Microwaved wort?

[fatmoose]

i take my health seriously, so i'd rather be safe than sorry...there is enough info and research on the subject to have steered me away from using microwaves...much of the info i've come across is contained in this rather comprehensive article...just a small snippet, discussing what an independent, non-profit group called Powerwatch has found:

Powerwatch appears to be a conglomeration of like minded whack jobs who fancy themselves to be involved with UK policy making. From the Powerwatch web site referring to microwaves: http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/rf/microwaves.asp

"Microwaves from the magnetron within the oven bombard the food, causing the molecules to rotate at the same frequency millions of times a second. "
Not so much rotation as vibration as I understand it, but ok, I'm with them here

"All this agitation creates molecular friction, which heats up the food. "
Pretty much what I understand

"Of all natural substances, the oxygen of water molecules reacts most sensitively."
Umm, this seems off to me, but I don't have a 100% solid understanding of the inner workings, so pass

"This is how microwave cooking heat is generated -- friction from this violence in water molecules."
Again, pretty much what I understand

"Structures of molecules are torn apart, molecules are forcefully deformed, and thus become impaired in quality."
Eh, what? We seem to have taken a quantum leap in logic at some point. Molecules being torn apart, really?

I pretty much gave up after that.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/18/microwave-hazards.aspx

This article looks to be a rehash of all the tripe that has circulated the internet for years regarding microwaves. The article I linked to previously does a good job of deconstructing these.

This is coming across as rather bullying and I apologize if I hurt feelings but there simply is no good science behind any of this and it frustrates me. This will be my last post on the topic.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

still waiting for that official government study to come out, damning microwaves?

the article cites real scientific studies...unfortunately, when the info isn't coming from certain "channels" some tend not to even consider it...

anyways...back to beer

 

[nostalgia]

super heating is a very hard phenomenon to create on accident. you need basically pure distilled water with almost no impurities to super heat it. the sugars dissolved in the water will provide more than ample surfaces for boiling to occur.

For the record, when I make tea at work in a glass cup with regular NJ tap water (and who knows what's in that mess ), it superheats every time I forget to put a straw in the glass.

When I drop my tea filter into the still-looking water, it instantly and violently boils.

Since I know it's coming, it's fun to show co-workers, but it does illustrate that you can easily have it happen in your home kitchen.

-Joe

 

[MeatyPortion]

Interesting but I'd never try it.

 

[SumnerH]

super heating is a very hard phenomenon to create on accident. you need basically pure distilled water with almost no impurities to super heat it. the sugars dissolved in the water will provide more than ample surfaces for boiling to occur.

My sister's exploded water in the microwave before. I have no idea if it was super heating or some other phenomenon, but it was a regular coffee mug full of tap water and it just went pow! and was all over the inside of the microwave, without having visibly boiled first.

Of course, she's also managed to light bread on fire in a microwave somehow, so maybe she's just talented...

 

[conpewter]

I don't use DME for starters anymore, so usually I just defrost the starter in the microwave and put it in the flask, then if that fits in your microwave you can boil like that. Mine currently doesn't, so I stick it on the stove.

My starter medium comes from the last batch or even one a while back. I save off the wort that is left over in tubing and in the hop trub, doesn't need to be sanitary since I boil it again later. I put it in a gallon freezer bag and freeze it.

 

[JOHN51277]

I still want to make microwaved beer! Just for the hell of it. Even if some whack jobs think it will cause my pee to glow!

 

[Kickass]

Brew, then enter all 4 bottles in a contest under BJCP catagory 23 and call it Chimichanga bitter!

 

[TokyoRoad]

i take my health seriously, so i'd rather be safe than sorry...

then why are you on a homebrewing site? Tinfoil hats anyone?

 

[shushikiary]

The absorption spectrum of most materials is VERY low at microwave frequencies. This is why WIFI signals pass through almost everything (they are around 2.4ghz normally), the exception being metals that make nice faraday cages.

When you change the electron orbits of any element by putting it into a bound state, such as H2O rather than just H or O you significantly change the absorption characteristics of the material. Water just happens to have a HANDY absorption of microwave frequencies right were its nice to absorb the energy and turn it into heat.

The spin of the atom is not significantly effected by E&M absorption, therefore their statement about spinning is FALSE. The vibration is moving back and fourth in 3 dimensions (think jump rope). The magnetic spin isnt effected either.

Sense pretty much all the other materials in food have an absorption at 2.4ghz ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE less than water it's not really possible for them to be heated to the point of breaking by microwaves. What tends to happen is you cooked the water inside to the point that the heat transfer inside the object grabs enough heat to "burn" parts of it and cause the chemical structure to change. The same thing happens when you leave it on the stove for too long. Correlation is not causation.

There arnt large amounts of people doing studies on this in the scientific community because it's about the same as wasting money trying to figure out if power lines increase the chance of cancer. The first basic steps in understanding how the idea works and how absorption works, along with some basic math to look at the voltages created at distance, etc, makes it sure beyond a reasonable doubt that power lines dont cause cancer, and microwaves dont cook your food in an unhealthy way unless you do something stupid like burn it (same as burning it on the stove).

The whole argument is on the level of tin foil hats to protect against radio waves and drives me up the wall. (My E&M professor (zoya popovic at CU boulder) for transmission lab, E&M 1 and 2, once fielded a call about power lines causing cancer and one about microwaves damaging food, so in class we went through the basic math to look at the plausibility of the idea.... it's really not plausible).

 

[DoctorDuvel]

then why are you on a homebrewing site? Tinfoil hats anyone?

well gee, thanks...i didn't realize that beer and the art of brewing was only for fat, unhealthy slobs

 

[DoctorDuvel]

The whole argument is on the level of tin foil hats to protect against radio waves and drives me up the wall. (My E&M professor (zoya popovic at CU boulder) for transmission lab, E&M 1 and 2, once fielded a call about power lines causing cancer and one about microwaves damaging food, so in class we went through the basic math to look at the plausibility of the idea.... it's really not plausible).

there are real educated scientists, in other universities for example, that take things beyond exploring and implementing basic math...they actually study effects from microwaves, and their findings are much different than yours...jussayin...luckily, people are curious enough to not rely on math alone

ps - we've definitely gotten off topic from OP...sorry...if you wanna microwave your wort, try it and let us know how it went

 

[JOHN51277]

I may consider getting one of those WunDerBrew thingys. What the hell, why not?

 

[DoctorDuvel]

that did look very interesting...that guy in the vid seemed a little nervous, he shoulda had a homebrew beforehand...didn't he say they have a 10 gallon version er something?

 

[JOHN51277]

that did look very interesting...that guy in the vid seemed a little nervous, he shoulda had a homebrew beforehand...didn't he say they have a 10 gallon version er something?

Yeah, I think they mentioned 1, 2.5, 5, and 10 gallon!

 

[DoctorDuvel]

i just watched the video again - he said 20 gallons!!...think i have to hear that one more time...

and how do you fit 5+ gallons in the microwave?...guess i'll go look at the website

 

[JOHN51277]

I guess you microwave 2 gallons at a time 10 times. Damn that would take 10 hours if they are 60 min boils!

 

[TokyoRoad]

well gee, thanks...i didn't realize that beer and the art of brewing was only for fat, unhealthy slobs

You said you take your health seriously; alcohol can be seen as detrimental to your health. Just looking for some consistency in your actions, or pointing out your hypocrisy.

 

[FunkytownBrewyard]

I may consider getting one of those WunDerBrew thingys. What the hell, why not?

get after it, jj! i will fully support you from a safe distance. i want to see you make a SuperHeater DIPA!

-stan

 

[fatmoose]

You said you take your health seriously; alcohol can be seen as detrimental to your health. Just looking for some consistency in your actions, or pointing out your hypocrisy.

While I take exceptions with the arguments made regarding microwaves it seems perfectly consistent to brew your own as a health conscious individual. There are arguments that there are health benefits to moderate consumption of alcohol. If you brew your own you can be fairly certain of what you've got in there, similar to making your own dinner from scratch as opposed to picking up take-out or popping a box in the microwave (shouldn't have brought that up again).

 

[Synovia]

there are real educated scientists, in other universities for example, that take things beyond exploring and implementing basic math...they actually study effects from microwaves, and their findings are much different than yours...jussayin...luckily, people are curious enough to not rely on math alone

ps - we've definitely gotten off topic from OP...sorry...if you wanna microwave your wort, try it and let us know how it went

Nothing that you've posted involves science or scientists. There is no valid research.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

You said you take your health seriously; alcohol can be seen as detrimental to your health. Just looking for some consistency in your actions, or pointing out your hypocrisy.

what fatmoose said

moderate beer consumption can still have a place in a healthy life style...just like wine...understood?

and not only consumption...when you become passionate about an art, such as beer making, it is definitely beneficial to one's general health and well-being

so maybe it is you who are in the wrong forum if you still think beer is a slobbish, crotch-scratching topic

 

[DoctorDuvel]

Nothing that you've posted involves science or scientists. There is no valid research.

that is total bullsh*t

there is "valid" (an exclusionary term) research...just look for it...some is cited in the link i posted

 

[gtpro]

that is total bullsh*t

there is "valid" (an exclusionary term) research...just look for it...some is cited in the link i posted

I'm sorry you're running into so much negativity here, because this is a pretty friendly website, but you sound like some crotchety old man who keeps the blinds drawn and refusing anything that you deem to be "new fangled."

Microwaves destroying the health benefits of food? Creating carcinogenic substances? Get a grip!

Microwaves use radiation at a certain wavelength and frequency to transfer energy to water and other polar molecules within the food, they in turn transfer energy to the rest of the food, BAM! theres your hot pocket.

In the science lab I work at, we even use a microwave to melt agarose media that we then use to culture sensitive microbes, they seem fine.

If I knew you I would chase you around the house with my kenmore until I peed my pants.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

I'm sorry you're running into so much negativity here, because this is a pretty friendly website, but you sound like some crotchety old man who keeps the blinds drawn and refusing anything that you deem to be "new fangled."

Microwaves destroying the health benefits of food? Creating carcinogenic substances? Get a grip!

Microwaves use radiation at a certain wavelength and frequency to transfer energy to water and other polar molecules within the food, they in turn transfer energy to the rest of the food, BAM! theres your hot pocket.

In the science lab I work at, we even use a microwave to melt agarose media that we then use to culture sensitive microbes, they seem fine.

If I knew you I would chase you around the house with my kenmore until I peed my pants.

i don't see where you mentioned you did your own experiment and analyzed food after putting it in a microwave...

such big people some of you are to make personal attacks when information is presented which may differ from your line of beliefs...i would expect these sorts of responses in a debate about religion

 

[TokyoRoad]

so maybe it is you who are in the wrong forum if you still think beer is a slobbish, crotch-scratching topic

My English may not be perfect, but I don't see how anyone could get that from what I said.

I saw tinfoil on sale to make hats.

 

[JJL]

As I was browsing that physicist's site I found this article on the potential hazard of boiling water in the microwave: http://www.howeverythingworks.org/page1.php?QNum=1576. I'd not consider this a call to alarm over using the microwave for this purpose but it's interesting reading and probably good information to keep in mind. Of course I've boiled water in the microwave for numerous purposes without anything more than a mild scalding due to my carelessness.

I saw a mythbusters episode that tested this. They were only able to get exploding water by using distilled water. Everything else they tried had enough minerals or impurities to cause a boil.

 

[DoctorDuvel]

My English may not be perfect, but I don't see how anyone could get that from what I said.

I saw tinfoil on sale to make hats.

whatever...go make some beer