ale strain, the better for a mild, IMO.

If you want to increase the ABV without significantly affecting the flavor of the original recipe then make some MILD adjustments (pun intended ). Attenuate another point or two and increase the OG a point or two. For instance, for a 5 gallon batch, increase the base malt (maris otter) by half a pound and reduce the mash temperature by a degree or two. This would probably add an additional 0.5+% ABV. If you also switched up to a yeast strain that attenuates a little more (70% attenuation) then you'd go up another 0.5% ABV, at which point you'd be 1% ABV higher than your current beer. Things like that will get you where you want to go without changing the beer too much. Another option is to keep the recipe the exact same, just add about 6 oz of regular table sugar; this will up the OG by about 4 points and drive down the FG by a couple points - plus it will contribute no additional flavors which will keep the overall aspect of the beer about the same. It might reduce the body slightly and if you found that a detriment then you could add 0.25 lb of carapils/carafoam to the recipe to add back some body. Simple sugars (like table sugar and invert sugar) are not "out of style" for this style of beer.

Hope this helps.

 

[JKaranka]

What stpug says. Adding up to half a pound of one of the darker inverts or some flaked maize is completely within the style. Lots of old mild recipes are up to 15-20% simple-ish sugars.

 

[frankjones]

That sounds like the plan. The next time I was thinking adding 1/4 pound of flaked maize and 3 ounces of corn sugar. I LOVE the taste and do not want to change is.

Can someone suggest a liquid yeast that will get me where I want to go.. the 04 definitely delivers the flavors I like. I'd like to see the beer closer to 5% abv. But really want to keep this same taste.

 

[stpug]

Good Wyeast choices: 1968 (mashed low), 1318 (mashed high), 1469 (mashed low), 1187 (mashed mid)
Good White Lab choices: WLP002 (mashed low), WLP005 (mashed mid-high), WLP017 (mashed mid), WLP022 (mashed high)

Lots of good choices out there. 1968 is a classic choice but can leave it a little sweeter than expected (like S04) if you don't mash correctly and/or rouse the yeast; same goes for 1469. 1187 is a loveit/hateit strain; I love it. Some of the white labs are equivalents to wyeasts (wlp002 = 1968), but may have subtly different fermentation characteristics.

If I had to suggest one strain I would suggest 1968 or WLP002; just make sure to mash much lower and maybe even swirl up your fermenter after 2-3 days of fermenting using a sanitized spoon/cane. If you swirl it up then make sure there's still some fermentation left so that the gas CO2 production can clear the headspace of your fermenting vessel of oxygen.

 

[frankjones]

Good Wyeast choices: 1968 (mashed low), 1318 (mashed high), 1469 (mashed low), 1187 (mashed mid)
Good White Lab choices: WLP002 (mashed low), WLP005 (mashed mid-high), WLP017 (mashed mid), WLP022 (mashed high)

Lots of good choices out there. 1968 is a classic choice but can leave it a little sweeter than expected (like S04) if you don't mash correctly and/or rouse the yeast; same goes for 1469. 1187 is a loveit/hateit strain; I love it. Some of the white labs are equivalents to wyeasts (wlp002 = 1968), but may have subtly different fermentation characteristics.

If I had to suggest one strain I would suggest 1968 or WLP002; just make sure to mash much lower and maybe even swirl up your fermenter after 2-3 days of fermenting using a sanitized spoon/cane. If you swirl it up then make sure there's still some fermentation left so that the gas CO2 production can clear the headspace of your fermenting vessel of oxygen.

What temp would you say to mash with the 1968

Also the WLP 02

 

[frankjones]

If I used the 04 again and then after 3/4 days in the fermenter add a few grams more of the 04. would that be a reasonable way to get the beer down to where I want it?

 

[stpug]

What temp would you say to mash with the 1968

Also the WLP 02

152F should get you about to 70% attenuation, but it's somewhat system-dependent. That's probably about as low as I'd dare go without knowing how the strain worked for me. 153-154F to play it safe so you don't end up too thin-bodied.

 

[stpug]

If I used the 04 again and then after 3/4 days in the fermenter add a few grams more of the 04. would that be a reasonable way to get the beer down to where I want it?

No, based on the reading I've done that wouldn't be an effective way to drive down your FG. The problem is that adding "hibernating" dry yeast to a solution that's mostly void of an available food source (fermented beer), just wakes the cells up with enough time to flocclate and sink. You want energized and active yeast in order to drive down your FG, which is why rousing is often employed since it stirs A TON viable yeast back into solution (they can't swim) so they can get at the remaining sugars. Many times you also bring the temperature of the beer up into the low-mid 70s when rousing since the elevated temperature kind of vitalizes them for a little while. The elevated temperature late in the fermentation cycle does not impart any off characteristics, FYI.

The other option is creating a starter and pitching at high krausen to drive down a high FG, but I'm not a big fan of this method unless you have a ridiculously high FG. It takes a bunch of extra effort, extra time, extra money, and is better suited when your fermentation stalled halfway or less. In your case, you're just a one-to-two points away from a perfect FG, IMO. You don't want a mild to end so low, otherwise it'll come across very watery and thin.

 

[frankjones]

St pug! Thank you for taking time out to share your knowledge here on the board. I'm going to let the secondary rise to 74. And let it sit there for a few more days.

Also. I'm going to start working up a 3.5 gallon batch. With corn sugar and flaked maize. What percentage is suggested for the corn and corn sugar?

Thanks so much!

 

[JKaranka]

I brewed a pale ale with 20% flaked maize in summer and it was fine. I'd aim lower for the mild, around 5-10% of grist depending how dry and strong you want it. I'd also use a yeast with medium or even low attenuation (they all deal well with simple sugars), with high attenuation (over 73% or so) they can end up just too dry. Dry is also in style, though, as mild is a very broad church.

 

[frankjones]

I am doing 3.5 gallon batch this time.

I think I'm going to add 8 ounces more m/o
4 ounces corn sugar
4 ounces flaked corn

I think that should give me a little kick.

I really like the taste and balance. If I get 4.4 abv that will be good. I don't want to make any drastic changes.

 

[frankjones]

My other thought is.. What if when I pitch the yeast I use 4 grams 04. And 2 grams 05. And pitch them at the same time. Will that bring the fg down to 1.014/5

 

[frankjones]

St Pug, I gave the brew three more days @ 74 degrees. I checked my notes. It panned out like this:
11 days in primary it was at 1.o18
5 days in secondary no change
3 more days at 74 degrees. It still had no change.
3 days cold crash in fridge
I bottled it yesterday.
Finished up at 1.018

Thanks again.

 

[stpug]

On the corn/sugar amounts:
I think 5% sugar and 7-10% corn would be a reasonable place to start. They're both serving the same purpose with the exception that the corn can also add a little to the flavor.

On the yeast blend:
It's hard to say of the yeast blend will do that or not. I did a beer using a very low attenuating yeast (Mangrove Jack Newcastle Dark Ale yeast) and blended with US05 at a 75/25% ratio, respectively; for the same purpose you suggest (increased attenuation). What I ended up with was about 1-2% more attenuation; no where near the middle ground; not to mention the yeast characteristics became subdued. IMO, you'd be better served with a vial of yeast. Also, since your beer is such low gravity and low volume, I don't feel that you would need any kind of started as long as the vial is not near it's expiration date.

On your FG notes:
Sometimes there's nothing anyone can do to get a FG to drop a little more . Regardless, I bet those couple points actually help the beer in the flavor department. Let us know how it tastes.

 

[frankjones]

OK. I opened a 12 ounce bottle last night. It's been in the bottle five days. Shame on me. It was carbed up OK...

I really like this beer. I think I'm just going to leave it alone. I bought the good for another batch and I think I may do the batch exactly the way it is.

Maybe in the future I'd like to change the crystal a bit with another grain to get a bit more of a nutty taste.

What grain could I supplement or replace that I can get some nutty or roasted notes?

 

[stpug]

You could use Amber, Brown, Victory, Biscuit, Special Roast, Pale Chocolate - amongst others - to get you a nutty character (in moderate amounts 0.25-0.5 lb) and moderate roast character (in moderate-heavy amounts 0.75 lb). Victory and Biscuit might not get you to the "roasted" end of the spectrum. If I had to pick from those choices to meld well with this beer I would probably go Pale Chocolate at about 4-6 oz range; leaving the rest of the recipe the same (although, a yeast change-up might be nice).

 

[frankjones]

You could use Amber, Brown, Victory, Biscuit, Special Roast, Pale Chocolate - amongst others - to get you a nutty character (in moderate amounts 0.25-0.5 lb) and moderate roast character (in moderate-heavy amounts 0.75 lb). Victory and Biscuit might not get you to the "roasted" end of the spectrum. If I had to pick from those choices to meld well with this beer I would probably go Pale Chocolate at about 4-6 oz range; leaving the rest of the recipe the same (although, a yeast change-up might be nice).

I was eager to her this in... I followed the recipe to the letter.. Only think I did differently was the hops.. I put Golding at 45 minutes and fuggle at 20. I had a bit to much water so I did a 90 minute boil... I know what my pot looks like with 2.5 gals .. So I boiled longer.. This batch came out spot on.. No top up water needed. I wonder what the effect of the extra boil time will be? I am set up for 2.5 gal batch.

 

[frankjones]

OK folks. The final testing is in on both batches. I really like this beer. It's easy to drink. Tastes good.

I'm a bit confused. Thought my beer was flat.
Opened cold. Very little fizz.
Opened warm it gushes out if the bottle.

I carbed it at 1.5 volumes to stay true to the style.

 

[Avinatore]

I plan on brewing this soon. What do you guys think how's this beer going to be after 6 months in the bottles?

 

[ChelisHubby]

I plan on brewing this soon. What do you guys think how's this beer going to be after 6 months in the bottles?

It would be better the 2nd month than the 6th month, that said it will still be decent beer.

 

[chromakey]

I put down a half batch of this yesterday. My second BIAB attempt. Pretty much hit all the numbers. OG 1039

I used us05 as I couldn't get my hands on any Nottingham.

Really excited about this one.

 

[frankjones]

St pug, it's been a while since I have been on here. The mild was OK at three weeks but not great. At about six weeks I was very pleased with it. Really can't ask for a better outcome. It did take a full four weeks to carb up nicely. Patience and both batches just needed time. Thanks so much!

 

[frankjones]

Six months. Can't say. Right around 2.5 months and it's delicious.

 

[motobrewer]

12 days grain to glass - great beer!

 

[schia]

Hi all,

I'm planning to brew this recipe seeing that it has received so many fantastic review and honestly, it will be my first all grain. I'll be doing a 5L batch instead of 23L and do you think the conversion seems about right?