Vienna Lager Mexican Lager

[mggray87]

No need to change your mashing process. When you ‘pull the bag’ and you’re letting it drain, just chuck the FWH into the kettle. When I used to BIAB, I would start applying the heat to the wort as soon as I pulled the grain bag out of the wort. This is when I’d toss in the FWH. Doing FWH is separate from the mashing as well as ‘mash hopping’.

I meant I never done a step mash like increasing the time. That part is new to me. Do I raise temp. And start the time as soon as it reaches the next step or do I include the rising temp time as the time in next step?
I may make no sense right now

 

[jdubdvdt]

I meant I never done a step mash like increasing the time. That part is new to me. Do I raise temp. And start the time as soon as it reaches the next step or do I include the rising temp time as the time in next step?
I may make no sense right now

I will just make assumptions that since RIMS is not a "step" it is a "ramp" from Temp A to Temp B and would imagine the way it was written that you could were not supposed to include the rising time to get from Temp A to Temp B. Especially if it takes more than 10-15 minutes. EDIT: I will say I am not an expert in this, but it does seem like the listed time for the beta rest seem excessive at 60 minutes, so maybe that is meant to be including the ramp?

If your system only took 5 minutes to get from Temp A to Temp B - I would probably say it wouldn't make much of a difference either way, but considering our systems vary and larger "steps" might need more time - probably start the timer after it reaches the Temp B setting.

This is my guess (in italic)
Dough In: 131 F 15 min (grains in, set timer for 15 minutes)
Ramp to 150 F 60 min (ramp complete, set timer for 60 minutes)
Ramp to 160 F 15 min (ramp complete, set timer for 15 minutes)
Mash Out 168 F 10 min, (ramp complete, set timer for 10 minutes)

If anyone else has any comments regarding this that would be great. I am considering making this lager.

 

[Broothru]

I will just make assumptions that since RIMS is not a "step" it is a "ramp" from Temp A to Temp B and would imagine the way it was written that you could were not supposed to include the rising time to get from Temp A to Temp B. Especially if it takes more than 10-15 minutes.

If your system only took 5 minutes to get from Temp A to Temp B - I would probably say it wouldn't make much of a difference either way, but considering our systems vary and larger "steps" might need more time - probably start the timer after it reaches the Temp B setting.

This is my guess (in italic)
Dough In: 131 F 15 min (grains in, set timer for 15 minutes)
Ramp to 150 F 60 min (ramp complete, set timer for 60 minutes)
Ramp to 160 F 15 min (ramp complete, set timer for 15 minutes)
Mash Out 168 F 10 min, (ramp complete, set timer for 10 minutes)

If anyone else has any comments regarding this that would be great. I am considering making this lager.

The beta and alpha enzymes are ‘active’ at those temperatures, though not necessarily at their peak levels of conversion. Above 160F alpha will begin to denature, and both beta and alpha will be pretty much gone at 168F.

Your step profile looks pretty good, but I like to perform beta rest @ 145~148F and alpha rest @ 154~158F. Each of those temperature ranges capture the optimum for enzymatic activity for each enzyme. In fact IIRC, beta is already active (barely) at 131F and doesn’t denature until 161F, though it’s not doing much conversion at either of those extremes.

 

[jdubdvdt]

The beta and alpha enzymes are ‘active’ at those temperatures, though not necessarily at their peak levels of conversion. Above 160F alpha will begin to denature, and both beta and alpha will be pretty much gone at 168F.

Your step profile looks pretty good, but I like to perform beta rest @ 145~148F and alpha rest @ 154~158F. Each of those temperature ranges capture the optimum for enzymatic activity for each enzyme. In fact IIRC, beta is already active (barely) at 131F and doesn’t denature until 161F, though it’s not doing much conversion at either of those extremes.

In the book by John Palmer "How To Brew" they show an American Style Lager with the mash schedule as follows:

Dough In: 122F 20 min (grains in, set timer for 20 minutes)
Beta Rest: 145F 30 min (ramp complete, set timer for 30 minutes)
Alpha Rest: 158F 30 min (ramp complete, set timer for 30 minutes)
Mash Out: 170 F 10 min, (ramp complete, set timer for 10 minutes)

I presume the earlier numbers I mentioned from the OP might be excessive rest times contributing to a prolonged brew day. Do you think you need the extra time at each rest? I can't imagine you have much to gain after 30 minutes. If so, I would probably consider doing something similar myself to the one from John Palmer. I will be honest - I never really messed around with figuring out step mashing since most ales are cool with hitting somewhere between 152-154F Single infusion.

Thanks

 

[Broothru]

In the book by John Palmer "How To Brew" they show an American Style Lager with the mash schedule as follows:

Dough In: 122F 20 min (grains in, set timer for 20 minutes)
Beta Rest: 145F 30 min (ramp complete, set timer for 30 minutes)
Alpha Rest: 158F 30 min (ramp complete, set timer for 30 minutes)
Mash Out: 170 F 10 min, (ramp complete, set timer for 10 minutes)

I presume the earlier numbers I mentioned from the OP might be excessive rest times contributing to a prolonged brew day. Do you think you need the extra time at each rest? I can't imagine you have much to gain after 30 minutes. If so, I would probably consider doing something similar myself to the one from John Palmer. I will be honest - I never really messed around with figuring out step mashing since most ales are cool with hitting somewhere between 152-154F Single infusion.

Thanks

Yeah, you’re probably good at :30 minutes rest at beta and alpha. As I mentioned, you’re already getting some beta conversion at 131F (really don’t need to start mash in any lower than that with today’s modern malts).

I do 30/30 beta/alpha. My mash in is at 131F, and I dough-in the grains about a pound at a time and stir with a mash paddle (about 10-15 mins total), then start the temperature rise to 145F and then start the clock, so my beta test ends up being 45-50 minutes. Then I start the rise to 158F and hack the clock when I get to that temp (about 7-10 minutes to rise 13 degrees F). So alpha is more like :40-:45 minutes. I get complete conversion with those times and temps.