Might give up on homebrew :(

[mongoose33]

Maybe his extract is already hopped?

I don't know, but this sounds like an outdated way to make extract beer.

Perhaps it's already hopped, but wouldn't you still need to boil it to bring out the bittering?

I've understood boiling in part to sterilize all the elements of the wort, in addition to bringing out the bittering.

 

[kh54s10]

Sounds like really inexpensive beginner type Pre-Hopped extract kits. A quality extract kit with steeping grains and hops might make a big difference.

I would not go back to the tap water based solely on "Ottawa water is good" Try some other water and see if it makes a difference.
Without further details, I would look at fermentation temperatures this is often not covered well in kit instructions, making sure you are pitching the proper amount of health yeast cells, and research "oxidation" to see if you can spot anywhere in your processes this might be introduced.

 

[kombat]

The pre-hopped LME kits do not need to be boiled. They're sold in cans shaped like juice cans, and don't have any additional hops or anything to be added. They just need to be dissolved in (warm) water, then topped up with plain water, and the yeast pitched. They're very simple, and the flavour of the resulting beer reflects it.

 

[oujens]

I enjoy the process and I have spent a lot of time and money on this hobby but end of the day if I'm not fully satisfied with my end product it's a bit of a waste of time. I've been using my tap water and sometimes campden tablets. I think I'll try bottled water for my next batch to see if that makes a difference.

If you can, I would try RO water. Costs $.35 per gallon where I am at. That way your water is clean so you can eliminate water as the problem. I made the switch and noticed a lot of improvement. The biggest things that have helped me:

1) RO water
2) Mash pH
3) Controlling fermentation temp
4) Yeast Starter
5) Grain Mill (more consistent efficiency)

This hobby is a learning process and can require an investment of time and money. I share your frustration at times. My beer might not be perfect all the time, but I enjoy it. I have found that I am much harder on myself than I should be. I would recommend reviewing your process in these areas for improvement, and keep recipes simple until you are satisfied with the process.

 

[YeastMode]

I feel like this thread is become more of a "choose your own adventure" story than a "help me improve my beer" request. So far the following errors have been suggested:

Oxidation
Water quality
Fermentation temperatures out of range
Yeast pitch rate
Sanitation practices
Quality of ingredients

I can say with certainty that if you resolve any issues with all of the above, you will have a very good beer.

My suggestion at this point would be to start at zero and either take a beer class, read a book such as John Palmer's How to Brew, or take @kombat up on his offer (which is no small offer, BTW) and see what he says and learn his process. Absent that, I would recommend doing a few one gallon all-grain kits (like the ones sold from one of the fine sponsors of this site) and learn the process. Then apply those processes and good practice to your larger batches. I think that the issue you are having now is mostly due to the (a) process and (b) fermentation temperatures. Both of those will give you the issues you are describing.

Past this, you will need to provide more detailed information so that further help can be provided.

 

[TheCADJockey]

It could be aliens or temp control as well. Do you use temp control or just let put you FV in a closet or something somewhere?

 

[Zuljin]

Is it the same off flavor be it extract or AG? It could be water.

Cleaner or sanitizer could also be a cause. I was a fan of iodine and rinsing, and it didn't give me off flavors. I switched to Starsan because it was on sale one day. I still rinse, because I'm not brewing with Citarum river water, and I don't get off flavors from it, either.

 

[DreBourbon]

These extract kits are no boil pre hopped kits kinda like a Coopers kit. I've heard of people dry hopping or even dropping some hops in the primary. I might be buying the wrong kits. Lol

http://store.defalcowines.com/Beer-Kits/

 

[DreBourbon]

The pre-hopped LME kits do not need to be boiled. They're sold in cans shaped like juice cans, and don't have any additional hops or anything to be added. They just need to be dissolved in (warm) water, then topped up with plain water, and the yeast pitched. They're very simple, and the flavour of the resulting beer reflects it.

Agreed.

 

[DreBourbon]

All great advice and yes I do own Palmer 's book. I think I'm aiming for perfection off of the gate. I need to refine my skills.

 

[kh54s10]

Is it the same off flavor be it extract or AG? It could be water.

Cleaner or sanitizer could also be a cause. I was a fan of iodine and rinsing, and it didn't give me off flavors. I switched to Starsan because it was on sale one day. I still rinse, because I'm not brewing with Citarum river water, and I don't get off flavors from it, either.

If you rinse after using Starsan your equipment is no longer sanitary. It is now only as sanitary as the water you used to rinse and any contaminates that got to the equipment after it was rinsed.

 

[normonster]

I enjoy the process and I have spent a lot of time and money on this hobby but end of the day if I'm not fully satisfied with my end product it's a bit of a waste of time. I've been using my tap water and sometimes campden tablets. I think I'll try bottled water for my next batch to see if that makes a difference.

If you want to cover the bases, then you do have to do more than boil grain and hops in tap water and wait a week.

In all seriousness, buy Beersmith (setting up profile will be easy because you've had your system for over a year), get a fermentation chamber and a temp controller (read on temps and technique and keep the sh!t happy), get a gram scale, the proper chemicals and a pH meter and download Brew'n Water (again read stuff and learn how to use a pH meter and adjust your water). If you want to finish it up nicely, also get a used fridge and lager your beer for a month before you drink it (it will clear, and for some reason, it just tastes better, and not just a little bit better IMO).


It's really that simple. What you're doing now is like hittin the spank bank with a piece of sand paper on your hand.....lube your process and enjoy the results, all over.

 

[normonster]

And BTW if you wanna be rude and tell me to quit and or read more stuff @normonster, just don't reply. I'm asking for help not a wise ass remark. I'm sure you started off with little experience aswell.

See above post. Will you do those things? Of course not. That is why you got a smart-ass remark. Everyone wants their beer to be awesome but no one wants to sit down with a book and a pH meter or a stack of chemicals and a computer program and try to figure it out. If you did want to do that, you'd have found this information already as it is posted countless times in thousands of threads by hundreds of forum members. Everybody knows that temp control and water are paramount if you're going to try and achieve a truly awesome beer. If you can't buy those things mentioned above all at once, you have to prioritize. Step 1, temp control. Plus I'm a low quality human being.

 

[Moose_MI]

I'm going to share my secrets of being a happy homebrew'r. Now keep in mind I'm not saying that you must do this...and I'm not saying that can't find homebrew happiness with different approaches. I'm simply saying this is what makes me happy...

1. Share your beer with friends. If your friends are enjoying your homebrew and you're sitting there going "it tastes a little off" the problem is not your beer..its you. RDWHAHB
2. Don't try to clone beers...feel free to pay homage to a beer you like by trying to produce something that resembles it but forget about duplicating. It's more fun to drink your version of something than producing the very same product anyone gets from the corner store
3. See rule #1. Really...if your friends are enjoying it then you are a beer - God ... Revel in It. Stop beating yourself up
4. Only use liquid yeast..you can't make decent beer with dry yeast
5. Ha ha...got ya....dry yeast is fine as long as you rack to secondary after 1 week
6. Ha ha...got ya again...hater.... See what I mean..I'm having fun and so can you
7. See rule #1

 

[Zuljin]

If you rinse after using Starsan your equipment is no longer sanitary. It is now only as sanitary as the water you used to rinse and any contaminates that got to the equipment after it was rinsed.

I get that, and I'm fine with it. My tap water is pretty clean.

So is my air. It's not like I'm sanitizing the air in my kitchen or backyard. And my dogs, a scurry of squirrels, and at least one opossum all poop back there. And the birds! The birds, man! They poop right in the air!

 

[normonster]

....
5. Ha ha...got ya....dry yeast is fine as long as you rack to secondary after 1 week
...

Moose!!!!

 

[Zuljin]

< Almost always goes to secondary. Has even gone tertiary.

The argument here is, is it fermentation?

/battle stations!

 

[Moose_MI]

Moose!!!!

It was a joke..honest.

 

[eigua]

I've been brewing for about 1 year now and started off with extract kits and found they had a "funny" taste to them. Brewed about 20 of those before switching to all grains. I found I had better results with all grain but again not quite as good as my local brew pub or a commercial beer. I know I can't master the art of brewing in 1 year but I'm starting to think I'm either doing something wrong or maybe I have a "picky" pallet. Not sure. Any suggestions ?

Well, first off, let me say that I suck at making beer -- almost certainly worse than you. I've only done 5 batches over ~6 years: 3 extracts and 2 all grain, and all of them except the first have been a total mess in one way or another. There are just SOOOO many things that can go wrong.

My advice: If you enjoy homebrewing like I do but can't hack beer or are not interested in investing the time, money, and effort necessary to really perfect your process, try your hand at fruit wine, cider, mead, and/or rice wine instead. All of the above are a lot more forgiving than beer making IMO, and it will allow you to practice some of the common skills (sanitation, pitching, racking, bottling, etc.) without having to worry about as many variables. I'm not saying making a really great wine or mead is easy or any easier than making a really great beer, but it sure seems a lot easier to get at least something acceptable.

So even if you can't make great beer, you don't have to give up on homebrewing entirely if you enjoy it.

 

[normonster]

< Almost always goes to secondary. Has even gone tertiary.

The argument here is, is it fermentation?

/battle stations!

OMG!!!! haha. Tertiary. Next time someone post about secondary or not, I'm voting tertiary. If yer gunna do it, do it real gewd. HAHA

 

[Citizen86]

4. Only use liquid yeast..you can't make decent beer with dry yeast
5. Ha ha...got ya....dry yeast is fine as long as you rack to secondary after 1 week
6. Ha ha...got ya again...hater.... See what I mean..I'm having fun and so can you

Wow... I read #4 and was all ready to quote you right there and be like "You know what buddy...."

Then I read #5 and was like.... well... that's one opinion..

Then I read #6

Well played, good sir

 

[Moose_MI]

Wow... I read #4 and was all ready to quote you right there and be like "You know what buddy...."

Then I read #5 and was like.... well... that's one opinion..

Then I read #6

Well played, good sir

Thank you gracious sir!

 

[DreBourbon]

See above post. Will you do those things? Of course not. That is why you got a smart-ass remark. Everyone wants their beer to be awesome but no one wants to sit down with a book and a pH meter or a stack of chemicals and a computer program and try to figure it out. If you did want to do that, you'd have found this information already as it is posted countless times in thousands of threads by hundreds of forum members. Everybody knows that temp control and water are paramount if you're going to try and achieve a truly awesome beer. If you can't buy those things mentioned above all at once, you have to prioritize. Step 1, temp control. Plus I'm a low quality human being.

There's always one troll tough guy who ruins it for everyone. You probably make great beer but you drink it alone cause you're a ******.

 

[Zuljin]

Wow... I read #4 and was all ready to quote you right there and be like "You know what buddy...."

Then I read #5 and was like.... well... that's one opinion..

Then I read #6

Well played, good sir

I was ready to ninja star him with packs of Fermentis, but then I thought that might be his plan, because Fermentis rocks.

 

[CGish]

I enjoy the process and I have spent a lot of time and money on this hobby but end of the day if I'm not fully satisfied with my end product it's a bit of a waste of time. I've been using my tap water and sometimes campden tablets. I think I'll try bottled water for my next batch to see if that makes a difference.

This is the right direction, I think. RO water, the A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer thread, and precise fermentation temperature control are the first three things I would ask you about - after sanitation and general cleanliness of course.

Brewing good, stable beer is straightforward ... generally. Use good ingredients - including water - control mash and fermentation temperatures, and use good cleaning and sanitizing methods.

Mastering brewing takes much longer - perhaps a lifetime for some. However, basic good beer is not beyond the beginner if they read, learn, and use proper methods.

If you are using tap water, particularly if you are on city water, try an RO batch or two. And definitely control the temperatures of both mash and fermentation. I was not happy with my beer until I got these three factors - water, mash temp, and fermentation temp - under control.

Good Luck,
Cody

 

[bolus14]

I think the main ideas/processes have been touched on here. Sanitation/cleaning is more of the task than most expect it to be, make sure you don't lose you focus on that, but don't become to anal about it either.

Depending on the style your going for ferm temps can play a major role or not, Belgians can be a little more forgiving, if you can keep them temp in the mid to uppers 60's for the first few days then let it free rise your fine. Doing that with an IPA with the Chico strain isn't ideal, it'll work and make drinkable beer, but you'll likely get some of flavors.

Mastering is like mastering anything, is anybody really a master? Brewing beer is like cooking food, you might think you can make the best filet in the world, somebody with different tastes than you might think it's good or great but not the best. Homebrew because you want control of what YOU want not what others want. If others love it and can drink it all day, that's great for you, but everybody has different tastes don't forget this.

I have read many, many, many articles about water. Somebody on the west coast and somebody else on the East Coast of the US can make a beer following the same recipe. After it's brewed and fermented, assuming controlled ferm temps the beer will have some differences in taste if all the used is local water tha's available. Water is a HUGE part of the end product, so unless you know and can match the water profile of a beer you want to "clone" expect some differences in taste.

I'll be moving to a new house that whole house water filtration and RO water, will be interesting to learn what I need to change about the water to make a couple batches that I've been making for a few years now. Don't be overly critical, figure out what it is that you don't like in the beers you've made and focus on what thing at a time.

What styles are you trying to make, any links to recipes that you haven't been happy with? At the end of the day you need to be happy with what you're making. I find that buying some commercial beers is easier to figure out wat I want to make instead of making stuff myself, yes it's more expensive, but like most hobbies nobody will claim that home brewing will save you money.

If you want to make stouts let us know, if you're looking at IPA's let us know that, wheats, belgians, barrel aged, or chip soaked, pales, what ABV do you prefer, etc. There's a few aspects that play into all of those and over time you'll learn things that will help, what mas temps contribute to the end product, what the difference between first wort hopping does compared to normal 60 min additions, checking pH of your mash, darker styles need this checked more so that lighter styles. If you're not using dark malts and using tap water your likely fine, but still good to check to see where your're at and if you need to look into making changes.

A the end of the day if yo're getting frustrated and not happy with what you're making be willing to post what you did, the recipe, ferm temps, times, how you bottles/kegged, etc. Theres plent of people willing to help but you'll need to be able to layout your process if you want help.

 

[madscientist451]

These extract kits are no boil pre hopped kits kinda like a Coopers kit. I've heard of people dry hopping or even dropping some hops in the primary. I might be buying the wrong kits. Lol

http://store.defalcowines.com/Beer-Kits/

Two suggestions:
-Stop using kits of any kind. Instead, simply pick a style of beer you like,
look for a recipe here on HBT or elsewhere that has user comments, obtain the ingredients and a BIAB bag and go try that.
-Try a different water source. Buy "spring water" in jugs at the store or use
50/50 spring water and distilled.

 

[Pkrd]

I was ready to ninja star him with packs of Fermentis, but then I thought that might be his plan, because Fermentis rocks.

Don't forget to rehydrate those packs before you pitch.

 

[mongoose33]

Don't forget to rehydrate those packs before you pitch.

I don't--and it works just fine. S-04 takes off like a rocket and finishes in 3-5 days.

I brewed on Wednesday and as usual I just sprinkled the packet into the wort as normal. This was about 2pm. Nine hours later--11pm--I was getting airlock activity, and by morning I had a Krausen going. Today--Saturday morning--the krausen has dropped (that happened yesterday) and it's still bubbling along.

I'm planning on brewing my Rye beer tomorrow and for that I'll use a starter with WLP980.

Here's a Brulosophy exbeeriment comparing dry sprinkled versus reconstituted:

http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/15/sprinkled-vs-rehydrated-dry-yeast-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Yooper]

Let's stay on topic, and keep off topic and smart remarks out of it, shall we?

So for extract kits my process is fairly easy, clean then sanitize a carboy while my extract can is in hot water, dump the extract can into the carboy, add my fermentable (usually lme or sometimes dextrose ) then my water top up, rehidrate yeast and make sure pitching temp is correct as per yeast package and done. I will then wait a week before transferring to a secondary and then let it sit for about 1 month before kegging. My last few batches had a sour taste that seams to fade after time but should I really need to wait a few months before I can enjoy?

I NEVER made a decent beer out of those types of kits, and I'm a pretty decent brewer, so on that I'd blame the kit. The "sour" taste might come from a month in the fermenter with a big headspace, but most likely it's the yeast and simple sugar together with warm temperature fermentation. I'd forget those kits, and either do a regular extract kit with fresh extract (dry, not canned), hops, freshly crushed grains, and a good quality yeast.

As for all grain I usually buy a kit and follow their instructions to a T. I've had better beers with all grain but no significant difference in taste. Might be my water. We have very hard water here In Ottawa Ontario Canada.

I don't know the water in Ottawa, but my water here where I live tastes great but is not suited to brewing. It's hard, and high in bicarbonate. Something as simple as trying one batch with distilled or reverse osmosis water (NOT spring water or bottled drinking water) may be one way to check. Just for one batch, use distilled water. Pitch good quality yeast, and hold at 65 degrees for two weeks and then keg. If the beer still has an off flavor, you can look at brewing techniques. If not, you know it was the water.